Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121728945#Comment_121728945

The un rubber stamped a land grab merely 2 years after a world war ended. They did by the pen what others had been doing by force.

That an awful lot of countries were not even members of the UN yet, kind of undermines how much authority they had to do so. That virtually every single country in the region and those closest in proximity could see it was a bad idea should never ever have been ignored.

And your deliberately ignoring that it was done with an almost impressive amount of coercion by the usa

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121730616#Comment_121730616

So we know that this war is between Russia, Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah, PIJ etc on one side, and Israel and Ukraine on the other.

Has Ukraine joined the IDF in Gaza?

You're on the wrong thread I think?

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121729145#Comment_121729145

Everything in the ratification went against article 1 of the UN charter

They failed miserably and ignored all objections.

It was an imposition, not a remotely well thought out plan. If a sovereign state came up with the plan that was out there, it could have been called out for nothing more than an annexation, which is what it was. No more, no less.

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121730798#Comment_121730798

No, Ukraine has its hands full with one of Iran's allies on its territory, while Israel is busy with another. But make no mistake, Russia, Iran and Hamas are on the same side of seemingly unrelated conflicts. Hamas showed this by timing their attack for Putler's birthday, understanding the strategic significance of their attack on Israel.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121730060#Comment_121730060

It's not a falsehood. Your understanding is less than I'd expect of a junior cert history student. That's all. The war began before 1948, and this is something stated by many historians so it can't be wrong.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121730455#Comment_121730455

Again, no. They escalated it. Israel retaliated and escalated beyond anything reasonable

They had spend months provoking though.

How many times to people need to be reminded that Israel illegally settled more land and displaced many, many people on doing so, in the months priort to Oct. 7 than they had in a combined 40 year period prior. Displacing people and making refugees of families who had lived and worked on those lands for longer than Israel has existed.

dmcdona

Zaka used Oct 7 to raise money by shooting PR videos.

That's going to go down well with families of Israelis murdered, raped or taken hostage...

Zaka May Have Cost Israel Its Case Against Hamas at the World Court

Last week Haaretz published an investigation disclosing faults in the work of Zaka, a Haredi rescue organization best known for retrieving body parts after terror attacks (Aaron Rabinowitz, Jan. 31). The expose found that in the chaos of the first days after the October 7 massacre, the Israel Defense Forces assigned some of the work of collecting bodies and other evidence to Zaka, whose volunteers took advantage of their presence on the scene to film PR videos and to raise funds.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121730820#Comment_121730820

The war began before 1948

Really?

Do you mean Arab nations attacked Palestine before May 1948? Or are you talking about the civil war that was brewing between 1947-1948?

Regardless, I was responding the to explict charge it was Israel who started the 1948 war. I sense even you are now conceding this to be a falsehood.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121730876#Comment_121730876

No, they were each phases of the same war. Again you're being deliberately ignorant. You know not one incident started the war and both Israel and Arab States, and others such as Britain had their hand in the outbreak of war.

But to say, Arabs started to war, is so childishly stupid, that I cant believe you're doing anything than being an apologist for current crimes and are just another who is painting anyone who disagrees as some sort of antisemite.

Go and actually read about the many incidents and nuances from pre mandate, to mandate period to the UN ratification. If you'd still come out with , "they started it", theres absolutely no hope for you, and there's even less point in engaging with you

You have an incrediblly narrow minded and simplistic version of the very complex history in your head.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121730749#Comment_121730749

And there's only one side behaving like Hitler and its the Israelis. The New Nazis.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121730047#Comment_121730047

I think you're confusing me with someone else?

I never made a claim that Israel started the war in 1948. I simply quoted Wikipedia - I even put the sentence in bold so there would be no confusion.

Sorry if you got confused. Easily done.

No gotchas either.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121730789#Comment_121730789

The countries in the region have a long long history of Jewish anti-semitism. They would have never accepted a Jewish state.

It was only by might of arms that some finally relented.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121730929#Comment_121730929

There's a number of news items coming out today that, as predicted by many, show the propaganda put out by Israel, the utter lies told and how "moral" the IDF is.

I sense that the wheels are coming off for Israel and it will continue to unravel.

Just on that Zaka story - these are Israelis filming Oct 7th and using that material as a means to raise their PR profile and make money. I can see the outrage and disgust that will generate reverberating for about 2 seconds...

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121730916#Comment_121730916

Please stop interrupting him while he's trying to rewrite history.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121730973#Comment_121730973

Disinformation forms a huge part in their strategy but people are beginning to see through it -

Disinformation campaigns

''Researchers have documented at least 40,000 bots or fake social media accounts, as well as strategic use of state-controlled media outlets like RT, Sputnik and Tasnim. Israel has released several pieces of incorrect or disputed information, leading to weakened credibility and online ridicule.''

Timberrrrrrrr

Slowly but surely the world is turning against Israel and their genocide

https://twitter.com/ToryFibs/status/1754934911595647341?t=U8hQN7h8KMTFxqPBy8g71w&s=19

dmcdona

The most moral army in the world?

In their dreams:

Haaretz:

GAZA: The IDF has begun investigating dozens of incidents in the current war with Hamas that have raised suspicions that orders were disobeyed, in which commanders on the ground exceeded their authority or where it is suspected that the international laws of war were violated.

dmcdona

I don't know what to make of this one unless Israel has its eyes on the end of month report to the ICJ?

Very odd considering Israel is adamant that UNWRA = Hamas

Haaretz:

Israel is pressing the U.S. and the UN to allow UNRWA to continue its role in supplying humanitarian aid to Gaza during the war, Israeli and American officials told the Wall Street Journal. UNRWA said it expects its preliminary report into Israeli claims that a dozen employees took part in the October 7 massacre to be ready by early next month.

dmcdona

For those scoffing at the IDF killing sheep article posted here earlier:

Haaretz:

Arab Israeli lawmaker Ahmed Tibi shared on X/Twitter footage of sheep being shot by Israeli snipers in Khan Yunis in Gaza. According to sources in Khan Yunis, the sheep were in Bani Suheila, near Khan Yunis, an area under Israeli military control.

dmcdona

Israelis want to get rid of the current govt. but don't want peace with their neighbours. Are they starting to enjoy the killing and want to see more?

I guess if you're already committing genocide, why not go all in?

A large majority of Israelis believe that the next Knesset election should be held before its designated date in November 2026, according to a poll by the Israel Democracy Institute. The poll also showed that about half of Israelis would oppose a deal to end the war if it includes the establishment of a Palestinian state and peace agreements with other Arab countries.

dmcdona

Stick your tongue out:

Israeli National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir issued a public apology after his son suggested U.S. President Biden suffered from dementia in a tweet he posted on X.

dmcdona

This is a shocker:

Haaretz:

Israel Police revealed during a Knesset committee hearing that 116 cases have been opened of violent or sexual offenses in hotels where evacuated Israelis have been living since the beginning of the war.

dmcdona

"Complete defeat of Hamas"

At a meeting in the White House, Knesset Speaker Amir Ohana told U.S. National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan that Israel's goal in the Gaza war is the "complete defeat of Hamas," and thanked the U.S. for its support since the outbreak of the war, especially in efforts to secure the release of Israeli hostages.

oh, wait...

Without minimizing the importance of the [Israeli] army's successes while fighting an unprecedented underground war, Hamas has not been defeated in Gaza. Far from it" – Amos Harel

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121730964#Comment_121730964

And some didn't want a country simply created out of thin air for what represented 6% of the population .,

Many of those in favour of the creation of Israel were vehemently anti Arab and were happy to lob this grenade at them as a f.u. but let's go back to the old boring antisemitism argument when thetes nothing left to fall back on

It wasn't simply, anti semitism , and never was. Again an overly simplistic argument. It was an appallingly bad deal for Palestinians. Land carved up but everything of any remote importance was ceded to Israel.

Imagine if the partition of Ireland had given not only Belfast, but Dublin, Cork, most of any decent agricultural land. Now, I'm being simplistic here, but that's basically what happened.

Timberrrrrrrr

Banksy knows

https://twitter.com/JerryHicksUnite/status/1754817520832323879?t=Cu0stOMQZH8Evn_lPaSCrw&s=19

dmcdona

So much for the war goal of releasing the hostages. With all the resources to mount rescue missions, it seems the IDF preferred bulldozing cemeteries, razing universities, schools and sniping nuns and people waving white flags. And looting. And rifling through knicker drawers. And murdering 90 children a day for four months.

HOSTAGES/CEASE-FIRE: More than a fifth of the remaining hostages being held in Gaza are dead, according to an internal assessment conducted by the IDF, the New York Times reported. The families of 32 hostages whose deaths are confirmed have been informed, according to four military officials, who said they were also assessing unconfirmed intel that at least 20 other hostages have also been killed.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121731186#Comment_121731186

Banksie hits that home better than anyone could. That's a forever artwork...

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121730784#Comment_121730784

Agreed but Hamas and their supporters will be loving it.

Timberrrrrrrr

More israeli scumbaggery

https://twitter.com/jacksonhinklle/status/1754911215443169288?t=SCrSfXl4BqpFCEHlnNrhUQ&s=19

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121730836#Comment_121730836

None of that justified Oct 7th.

Hamas knew Israel would react. They may have misjudged the reaction.

Hamas could stop this tomorrow.

Where is the pressure on Hamas?

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121731079#Comment_121731079

The fact they are being investigated is to be welcomed. Although if you were a cynic you might think this is due to the fallout from the South African case.

I wouldn't hold my breath about anyone being jailed and kicked out of the IDF if these allegations are found to be true.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121731007#Comment_121731007

There's a slew of it today.

I'm guessing there is so much of it, eventually some was bound to start leaking out.

And if this is "some", God knows what's next.

The only thing that might stop this murder and mayhem will, oddly, be Hamas agreeing the ceasefire conditions. I think many Israelis might pray they do.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121731274#Comment_121731274

I never said it did, but Oct 7th equally doesn't justify Israels response, and continued decimation of Palestine

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121731255#Comment_121731255

Seems half of the Israelis would love it to continue too. 12,000 murdered children is clearly not enough for them.

I'm sure the IDF have their eyes on a few more shekels and knickers too. And one can never get enough sniping practice.

As the IDF are wont to say "Fukcin' A"

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121731185#Comment_121731185

So International Law is irrelevant when its inconvenient to you?

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121731274#Comment_121731274

Are you happy with 12,000 murdered kids being justification for what happened on Oct 07?

Isreal could stop this now.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121731275#Comment_121731275

Totally agree - reports of IDF rapists are still secret, many decades later.

But at least now, when the words "the most moral army in the World" are uttered, the worldwide reaction will be "meh"

The monthly report deadline draws nearer so there is that too and there will be political games played so Israel can shine that particular tu*d.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121731323#Comment_121731323

So you agree if any IDF solider or commander is found to have contravened it, then they should be kicked out of the IDF and Jailed?

TinyMuffin

detestable fookers

https://x.com/CensoredMen/status/1754824689707323551?s=20

iamstop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121705175#Comment_121705175

This is insane. It seems most of the Oct 7th carnage was caused by Israel.

https://youtu.be/-yxEMYRoYBc?si=3gT9JXjKdCHQWhM6

Not sure if it could be described as a false flag but it was used as propaganda to try to sway the public opinion of the west. Well it's all falling apart now but none of the major news networks seems to be reporting on it. Only a few independent ones.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121731323#Comment_121731323

They went against their own charter on establishing the state of Israel in the way they did. Same year they brought in the declaration on human rights which has been laughed since.

Their decision was not based on their own rules, but rather that heavy and unrelenting coercion of the likes of the United states strong arming numerous countries who opposed it.

If it walks like a duck and all that.

I could have simply replied, pots and kettles too

pjohnson

The killing sheep was pure stupid and unnecessary.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121730616#Comment_121730616

They're not the same war. not one bit the same. Russia for all it's many, many, many flaws and faults, is not wrong in stating that Israel is bang out of order. Just because they're right about that, doesnt make them any better though.

And again, what's with the dumbing down to left and right. Both the fars of any extreme would probably like to see most of the Middle East and Israel become a footnote in history. For most it's just a bragging competition and a chance to outdo each other

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121730816#Comment_121730816

Thats some tinfoil hat madness. I don't know how many times this has to be stated but, disapproval of Israels behaviour and support of the Palestinians is not support for Hamas nor is it anti-semetic.

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121731308#Comment_121731308

I didn’t say you did W.

Israel’s response certainly appears very disproportionate from where we are all sitting but other realistic options have been slow in coming from the critics or elsewhere and therein lies the dilemma.

I hate it but it but this war kicked off on 07.10.

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121731312#Comment_121731312

Hmmm.

Hamas and their supporters - “we love death more than they love life”. Hard to negotiate with such types especially given their own lack of regard for ordinary Gazans.

Innocent people caught in the middle. All who want to leave should be able to.

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121731532#Comment_121731532

These are clear patterns that I see, yes the Left is joined by centrists and sane people on the Right in condemning Russia's invasion of Ukraine, but the Far Right is definitely in Putler's pocket while many of them claim to support Israel. Bonkers stuff.

But opposition to Israel typically comes from either Islamists or the Western Left, many of those Leftists who are supposedly with Ukraine.

And yes, this is definitely part of a broader conflict. Unless you seriously expect us to consider it a co-incidence that Hamas and Russia both have the same benefactor (Iran) and that there have been a number of meetings between Hamas and the Russian government, and that the 7th of October just happens to be Putler's birthday.

You don't need to be particularly observant to see all the ways that these supposedly unrelated conflicts are actually one in the same, and that Russia, Iran and Hamas are on one side of it with Israel and Ukraine being on the other. It's just bizarre that some people will side with both sides of the conflict (e.g. Israel and Russia for the Far Right, but for Ukraine but against Israel on the Left).

I don't understand how anyone can be so incoherent and self-contradictory 🤔 it makes no sense.

dmcdona

@Hey boy

I was surprised at the polling data that ~50% did not want the war to end if it meant peace with the Palestinians. It seems at odds with the narrative that Israel is surrounded by those that would kill them.

Agreed about Hamas and they would of course be delighted with the death toll - massive propaganda for them and fertile recruiting material. But Israel has made its choice about that.

Hamas must go. Easier said than done of course. Any captured must face justice.

Said it before - innocents on both sides are paying and will continue to pay be that Palestinian children orphaned or hostage families not knowing if their loved ones are alive or not.

dmcdona

Banksy - Gaza:

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121731079#Comment_121731079

That's all b***sh1t. Its just trying to prevent the ICJ from investigating them for their war crimes which seemingly are mounting very fast.