Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

1581582584586587781

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 828 ✭✭✭Sir_Name




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,329 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Whether Iranians want Israel to exist or not should not affect the rights of the palestinians to self determination. One states security demands do not deny the existance of another country.

    Russia claims that it invaded Ukraine because of security concerns. Would Russia be more secure if Ukraine was controlled by a puppet government? Probably. That doesn't give Russia any rights to occupy Ukraine and control it's peoples. Likewise during the troubles the IRA would regularly retreat back to the republic. Thankfully the UK never questioned the sovereignty of the republic. They never said that the republic can't exist.

    But there are some who say that if it makes Israel more secure, then the Palestinians shouldn't have a state. There's people who say that if it makes Israel more secure, then they should annex the occupied territories.

    That's wrong. Just as it's wrong for Russia to take over Donbas or invade Ukraine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 812 ✭✭✭Hey boy


    The question about how many innocent Gazans was already discussed at some length a few hundred pages ago if you want to read back.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,866 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    "Whether Iranians want Israel to exist or not should not affect the rights of the palestinians to self determination. One states security demands do not deny the existance of another country."

    Iran runs Hamas. Hamas are the government in Gaza, so both are sworn to destroy Israel. Should Israel passively accept a new State directly bordering its country that is sworn to destroy it? Would you accept Cork seceding from Ireland sworn to destroy it?

    Palestinians have the right to self determination, but not until the 'kill all the Jews' oaths go, it's really very simple.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,656 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,656 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Hopefully this is true and they can bring an end to the genocide.





  • Registered Users Posts: 1,309 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    I can only imagine that the average Palestinian in Gaza sees the wrath that Hamas have brought upon ordinary citizens - who just want (and deserve) as much security as Israelis want.

    I can also imagine the average Israeli (Jew or Arab or Christian) being horrified at the death and destruction in Gaza.

    Settlers need to be reigned in, expansion in the West Bank needs to stop, the extreme politicians on all sides need to go, the hostages need to be returned, Hamas and other terrorist groups need to go.

    Agreed - the principle appears simple enough.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,866 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    But the Palestinians can keep firing rockets? You're cool with whatever Hezbollah gets up to?

    "I can only imagine that the average Palestinian in Gaza sees the wrath that Hamas have brought upon ordinary citizens - who just want (and deserve) as much security as Israelis want."

    Really? Haven't you been saying Hamas is guaranteed recruits for generations now? Where will they come from?

    A new Palestinian state needs to support Israel, beyond acknowledging its right to exist. I can see a joint military patrolling Israel's borders with Syria, Jordan, Egypt... Including Palestinian women in the IDF. As well as a favorable disposition for integrating Palestinians into Israeli society as citizens, with the eventual, very long term goal of a one-state solution for both.

    Not everything's on Israel, despite the endless attempts to portray life as such.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,656 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,866 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,309 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Lebanon is different to Gaza. Hezbollah is different to Hamas.

    And no, I've never expressed any support for anyone firing rockets at anyone else.

    Mutual respect and support is critical if coexistence is to happen in a respectful manner.

    As to current events being a major recruitment drive for Hamas, I don't think that would be the case for many gazans. They'll be focused on rebuilding their lives. As for surrounding neighbours, I've no idea what that will look like. The Saudis still seem to be open to peace with Israel. Jordan and Egypt already have accords. The PA have "peace" with Israel (bar illegal settlements).

    if there was a desire for peace, it could happen. But it's a huge undertaking.

    Normal people just want to see and end to the cyclical violence. Those that wish it to continue need to be rooted out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,656 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    "The Israeli intelligence documents make several claims that Sky News has not seen proof of and many of the claims, even if true, do not directly implicate UNRWA."

    "UNRWA also said it shares the list of all its staff with host countries every year, including Israel.

    "The agency never received any concerns on specific staff members," it added."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,866 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,656 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    More evidence that Israels extrajudicial killings were a war crime.





  • Registered Users Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭TheRepentent


    hasbara needs to update its runbook....give it a day or 2 before the irish apologists get up to speed.

    Sig edited so not to "offend" genocide apologists

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYOZ3IzRaf4


    https://www.btselem.org/



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,403 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    You need two things to happen:


    • Iran's network of proxy armies needs to be dismantled (including Hamas). Ideally via regime change in Iran - their theocratic overlords have brought nothing but misery to their people since 1979.
    • Netanyahu needs to go and the Israeli polity needs to coalesce around a centrist option.

    Until both those conditions are present, then it will be rinse and repeat of the current cycle of Hamas attack\overwhelming Israeli retalation. Of course another question is 'are the Palestinians now so radicalized that they actually see Hamas\Iran as their future?'.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,190 ✭✭✭Cordell


    You make it sound like he was a civilian. He wasn't. He was executed because he was Hamas. A Hamas poster boy no less:




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,656 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Paralysed from the waste down, you're a big fan of extrajudicial killings?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,656 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,656 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Another day, another IDF war crime.


    "Israeli soldiers have begun in recent weeks to set fire to homes in the Gaza Strip, following direct orders from their commanders, without the necessary legal permission to do so, according to information obtained by Haaretz.


    Soldiers have destroyed several hundred buildings using this method over the past month."



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,190 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Just as they hunted nazis regardless of their age and health they will be hunting Hamas regardless of their age and health. As the saying goes, the dildo of consequences rarely comes lubed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,656 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,656 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    What's this?


    Oh just more israeli lies


    Edit: dunno why it's says sensitive content, it's just a CNN report on alleged tunnels near a cemetery.





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,190 ✭✭✭Cordell


    I'm a big fan of terrorists being disposed of as early as possible, by any means necessary.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,656 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,214 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    The Palestinians are as radicalised as they have ever been, though less so in Gaza where they is an anger against Hamas for bringing this on them,for continuously stealing food aid and for shooting protesters.


    Netanyahu isn't that far removed from the centre remember Hamas targeted left wing Jews the hardest on Oct 7th, not just solely because they were Jews or left wing which they hate as much being Jewish but because the left in Israel were for a 2 state solution , something which Palestinian society is deeply opposed to.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,893 ✭✭✭SeanW


    These cases are not analogues, nobody in Ukraine was looking for a fight pre-2022 and at no time did the Republic support IRA terrorists. Indeed, when it became clear to the Irish government that there was a problem with IRA members crossing the border, they passed legislation to proscribe them. Furthermore, at no time were "the Troubles" a fight to the death for either Ireland or the UK: even if the UK had to withdraw completely from Northern Ireland, the IRA were never going to continue to the Mainland and drive all the English people into the sea.

    Expecting Israel to co-exist with people who are determined to wipe them out completely is not realistic. As mentioned in a recent post, true peace will probably require the removal of both Netanyahu and the Mullahs of Iran. And hopefully that happens: but in the meantime, we must stand with Israel, its right to exist and its right to defend itself against its mortal enemies.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,038 ✭✭✭circadian



    Go ahead spin masters, what ya got? Hamas done it? They done it to themselves?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,656 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    They've already started, have seen some on other SM claim this was Hamas killing people who refused to fight or were trying to escape.



  • Registered Users Posts: 812 ✭✭✭Hey boy




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,411 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    You may be correct and there may be some who say that if it makes Israel more secure, then the Palestinians shouldn't have a state.

    On the otherhand, it is Palestinian state doctrine set out by their Hamas government that Israel shouldn't exist because Jews don't deserve a homeland and the elimination of all Jews is a goal.

    There is also the contradiction in your first sentence where you dismiss Iran not wanting Israel to exist but condemn "some" who may not want Palestinians to have a state, without quantifying or qualifying that the "some" you refer to are fringe, rather than the whole Iranian state wanting the elimination of Israel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,411 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    If you are going to start a wild rumour, you should always make sure that it is credible. Whether or not the particular rumour you are quoting is true or not, it is certainly credible, as it is something that Hamas are more than capable of.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,009 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    With funding being cut off to the largest provider of support to Gaza, someone needs to present the evidence to justify it.

    How do you know they haven't?

    Do you think Biden made a judgement on a whim, of a tweet?

    No, information and intelligence are shared between Israel and the US, and the US will share it with other allies.

    Each of these has its own intelligence agency that can corroborate and stand over what each other is saying, or call it out as bullshit.

    It stands to reason the US, UK, Canadian, Australian, German, Swedish and Japanese intelligence services (just to name a few) have their way of verifying that UNRAW is indeed riddled with Jihadists, this funding is suspended pending a full investigation on the extensiveness of his.


    Therefore stuff in the press, from CBS, and WSJ just to name a few gives credence that indeed UNRAW has an issue with Hamas and Jihadists using it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,009 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    They are really tightening the noose now.

    Hopefully, Hamas will be cast out of Gaza forever in the next month or two.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,009 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    You seem to have an issue with evidence - I pointed out that evidence - it's in this thread. And it's not just evidence from me, it's from others too.

    Look, lets just let it lie, seeing as you are not going to front up.

    Your agrument amounts to just 'Goggle it'


    There is zero evidence or credibility for your outlandish claims about Israel wanting to kill everyone, civilians being deliberately targeted as per government policy, or that no rapes were committed by Hamas, or that no Jewish civilians were killed on October 7th by Hamas.

    The last two in particular are a vile conspiracy theory, right out of the Nazi playbook.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,009 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Excellent post.


    There is a deep and disturbing trend of 'Atrocity denialism' perpetuated by some in this thread when it comes to what happened on October 7th.

    The fact is some of this is down to the fact that Jews are involved, and they cannot be trusted.

    Is everyone towing the Pro-Palestine line an anti-Semite? No.

    Are some anti-Semitic? Absolutely 100% yes.


    Even when verifiable, independent facts, are pointed out, along will come another poster, with some Tweet from some random guy, or Quads News Network, with some fake news and disinformation, ready to go and spout propaganda.

    I seriously question the motivation and agenda behind some of these posts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,329 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    When was the last time it was a fight to the death for Israel? Are Hamas that much of a threat? From what I saw they performed a pretty nasty terrorist attack and then went and hid in their bunkers. For months Israel have been dropping thousands of bombs on them and leveling Gaza. Are hamas biding their time till they launch their nukes? Are Hamas going to spring up in their millions behind the Israeli front lines with tanks and march on Tel Aviv?

    How exactly is this a battle for survival for israel?

    And yes, I do believe Israel needs to protect itself against Hamas. And yes they do need to go after Hamas. I'm just not hyperbolic enough to claim that hamas can do anything to threaten Israels actual existence unless you count making empty threats. Get over yourself and your melodrama. people won't take you seriously unless you do.


    Now, I do believe that if there's a group of people who won't survive this intact, it's the Gazans. The whole territory is surrounded on all sides. Pretty much no-one goes in or out. There's constant daily bombardments which have killed so many children. Starvation is getting worse and there's less food getting in. People are proposing starving the whole territory because that might hurt Hamas so famine is a distance possibility.

    And back in Israel, people are going to the cinema, going to the beach and just basically hanging out.

    So tell me again, which populace are actually facing an existential crises? Which ones are facing off against one of the worlds most powerful military's which is backed up with supplies from most of the western world.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,009 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    The Jews have made a living out of being victims, they have clowns like you going to bat for them while they massacre defenseless people in Gaza.

    Yet another exhibit of Anti-Semitism, just to show that it exists even on a well-moderated thread.

    @wearedem2024 You need to think of your life choices when it comes to spouting racist, anti-Semitic crap like that. But at least now you have shown your true self in case there is any doubt about your motivation



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,217 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    I have read posts questioning specific parts of the 7th attack but can't recall anyone denying the 7th Oct attack didnt kill civilians.

    They are plenty of here denying that the killing of 10k kids is an atrocity. That is a fact.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 5,919 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    Initially after the Oct 7th attacks some countries announced they would stop funding to Palestine, you may remember the drama within the EU. That was suddenly backtracked etc...

    In light of the accusations against UNWRA the funding being cut off could easily be explained as a knee jerk reaction.

    Israel could have shared the actual evidence to all countries who fund the UNWRA, if they wanted countries to make an informed decision. Equally they could have shared all this information to potentially get the genocide case thrown out of court.

    Remember the only evidence presented publicly seems to be about the 12 UNRWA workers involved in the Oct 7 attacks. Although that may be just 11 if the counterclaim that one suspect isn't actually a UNRWA worker. Still zero evidence presented publicly wrt the 1200 UNRWA workers with ties to Hamas.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,009 ✭✭✭✭markodaly




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,009 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Oh please.

    Some posters won't admit to women being raped by Hamas on October 7th, regardless of the mountain of evidence that now points to a premediate plan to use rape and sexual violence as a weapon of terror.

    Sure, other posters genuinely think that is was the IDF who killed the vast majority of people, including civilians because there may have been the odd case of friendly fire, of course, means that the Israeli government ordered EVERYONE in the region to be killed and mowed down.

    Yes, it's tinfoil crazy lunatic stuff, but it's right here in this thread.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,217 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    I dont agree with anyone who would deny rapes happened. I think there is crazy stuff being written as you say.

    But criticism from those that are expressing very little sentiment regarding the thousands of women and children being killed in Gaza is always going to ring a bit hollow.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,656 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,365 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    No, there was evidence presented publicly, to the US Congress, by Canadian lawyer Hillel Neuer. He's been investigating this for years and has the receipts. It's been posted here a couple of times just yesterday. Weird how that's another subject that certain posters never seem to see or comment on, a bit like all the blatant anti semitism and Hamas support posted throughout the thread. We get "I didn't see any of that, where is it?". Tiresome



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,866 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    You didn't misrepresent that article at all. It's in my opinion not the best written article, as it goes on about the current events between it's lede:

    "Sky News has seen Israeli intelligence documents that Israel claims are evidence that staff working for a UN agency were connected with Hamas in Gaza."

    and later, Sky's conclusion (somewhat buried in the middle):

    "The Israeli intelligence documents make several claims that Sky News has not seen proof of and many of the claims, even if true, do not directly implicate UNRWA."

    But, they (Sky) don't actually flesh out their claim. The claims about UNRWA are coming from a variety of sources, and I don't believe the document Sky saw, is one of them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,919 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    The WSJ article was behind a paywall (I asked you to copy and paste or summarize the part specific to the 10%) and no, I didn't watch the video but found news reports on it. It was listing all the things wrong UNWRA have been doing, teaching hate in school etc... UNWRA staff being a member of a Whatsapp group celebrating the Oct 7 attacks and so on. Definitely seems to be an anti-israel sentiment with those staff members. However zero evidence about 10% of UNWRA staff are members of Hamas.

    Some reporting mentions them being members of Hamas, some mention links to Hamas. So you can see the confusion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,195 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    because israel wouldn't know the truth and reality if it hit them in the face.

    those countries, the US especially, are held to ransom at worst and at best, scared of doing anything to go against, or be seen to be going against israel.

    israel want to discredit and destroy this organisation because it exposes israel's behaviour.

    the funding is removed out of fear on the basis of a mostly baseless allegation by a state who do nothing but lie.

    sure, there probably are a couple of gihadis in the organisation, but it will ultimately be small because the organisation provide a full list of all of their staff to host countries yet israel don't object.

    so either israel are allowing a gihadist organisation to operate to facilitate it's own ends, or as we can clearly see, they are simply making baseless allegations against an organisation that they want to destroy.

    Post edited by end of the road on

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,195 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    hamas aren't gone anywhere.

    they are not going to be cleared out of gaza, apart from in the mind of a delusional netanyahu.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,195 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    all of the claims made by that poster have been backed up and shown to be the case.

    in the case of israel deliberately killing civilians, decades ago.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Advertisement
Advertisement