Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121568074#Comment_121568074

ta

Hey boy

TT

I answered your question but since it was oversimplified one cannot answer simply yes or no.

In Gaza the “resistance” is Hamas so you did and you are.

I presume the reason I can’t quote you is because you blocked me. Hopeless. Happy to ‘debate’ until meets a different opinion.

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121568412#Comment_121568412

There are posts today denying the rapes and calling them Israeli propaganda. Also someone said Israel were "blood letting" earlier, it's what reminded my of all the times similar terms were used. It's a very specific kind of language used by many in relation to Israel isnt it?

Frank Grimes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121568576#Comment_121568576

I saw one poster today trying to deny the rapes claiming lack of evidence which is abhorrent given there is evidence but you appear to be trying to present this as par for the course which it clearly isn't. I didn't see any reference to blood letting so I can't comment on that.

Donald Trump

What's with the prurient fascination with rapes from three months ago such that they are still the most immediately pressing item compared to say tens of thousand of innocent civilians and kids that have been killed since then, or the hundreds that will be killed over the next week?

Nobody is saying that they should every be forgotten about, but how long are people going to remain so fascinated by them that they refuse to see other crimes and tragedies since then?

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121568315#Comment_121568315

Given the horrifying situation Israel's people are in, I can forgive a little dark humour.

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121568237#Comment_121568237

lol just cant help but be outraged at something can ya.

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121568315#Comment_121568315

dont i ?

but you get to dictate the opinions and voice of anyone who doesn't agree with you ? strange that

who said support any one ? i just think medieval style rape and pillage should be frowned upon , i assumed must people would but i guess pretending that it didnt happen and that the dirty jews made it all up eh ? made up all that evidence and proof too , the sneaky semites

cj maxx

Israel is using up a lot of good will , as is the US by bombing the hell out of Palistine . It reminds my of tora bora . Bomb the fcuk out of them and it will be grand

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121568907#Comment_121568907

"dont i ?"

No, you dont

"but you get to dictate the opinions and voice of anyone who doesn't agree with you ? strange that"

No, I get to voice my opinions when I disagree with yours.

"i just think medieval style rape and pillage should be frowned upon"

Cool, care to show your posts of outrage about the IDF doing this because if you haven't said anything then that would make you a massive hypocrite.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121567776#Comment_121567776

Haaretz dodgy. Get up the yard, they're not. But your BDS blinders won't let you see that.

More than an enquiry, data presented including to world leads as the article mentioned. Presented at various forums, oh and the investigation continues.

Hamas advertised their 'acts'. You probably have links to them on your telegraph feeds.

Admit you LIED and move on.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121568640#Comment_121568640

"

Nobody is saying that they should every be forgotten about, but how long are people going to remain so fascinated by them that they refuse to see other crimes and tragedies since then?"

oh, I don't know. At least one new user denies them. It's the only reason this subject came up recently. Refuses to acknowledge they occurred even despite lots of presented evidence. Stop denying them, they won't be brought up.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121568985#Comment_121568985

I see an awful lot more of the same three or 4 posters continually claiming other posters are denying them rather than other posters actually denying them.

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121568952#Comment_121568952

No.

No doubt the poster will reply for himself but no poster, including you, replies to every post on boards or comments on every crime or incident. What would make him, or anyone else, a massive hypocrite is if he condemns rape by one side but not by the other but, with respect, he is not required to have made a prior post just because you deem it necessary.

In the meantime some posters throughout this thread have sought to cast doubt on whether the Hamas rapes occurred or not. I note that is not you but you might want to start scanning for hypocrites in that direction.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121569097#Comment_121569097

It's weirdly similar to techniques of Holocaust denial and its refutation. The best refutations of "The Nazis didn't do that!" are the Nazi's own documentation and information. Likewise the Hamasniks denying that Hamas raped; videos and posts by Hamas aren't proof enough... Just use Hamas's own words(videos) against that type. Eventually they give it up, though it might take time.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121568640#Comment_121568640

It's weird how it gets stuck in peoples minds. I don't know if it's just something that gets stuck there because what happened to those women is horrific or because it's just something they want to use as propaganda.

I will say that the Israeli government have been terrible with providing evidence of it happening. I've read enough to know that it almost certainly happened. For crimes that occurred, there's a really shoddy investigation. Victims buried without proper autopsies, lack of forensic/DNA evidence etc... In Ukraine they have whole teams dedicated to treating every rape as a crime so that they can build criminal cases and give proof to the world. In Israel they seem not to care about any of that stuff.

And so for people who want evidence, there's very little and it casts doubt. Israel has lied about stuff in the past, the use of white phosphorus for example. And they constantly demonise the Palestinian people. So there are some people who question everything they say. There's a lot of witness testimony so to say that they're all lying brings it into conspiracy theory land but at the same time, when there's a lack of forensic evidence, then it's hard to say the extent of what happened.

Timberrrrrrrr

And again we have the IDF doing what they do best (after killing innocent children)

https://twitter.com/BeckettUnite/status/1742839311479820375?t=s2GFwkIWvfa0_LbwTrh02g&s=19

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121568830#Comment_121568830

It's a bit different for Israelis who live/lived near the Gaza or Lebanese borders. The Iron Dome system does indeed provide some safety for people in Tel Aviv, but even there, they have to have bomb shelters every 100 metres or so.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121569788#Comment_121569788

ah well then. Given that the Israelis have bomb shelters (which they don't need due to being able to intercept what's coming in) their predicaments must be far greater than the Gazans who don't have them - even though their entire neighbourhoods are being literally obliterated

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121569802#Comment_121569802

The poster was talking about Tel Aviv, which is somewhat more secure because it is further from enemy territory. It's a different story for Israelis living close to the Hamas or Hezbollah borders.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121569811#Comment_121569811

Ah, so your concern is for some people who willing stay in an area that might come under some attack, rather than those caged in a small area who are defenceless against rockets and missiles actually raining down on them.

How are them poor Israelis fixed for food and water? Is there any of the much needed humanitarian aid getting through to them (while they drink wine sitting on their porches and enjoy the show of neighbourhoods being obliterated a few miles away across the fence they control)

An article from the last "war" against Gaza

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/israelis-cheer-gaza-bombing

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121569834#Comment_121569834

Well if the Gazans didn't like it they could have overthrown Hamas. You know, the government of the territory that is constantly attacking Israel? They've had 20 years and 2 or 3 wars since 2004 to change their minds about supporting Hamas. And unlike the Israelis who had to flee their homes near the borders, nobody in Israel is stopping the Gazans from leaving. Others maybe though.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121569957#Comment_121569957

I'm with you SeanW. You have all these posters going on and on about the civilians and kids being blown to pieces in Gaza, yet none of them ever consider the poor IDF soldier sitting in his base hundreds of miles from Gaza, developing repetitive strain injury from having to hit the "launch" button over and over and over again.

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570003#Comment_121570003

Like I said, different story if one lives in Sderot, Ashkelon or Kiryat Shmona. But nobody in Israel forced Gazans to support Hamas for 20 years, and nobody in Israel is stopping them from leaving.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570029#Comment_121570029

I know. And people on here are calling all those civilians and kids innocent just because many of them were born after the last election. Don't those posters realise the seriousness of RSI? Those kids are literally forcing those poor soldiers to repeatedly bomb the sh1t out of them. The kids know perfectly well that by existing, they are giving the soldiers no other option

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121569802#Comment_121569802

If Gazans don't have bomb shelters, maybe they should ask Hamas to let them use some of those tunnels? Or better yet, to attribute a tiny proportion of the concrete that was intended for the tunnels to build a pile of small bunkers around the place. You know, like the British did in WW2.

Oh but wait - Hamas don't want to protect their own people. They want as many Palestinian deaths as possible, for propaganda purposes.

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570043#Comment_121570043

No, it's Hamas that's giving Israel no choice. And Hamas couldn't have stayed in power without at least some popular support. And Israel is not stopping Gazans from leaving.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570003#Comment_121570003

You don't seem to have much knowledge of this war, do you?

The whole zone around Gaza has been evacuated, leaving food to rot in the fields, and traumatised children unable to attend their schools and so on. Many IDF soldiers on the ground have died too.

So I don't know what the above comment means.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121569132#Comment_121569132

Sigh...

"

I will say that the Israeli government have been terrible with providing evidence of it happening. I've read enough to know that it almost certainly happened. For crimes that occurred, there's a really shoddy investigation. Victims buried without proper autopsies, lack of forensic/DNA evidence etc... In Ukraine they have whole teams dedicated to treating every rape as a crime so that they can build criminal cases and give proof to the world. In Israel they seem not to care about any of that stuff."

What's happening is explained in detail in the link I repeatedly post yet no one seems to read. Israel cares plenty about what happened. The UN, maybe not, but that's an aside.

Have a read, then see if you can correct your statement I've quoted: (https://archive.is/RIfq0)

FWIW archive seemingly being very slow right now. Original article:

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-30/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/hamas-campaign-of-rape-against-israeli-women-is-revealed-testimony-after-testimony/0000018c-2144-da36-a1de-6767dac90000

Just found this, same subject matter, but in video form:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88gFNVwz8ps

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570100#Comment_121570100

Just how are the people in Gaza (non dual citizens etc...) supposed to leave Gaza?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570078#Comment_121570078

I know. And all the whingers going on about how "bad" Russia was for bombing the theatre in Mariupol that time always avoid addressing the issue of why they never asked the Nazi regime in Kyiv to let them into the tunnels at the Azovstal either.

Don't they know that it was Zelensky's fault, not the people that actually bombed it?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570102#Comment_121570102

You need to stop deflecting from the RSI issue.

combat14

An airstrike on the logistical support headquarters of an Iran-backed militia in central Baghdad Thursday killed a high-ranking militia commander, militia officials said, as tension continued to rise across the region. The prime minister’s office in Iraq said that the US-led international coalition bore responsibility for an “unjustified” attack on an Iraqi security force. Reuters reports the office said: “The attack is a dangerous escalation and a violation of Iraq’s sovereignty.”

(The Gaurdian UK)

looks like the americans are still chipping away at the iranians in response to their terrorist actions in yemen, red sea, syria, lebanon etc.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121569957#Comment_121569957

By the same logic, Israel could have not funded Hamas all those years ago and instead bent their minds towards negotiating a two-state solution...

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570177#Comment_121570177

Yes, Israel may have made some serious strategic errors in the 1990s and early 2000s in that regard. And Israel's people have the right to ask their government some serious questions.

But for the last 15-odd years it's been Iran that's been pulling the strings with regard to both Hamas and Hezbollah.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570029#Comment_121570029

I lived in Ashkelon - bedroom was a bomb shelter. I believe all homes had to have a bomb protected room. Might have applied to Tel Aviv too. And that was before Iron Dome.

Exactly how many Israelis in Sderot, Ashkelon or even Tel Aviv have died since 7th October due to Hamas activity/rockets?

Contrast that with Gaza where 22,000 civilians have died so far. And as for Israel providing "safe" areas for the protection of civilians:

"We're hearing more now from people in al-Mawasi, which, as we mentioned in our last post, is a small area on the southern coast of Gaza where a blast has killed at least 14 Palestinians - and which Israel has previously promoted as a safe area."

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67879726?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=6596ac1198b40e4897f59bb4%26%27Wherever%20you%20go%20in%20Gaza%2C%20there%20are%20strikes%27%262024-01-04T13%3A14%3A49.401Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:55319433-886f-4d1c-b614-1e225b7fc65b&pinned_post_asset_id=6596ac1198b40e4897f59bb4&pinned_post_type=share

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570124#Comment_121570124

Umm, they were sheltering in the theatre, which was believed to be robust enough to be suitable. And was a purely civilian building, unlike Azovstal which was known to be deemed a military target by the Russians.

The fact that Russians then committed a direct hit on civilian infrastructure is very different from Hamas' refusal over 20 years to build any sort of refuge buildings, above or below ground, for their citizens, while constructing a massive tunnel complex for military purposes, at least partly funded using UN aid money.

I think that you know this, but are so far down the antisemitic rabbit hole of your support for Hamas that you can't allow yourself to see that.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570177#Comment_121570177

With this in mind quite a few of the Israeli politicians in the current Government would be quite happy to see a variant of Hamas emerge after this war in order to maintain the status quo. The last thing they want is moderates governing in Gaza.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570232#Comment_121570232

Israelis who were not killed since the 7th October of course - and probably the remaining hostages if they are still alive.

Interesting use of the word "may"...

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570233#Comment_121570233

It's sort of fascinating, in a rather odd way, that you seem to think that Israel's attempts to protect its citizens by making the construction of bomb shelters a legal obligation, somehow reflects badly on Israel, as opposed to Hamas which has never made any effort to make its citizens' lives better or safer, and has even said that the safety of Gazan civilians was not their main goal, but rather the destruction of Israel.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570264#Comment_121570264

Hmm.

Children in Gaza obliterated in their houses by a missile - well that's not Israel's fault. It's Hamas fault because Hamas have tunnels and they wouldn't let the civilians into them.

Children in Mariupol obliterated in a theatre by a missile - well that's not Russia fault. It's Azovs fault because the Azovs had tunnels and they wouldn't let the civilians into them.

Seems perfectly analagous. Apart from the fact that the Gazans are in residential houses whereas the Russians could try to claim some (implausible) deniability that the building was being used as a military building.

Brown people are people too volchitsa.

Rezident

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570294#Comment_121570294

And after Hamas kills all the Jews in Israel, "from the river to the sea", as is their aim, who will protect Muslim women in the Middle East from "honour killings' and all of the other unspeakable atrocities we know the Palestinians committed against women on October 7th?

Who will protect Arab "collaborators" from being killed? Who will protect Palestinian homosexuals from being murdered?

I don't think they have thought this through, have they?

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570433#Comment_121570433

No it’s Hamas’ fault for attacking civilians including babies on Oct 7th and threatening to carry out more such attacks until Israel no longer exists.

Yoir attempt to make my position out to be a racist one is ironic. Hamas commit pogroms against Jews.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570520#Comment_121570520

I know. People forget about the real victims of the conflict. All this RSI from repeatedly hitting the "launch" buttons.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570232#Comment_121570232

It was only 5 years ago Israel was bringing Hamas suitcases of money from Qatar.

The Palestinian people may have voted for Hamas back in 2006, but there's no arguing that Israel helped support Hamas and help keep them in power up to at least 2018.

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570433#Comment_121570433

I suppose in your view Hamas bears no blame - despite being the government of Gaza - for constantly attacking Israel and giving it legitimate cause for war? That seems to be the common view among Israel's detractors, that Hamas (and the Gazans who supported them for 20 years) are totally blameless and Israel is acting in a vacuum.

And IIRC towards the end of the siege of Mariupol, civilians did seek shelter in Azovstal steel works. There was never any issue there.

And Ukraine had not attacked Russia. Another big difference.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570752#Comment_121570752

I'm consistent SeanW. You've convinced me that Israel bears no responsibility at all for making the unilateral decisions to target civilian areas with missile strikes. The reason being that some other lads had some tunnels. The same as Russia bears no responsibility at all for making the unilateral decision to target a theatre full of kids with missile strikes. With the same reason being that some other lads had some tunnels.

Trying to do mental gymnastics to achieve the cognitive dissonance to say that one is grand whereas the other is terrible is beyond my ability at this stage. I need some more teaching first.

Welcome to the twilight zone.

scottser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570029#Comment_121570029

Israel funded and supported Hamas against Fatah.

How Israel Secretly Propped Up Hamas - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

Your blind support of Israel is remarkable in light of their genocide of Gazan civilians. 'Leave Gaza or die' is not a choice that Israel is justified to offer anyone - we'll see what The Hague says about it next week.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570745#Comment_121570745

So? Even assuming Israel was actually funding Hamas (which they weren’t - they were simply letting money from Qatar through), would this somehow justify Hamas murdering Israeli women and children?

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570788#Comment_121570788

Warning, sarcasm ahead: Yes, you've convinced me that Israel is literally acting unilaterally in a vacuum. And that Russia was really the victim after all because Ukraine spent the last 20 years attacking Russians and murdering Russian civilians inside Russia. It really must suck living in Russia having to have bomb shelters because of Ukraine's long standing and repeatedly expressed intent to exterminate all Russian people. Oh wait, this is all BS.

In reality, the "mental gymnastics" are coming from those who compare Russia with Israel, as if the two had anything whatsoever in common.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570789#Comment_121570789

Fatah aren't exactly angels either: they run (or at least used run) a "Pay for Slay" program that ironically was being subsidised by the Americans.