Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653681#Comment_121653681

Well it seems to be an odd religion that denies empathy, pity and any form of respect.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653765#Comment_121653765

The irony of anyone being amused at all by the current situation...

You might think you're being smart, but you're not. Unless of course you believe Haaretz is a Hamas mouthpiece.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653681#Comment_121653681

In your opinion of course...

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653929#Comment_121653929

1/10 on the antisemitism scale. Gotta raise your game

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653890#Comment_121653890

Hamas did NOT start this war. They escalated it. The Israelis were always treating the Palestinians poorly and were guilty of many murders before Hamas escalated the 'war'. And nobody is backing or supporting Hamas in any way, they are murdering tyrants and so are the IDF. There is loads of evidence to support that.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653952#Comment_121653952

Ah the go to retort when cornered.

dmcdona

A common theme here is to accuse of posters who are against genocide and war crimes of a variety of positions when cornered or when simply unable to put a cogent, sourced argument together. And of course, the justifications for war crimes and genocide.

"Anti-Semite"; "Hamas Propagandist"; "Existential threat"; "Human shields"; "Hamas started it"; ""but the rapes"; "WWII was worse"; "cannon fodder";

"human shields"; "the tunnels"; "they had weapons"; "it was proportional"; "they voted for Hamas"

Even the moderate Israeli press don't justify any of this - they report on the horror perpetrated on Gaza and the West Bank. Israelis citizens are horrified too. They are not Hamas propagandists - just human beings with a conscience. Pro Israeli posters here should let that sink in.

The ICJ will undoubtedly weigh in soon enough and the world will know what the World Court's judgment is. The ICC will issue its verdicts too.

We will be told if Israel has been disproportional or if it has committed genocide - or not.

Until then, the usual posters will continue to show their support for genocide and war crimes either actively or passively.

dmcdona

IDF accused of using poison gas

Source: Haaretz

On December 14, the Israel Defense Forces recovered from a tunnel in Jabalya the bodies of three Israelis who had been abducted to the Gaza Strip on October 7 – soldiers Ron Sherman and Nick Beiser, and Elia Toledano, a civilian. About a month later, the army gave their families the pathology report and a report on how the bodies were found. These raise tough and troubling questions that require explanations and public exposure.

These questions were raised in all their gravity by Dr. Maayan Sherman, Ron's mother, who is a veterinarian. In a Facebook post, she accused the IDF of killing her son when it pumped poison gas into the tunnel in which the hostages were held and served as "human shields" for Ahmed Ghandour, a senior Hamas commander.

"The inquiry's findings: Ron was indeed murdered," she wrote. "Not by Hamas … not by stray bullets and not in an exchange of fire. This was deliberate murder. Bombing with poison gas … Oh yes, and they found that Ron also had several crushed fingers, apparently due to his desperate attempts to escape the poison grave."

Her son, she continued, "was abducted due to the criminal negligence of all the senior figures in the army and this rotten government, who gave the order to kill him to settle a score with some bloodthirsty, but also really stupid, terrorist named Ghandour from Jabalya."

dmcdona

IDF Lt. Col. makes unverified claims

Source: Haaretz

In an interview on the Israeli Channel 14, a senior Israeli army officer made unverified claims regarding the identity of some of the victims of the Hamas October 7 assault on Kibbutz Be'eri.

The officer, Lt. Col. Guy Basson, deputy commander of the Kfir Brigade, claimed that eight infants were murdered in the communal nursery, and that an Auschwitz survivor called Genia was also murdered. These incidents described in the interview, which aired on Saturday night, never happened.

Speaking to Channel 14's Erel Segal, Basson said: "We get to Kibbutz Be'eri, and I'm confronted with two main scenarios. One was from the children's nursery… where they were simply slaughtered and murdered." Segal asked him in response," Did you see the children inside…?" to which Basson replies: "A house. Eight babies, eight dead babies."

Basson later added: "Another image that stuck with me is Genia, of blessed memory, an elderly woman from Kibbutz Be'eri. "I see the number engraved on her arm, and you say to yourself, she went through the Holocaust in Auschwitz and ended up dying on Kibbutz Be'eri."

Findings indicate that there is no Holocaust survivor named Genia in Be'eri, and as far as is known, no one by that name ever lived on the kibbutz. Additionally, none of the victims of the Be'eri massacre were Holocaust survivors.

Regarding the claim that eight babies were murdered in a kibbutz nursery, to this day there is no known case in any of the surrounding communities where children from several families were murdered together. In Kibbutz Be'eri, one baby, Mila Cohen, 10 months old, was murdered on October 7, along with her father, Ohad.

Basson also spoke about the fighting in Be'eri. "I fired tank shells at terrorists inside the kibbutz," he said. When asked to comment on the fact that Division 99 commander, Brig. Gen. Barak Hiram, ordered a tank to fire at a house where hostages were being held, he said: "As someone who was there and saw things from up close, there was no disproportionate or indiscriminate fire. We only did so after trying to exhaust every avenue that does not harm our forces… it's an honor to wear a uniform and protect our residents."

A Kibbutz Be'eri spokesperson rejected the claims, and said, "Nearly one hundred people were murdered on Kibbutz Be'eri, and the community suffered hundreds of heartbreaking incidents on that Black Saturday and over the past months, especially regarding the hostages. However, incidents such as eight murdered babies and a murdered Holocaust survivor named Genia – did not happen."

An IDF spokesperson said, "The events in question will be investigated and examined. There was no intention to describe a reality that didn't happen, and we apologize if anyone was offended. We will set the record straight and clarify to all commanders involved in the media effort."

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653964#Comment_121653964

Calling as I see it. You slagged an entire religion. What would you call that? Bigotry? Satisfied?

TokTik

https://twitter.com/MOSSADil/status/1728771182822838450?s=20

Aren't these these the 4 “young teenage women” Israel is telling the world have been kidnapped by Hamas?? Seems like they’re experienced soldiers. Strangely they never mention that they are IDF.

scottser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653681#Comment_121653681

Jewish people believe that they were chosen by God to be 'a light unto the nations' but their government believes that they can murder their way to salvation without being accountable to anyone. A great example to other nations, I'm sure you'll agree.

The sooner Israel is brought to heel, the safer the world will be.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121654198#Comment_121654198

See, this bit here shows that you're no longer even making an attempt to sound objective:

"A common theme here is to accuse of posters who are against genocide and war crimes"

Cos anyone who disagrees with you supports genocide and war crimes? FFS

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121654408#Comment_121654408

I slagged their silence at Palestinian suffering. It is a 'general' silence as I can't canvass every Jew to see how they feel and obviously there is a fair proportion of them against this mass killing/murder of Palestinians. Are those against the war also antisimitic too?

dmcdona

...

https://m.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-783119

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121654914#Comment_121654914

Weaseling now. You slagged the religion. Own it.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121654926#Comment_121654926

No the point stands. And you didn't address it.

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121654914#Comment_121654914

"against the war" ... the alternative to war is trying to co-exist with Hamas, who want the Israelis dead. Doesn't seem like a particularly good idea if you want Israel to continue existing.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121654970#Comment_121654970

So what is your solution? Continue to slaughter innocents?

SeanW

You can't co-exist with people who want you dead - and Hamas have made it abundantly clear that's what they want for the Jews.

My solution is for Israel to exterminate Hamas/PIJ, hopefully minimising civilian casualties as they go, and then look at some kind of Palestinian self-rule afterwards. Like what happened with Nazi Germany. The Allies did what they had to do to annihilate the Nazis, then Germany was rebuilt with self-governance (less so in the case of East Germany).

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121654970#Comment_121654970

And the Israelis are actually killing Palestinians - 11,000 children so far.

Seems you're happy that they no longer continue to exist.

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121655013#Comment_121655013

War sucks. If the only alternative is that Israel has to try to appease or co-exist with Hamas, then so be it.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121655011#Comment_121655011

"Hopefully"?

Your solution is genocide.

Busted flush.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121655011#Comment_121655011

Do you acknowledge Israelis want the Palestinians dead?

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121655011#Comment_121655011

Well they are also exterminating far too many civilians and creating even more fodder for Hamas's ranks so that won't work. They cannot wipe out Hamas. For all we know the vast majority of Hamas have escaped.

I can see a UN force operating in Gaza for a few years before a new government is put in place and then for a few years afterwards. Both sides will have to eventually co-exist.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121655048#Comment_121655048

.....

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121655053#Comment_121655053

Well if you have in-depth military expertise and can plan a military response with less collateral damage that what Israel is doing currently, you should let the Israelis know as they could probably use an qualified armchair general.

As to whether an Israel and a Palestine can co-exist, I certainly hope so. But Israel has to protect itself in the meantime.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121655079#Comment_121655079

Why does there need to be a military response when there is no military solution?

Do you acknowledge the Israelis want the Palestinians dead?

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121655079#Comment_121655079

Full house!

"collateral damage"

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121655090#Comment_121655090

"No military solution" ... so they have to try to appease Hamas? I'm sure there were those who said there was "no military solution" to the problems in Europe from 1939-1945, and there are those supposed "peace" activists who favour throwing Ukraine under the bus to Putler today. But it wasn't true then and it isn't true today.

As to your second question, no. Israel wants the same thing it has wanted since 1947 - to exist.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121655049#Comment_121655049

No, they want Hamas dead. The problem is that some Israelis believe that Hamas are massively popular among Palestinian civilians in general, and also want all Jews dead. The people spitting on the desecrated corpse of a young German-Israeli woman in Gaza on Oct 7th and shouting Allahu-Akbar were not Hamas members, so there's some evidence for that, TBF.

And the Palestinians concerned (not all Hamas members by any means) do all want "the Jews" dead. If you have any doubt on that score, all you have to do is look at some of the children's school shows and so on that are on Youtube, from Gaza or from the West Bank (from way before Oct 7th) where the kids are taught to want to kill Jews.

Here's Palestinian children's TV from 2020: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=741479389733542

More examples (compiled after Oct 7th but most of the clips are from before that date): https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=3399430967036903

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121655079#Comment_121655079

They wouldn't take the advice Sean. They seem to prefer what they're doing.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121655119#Comment_121655119

So you're not acknowledging reality,

And I guess you never heard of 'regime change,' the only solution is not a military one.

Likud (who very much wants Palestine to not exist, and for Palestinians to not exist), has been propping up Hamas for decades, as a useful idiot for slowly eradicating Palestine and Palestinians.

If they actually gave Palestinian civilians equal rights and protections like the right of return, Hamas would have no attraction for Palestinians, they would not exist, they would have nothing to recruit on. ten thousand dead kids is on the contrary a prolific recruitment tool for terrorism, (it's terrorism itself) as we now see with the Taliban, Houthis, Hezbollah, etc. all becoming far more politically and kinetically active again, gee go figure.

Best of luck to you.

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121655150#Comment_121655150

Really? If you have the expert in-depth knowledge of how to plan and fight a war and achieve an objective with dramatically less civilian casualties, I think the IDF would like to hear from you.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121655178#Comment_121655178

Step back: why plan and fight a war?

There is no objective to achieve here. The stated objectives cannot be accomplished through military action. Did 20 years of occupation in Afghanistan, Iraq, adventurism in Libya, Syria, Yemen, etc. eliminate the Taliban? ISIS?

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121655178#Comment_121655178

Israel have been told how to reduce civilian casualties, they just choose to ignore it:

US officials said they have outlined several steps for Israel to reduce civilian casualties in Gaza – including using smaller bombs, according to a New York Times report published Saturday.

https://www.newarab.com/news/use-smaller-bombs-gaza-us-tells-israel-report

If they won't listen to the US, they won't listen to arm chair generals on here. So maybe drop this whole 'oh how would you reduce civilian casualties?' defense.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121655178#Comment_121655178

The US has told them all that Sean but Bibi has no interest.

https://www.irishtimes.com/world/middle-east/2023/11/10/israel-hamas-war-gaza-hospitals-come-under-new-israeli-attacks-say-officials/

scottser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121655178#Comment_121655178

They're not interested. This war is a handy number to keep Netanyahu in power and thus remain unaccountable. It will be prolonged, ugly and with unlimited civilian casualties.

But yeh, keep on defending the indefensible pal.

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121641935#Comment_121641935

As people have said about the Palestinians, can’t they just move somewhere else? Or is it just Arabs that should be forcibly removed??

dmcdona

Netanyahu - this war is personal

Source: CNN

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s political prospects in Israel continue to look dim, with a new poll suggesting that his party would come in a very distant second if elections were held today, and the coalition he leads now would not win enough seats to stay in power. 

Benny Gantz, a former defense minister who joined Netanyahu’s war cabinet from the opposition after the October 7 attacks, would be the biggest winner, the poll for CNN affiliate Channel 13 suggests. His National Unity party would win 37 seats, the poll projects. Netanyahu’s Likud party would win 16 with him at the helm, and former Prime Minister Yair Lapid’s Yesh Atid party would come in third with 14, projections suggest.

A slim majority (53%) said Netanyahu’s personal interests were the main consideration driving his conduct of the war. A third (33%) said the national interest was his main consideration, with the remaining respondents saying they did not know or not answering the question.

Israelis last went to the polls on November 1, 2022. The next elections are scheduled for October 27, 2026, but many Israelis expect a national election to be called this year.

The polling, conducted and released Sunday by leading Israeli pollster Camil Fuchs for Channel 13, is broadly in line with other polls conducted since the October 7 Hamas attack on Israel.

dmcdona

At least starvation will save the IDF ammo

Source: CNN

Only seven out of 29 aid missions planned by humanitarian agencies to Gaza were granted access by the Israeli military in January, the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) said in a report Sunday.

There is a “significant increase” in the rate of denials by the Israeli military of access to areas north of Wadi Gaza, in the central Gaza area, compared to previous months, OCHA said.

Compared to previous months: Between October and December 2023, only 6 out of 43 (14%) of the missions planned north were denied, and the rest facilitated.

CNN has reached out to the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) for comment on OCHA’s statistics.

Between Saturday and Sunday, some 325 truckloads of food, medicine and other supplies entered Gaza through the Rafah and the Kerem Abu Salem/ Kerem Shalom border crossings. Approximately 500 commercial and aid trucks per day were being let into Gaza before October 7.

dmcdona

Your daily war crime update

Source: CNN

Medical facilities in Khan Younis in southern Gaza were battered amid an Israeli assault in the area Monday, Palestinian health officials said.

The Hamas-controlled health ministry in Gaza said dozens of people were killed and wounded in the latest offensive in western Khan Younis, where medical facilities including the Nasser Medical Complex, Al Amal Hospital and the Palestine Red Crescent Society headquarters are located.

“The situation here is completely catastrophic. We didn’t sleep last night. The hospital is entirely besieged,” Ahmad Al Moghrabi, a doctor at the Nasser Medical Complex said in a video shared to his Instagram page Monday. “There is no way for us to escape the hospital and no way for evacuation. The troops are all around, and the only roads for evacuation are filled with dead bodies,” he said.

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121655174#Comment_121655174

So the mask slips: the purpose of the so-called "right of return" is to effectively destroy Israel through demographics.

And that's what most questions about Israel come down to: should Israel be allowed to exist.

Once you know where you stand on that question, the answers to other questions tend to follow.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121655345#Comment_121655345

Uhhhh the only 'mask slip' here is alleging that Palestinian's will "destroy Israel" by simply coexisting on equal footing.

That's the Israeli version of Great Replacement Theory, a racial supremacist conspiracy theory.

Good luck to you and gods bless.

https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/great-replacement-explainer

dmcdona

@SeanW

And that's what most questions about Israel come down to: should Israel be allowed to exist.

The only question about Israel is:

When are they going to stop the genocide?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121655392#Comment_121655392

when they're done.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121655328#Comment_121655328

Disgusting IDF behaviour.

tayto lover

'' should Israel be allowed to exist ''

Is this is the new '' from the river to the sear '' or '' only defending themselves ''.??

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121655371#Comment_121655371

No. That is the stated purpose of the "right of return." Gamal Abdel Nasser stated this explicitly:

If the refugees return to Israel - Israel will cease to exist.

And the Israelis have taken note.

That's what that is about - one possible means to destroy Israel. The mask has slipped.

dmcdona

Families of Israeli hostages storm Knesset parliament meeting

A group of families of Israeli hostages still being held in Gaza have stormed a meeting at the Knesset, Israel's parliament.

They broke through security and interrupted a finance meeting - protesting that it was deliberating while their loved ones remain in captivity.

One held up a sign reading: "You will not sit here, while our children are dying there."

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-middle-east-68054982