Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121742774#Comment_121742774

The population of Poland was 35million though (in 1938 according to wiki). I think that makes the Gazan deaths greater per head of population

tayto lover

Just watched a video of children crying with hunger on Instagram and MSF workers pleading for food to be allowed in. Its harrowing. Something needs to be done to avert a much larger death toll.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121742654#Comment_121742654

But you stated the anecdote was meaningless. Now its very good? You're posts are becoming quite confused and confusing.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121742660#Comment_121742660

Indeed - the irony is palpable...

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121742805#Comment_121742805

0.006% of Polish population

0.009% of the Gaza population

50% more Palestinian civilians killed per head of population compared to Polish civilian deaths.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121742777#Comment_121742777

well if as the example used by the poster as Nazi bad behavior of 200k civilians from a population of 35million were killed by Nazis in the invasion of Poland in 1939 then Israel are worse for killing 30k of a 2.1 million population in Gaza (if we assume at 14k of 30k in Gaza were civilians). I dont believe the IDF are as bad as the Nazis but I could see how the numbers dont help their case that they care about civilian life.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121742904#Comment_121742904

I dont think they thought their example through, as it makes the Gazan casualty rate look much worse. The Nazis would hardly be described as being careful about saving civilian lives in their invasions.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121742911#Comment_121742911

I only compared the numbers that were given.

Israel is certainly not being "careful" about protecting civilian lives and have been pulled up on it many many Nations. And as the ICJ ruled, the SA case calling out Israeli Genocide is plausible to the extent the ICJ ruled Israel has to comply with 6 preliminary measures.

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121741744#Comment_121741744

The difference is that Israel doesn't have an equivalent of Maurice Papon, who worked in the colonial admin in Algeria after WW2. By the way, the first massacre in the conflict was committed by the French - at Setif on VE Day.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121740260#Comment_121740260

yes that's correct.

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121742251#Comment_121742251

Yes. I think Israel is (as it has been since 1947) fighting against those who want to wipe them out. So I support them and their fight.

Not unquestioningly, and I don't defend anything that's a clear war crime, but in broad terms, I support Israel.

Rezident

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743176#Comment_121743176

That is who they are trying to eradicate from the Middle East. For starters. That is why they started this war and have promised to do it again.

The Palestinian leadership are open and honest about this, as opposed to their useful idiot supporters in the West.

TelephoneTag

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743284#Comment_121743284

Israel and its clique/allies in the west are behind this war and have driven decades of misery there and across the world.

Montage of Feck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743088#Comment_121743088

Don't you mean the Israeli's?

Rezident

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121742746#Comment_121742746

It is war, the Palestinians started the war and they could end it anytime by releasing the hostages. Why don't the Palestinians want to stop the war?

Are those figures according to Hamas? Hamas 'figures' are about as reliable as those of Putin. Also, they will naturally include all of the Palestinians murdered by Hamas, they kill anyone even suspected of collaborating with Israel or the US, plus all the people their thousands of homemade rockets sometimes fall short and land on. They killed c. 500 Palestinians in the Al-Ahli hospital alone when it was hit by a Palestinian rocket. It is unclear how anyone could still claim to believe everything Hamas says? Do you really believe everything Hamas says? Like inside your human brain, right now? Seriously?

They don't just kill Jews. They kill Christians, atheists, gay people, even Muslims who practice a slightly different type of Islam. And we know that even their own women have not exactly fared well for the last few hundred years. Radical Islamists do not appear to be able to live in peace with anyone, anywhere in the world, even in fully Islamic places.

And by hiding among Gazan refugees and ordering them not to leave an area after Israel has just warned them it is about to be targeted, they are effectively killing them too. The Palestinian terrorists even hide in hospitals killing their own injured women and children. All just for some PR that will be spouted by useful ideologues like you, who know the figures cannot possibly be true. Do you still believe everything that Hamas, a literal death cult, tells you?

How very unusual.

nickkohl

Has everyone already forgotten about Ukraine?

Gerry T

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743540#Comment_121743540

When will the UK stop being the USAs bitch, its embarrassing. I haven't yet seen it said in the media, but someone needs to start asking the question, 'can the USA and possibly UK be help accountable for the genocide by Israel' this needs to be highlighted to put pressure on these two.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121742875#Comment_121742875

You brought your personal story into play here. All I am saying is that you have made a good case for the elimination of Hamas, an organisation whose only aim is Genocide and Jihadist violence against Jews. That is all.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121742911#Comment_121742911

It was not our example.

A poster made a clumsy comment about how "Israel is worse than the Nazi's". Which of course is preposterous.

We know that in the first 6-8 weeks of the Invasion of Poland, the Nazis killed many more civilians, to draw some loose comparison. But that wasn't the end of it.

When the war was over, Poland lost approx 6 million people, almost 1 in 5 Poles died in 6 years of war.

And this was just in Poland....

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743317#Comment_121743317

More QNN propoganda?

You do know that they have been banned from multiple social media platforms for their history of misinformation and disinformation, yet you are OK with this?

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743318#Comment_121743318

Sadly, probably not. This is the other side of the same stupid coin where people equate Palestine=Hamas.

cnocbui

Ironic that Hamas was created by Mossad. Israeli intelligence knew about the planned attacks at least 12 months prior to them happeneing. If anyone felt a sense of disbelief that Israeli intelligence didn't know about this, then they were right to do so.

Prior to the attack Israel had been staging aggressive raids into Gaza, killing hundreds, including scores of children. Some journalists even asked why:

Israel raids: Why are so many Palestinians being killed?

It's almost as if they were deliberately provoking a response, got what they wanted and suppressed the intelligence about it so they could then over-react and clean out the Palestinians en-masse.

They really are a nation of cunning butchers. Prior to current events the death ratio was 18:1, that is Israelis killed 18 palestinians for each of their own who died. It's going to be far worse when next the numbers are tallied.

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743783#Comment_121743783

As I have said MANY times before when you have tried to play this card.

Instead of attacking the source why not instead discuss the content?

nacho libre

A deal that sees Sinwar exiled is looking more likely. Well this is assuming the IDF don't get to him first.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743540#Comment_121743540

Biden is on to them. They are Israels agent provocoateurs, used to stir trouble when a reaction is wanted to take action against:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/biden-executive-order-israeli-settlers-palestinians-west-bank/

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743717#Comment_121743717

I made a case as to why the Palestinians react to being bullied for 75 years by the Israelis and turned your own narrative on its head. That is all.

I see you're still peddling your factually incorrect ICJ material too which is remarkable given the preaching about "misinformation". The ICJ only made findings against Israel as regards genocide:

1. For Israel to take "all measures" to prevent acts of genocide from taking place - FAIL
2. To ensure the IDF does not engage in any acts of genocide - FAIL
3. To prevent and punish public incitement to genocide, including by government and military officials - FAIL
4. To enable basic services and humanitarian aid to reach Gazan civilians - FAIL
5. To preserve evidence related to violations of Genocide Convention - TBD
6. To submit a report to the ICJ within one month on all measures taken - TBD

• Genocide
• 2000lb dumb bombs
• White phosphorous
• 260 infants less than 1 year old murdered
• 90 children killed daily - every single day since 7th October
• Sniping nuns, civilians carrying white flags and sheep
• Refusing water, food, fuel and medical aid
• Looting, stealing and rifling through knicker drawers
• Leaving infants to decompose in an ICU unit
• Bulldozing cemeteries
• Bombing ambulances
• Razing universities, schools and places of worship
• Destroying hospitals
• Zaka filming PR videos on Oct 7th to raise funds
• Deliberately Targeting children and "safe areas"

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743893#Comment_121743893

Because the source IS your tweet.

We have no idea where that video comes from, if it legit, if it is altered, if its taken out of context, nor verified.

Never mind the accusation of the video that are just left there hanging with no verification in of itself...

At the end of the day, you are happy to spam this thread with Tweets from accounts that are known for spreading misinformation and disinformation. That is what you are doing at the end of the day.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743876#Comment_121743876

Israeli intelligence knew about the planned attacks at least 12 months prior to them happeneing. If anyone felt a sense of disbelief that Israeli intelligence didn't know about this, then they were right to do so.

Id like to see real actual evidence of such an accusation, and not some random guy with a Twitter account or podcast.

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743938#Comment_121743938

Did you even watch the video? It's in English so it's not hard to understand, are you saying we shouldn't retweet anything if you don't like the source no matter the content?

I'll post what I want from where I want, if you haven't the respect to discuss the content then feel free to put me on ignore, we all see what your agenda is when you choose to attack the source.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743876#Comment_121743876

Mossad are ruthless and indifferent to the killing of non Israelis, but I have a hard time believing they would sit on their hands and allow Israelis be killed en masse. Everything they do , whether you agree with their actions or not, is done with the mindset of protecting Israelis. I think they were asleep on the job as it were. Intelligence agencies are not infallible, they get it wrong sometimes. Dief kept the planning of this operation to a tight circle. The US has assessed that even the Iranians didn't have foreknowledge of what was going to happen. It's possible that at some point information was dismissed that something might be up due to complacency . I don't buy either that Bibi as ruthless and cunning as he is would have wanted these attacks to occur. He would surely know it would destroy his reputation as "Mr Security".

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743330#Comment_121743330

The Gaza Ministry of Health figures are accurate and have ben recognised as such by the likes of the UN.

Every Palestinian in Gaza is given an "identification number" by the Israelis when they are born. It is these Israeli numbers that are used to generate those killed in Gaza. They only report confirmed dead people.

There are suspected to be at least 7000 civilians buried under the rubble, shredded by 2000lb bombs or burned beyond recognition by white phosphorous. However, thee are not reported as they cannot be confirmed as dead.

Presumably, the infants found decomposing in ICU because they could not be evacuated, didn't even get their Israeli tags.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743953#Comment_121743953

Here you are, straight from the New York Times, sorry, I mean Twitter:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html

By Ronen Bergman and Adam Goldman

Reporting from Tel Aviv

Published Nov. 30, 2023

Updated Dec. 2, 2023

Israeli officials obtained Hamas’s battle plan for the Oct. 7 terrorist attack more than a year before it happened, documents, emails and interviews show. But Israeli military and intelligence officials dismissed the plan as aspirational, considering it too difficult for Hamas to carry out.

The approximately 40-page document, which the Israeli authorities code-named “Jericho Wall,” outlined, point by point, exactly the kind of devastating invasion that led to the deaths of about 1,200 people.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743570#Comment_121743570

A case is being prepared:

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/africa/south-african-lawyers-preparing-lawsuit-against-us-uk-for-complicity-in-israels-war-crimes-in-gaza/3109201

TelephoneTag

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743932#Comment_121743932

And some wonder why the Palestinians fight back.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743783#Comment_121743783

Pot, kettle, black.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743289#Comment_121743289

Actually it's far more likely that Russia is behind this war. Russia egged on Iran to egg on Hamas to stage an outrage, knowing that the bloodthirsty genocidal Israelis were only waiting for an excuse to smash the Gaza region.

All to deflect from their invasion of Ukraine and diminish supplies of funding and munitions to Ukraine. And Israel / USA/ UK fell for it, hook line & sinker.

Disgusted that the Irish basketball team played that match yesterday, sold their souls to the devil for forty pieces of silver. A bad day for sport and for basketball in particular in Ireland.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743932#Comment_121743932

I made a case as to why the Palestinians react to being bullied for 75 years by the Israelis and turned your own narrative on its head. That is all.

The same Palestinians who attacked Israel with the help of Arabs no less than 3 times (And lost)?

The same Palestinians who are on their 3rd Intifada?

The same Palestinians who divert precious resources and launch thousands of rockets into Israel?

The same Palestinians who blew themselves up in cafes and buses?

The same Palestinians whose leaders are billionaires according to Forbes?

The same Palestinians who launched the October 7th attack, that deliberately targeted civilians, women and children?

etc..

etc....

At the end of the day, this is a long drawn-out conflict and the main takeaway is that the Palestinians have been on a losing streak because of choices they have made.

Go back to Arafat and examine what he was offered by Clinton. He turned it down and led his people down the rabbit hole of destruction we see today.

I remember when Sharon was made PM, the Palestinians were dancing on the streets because they thought he would bring the fight to the West Bank and like the good brainwashed people they were, they thought they would push them back, and finally 'win' their freedom through violence... with the help of the international community of course...

That was 25 years ago, how did that turn out?

I feel for the average Palestinian, I really do, but an objective look at history shows us that they have been led astray by their leaders who are corrupt morally and intellectually. Too often they have gone back to the "Well, let's just lob some more rockets at them" tactic, with no end to the issues.

When the dust settles on this latest phase of this conflict and it will, I hope that Hamas will be eradicated as a force in Gaza and something better, more moderate comes up from the ashes. I also hope Bibi will get off the stage and that the Israeli public reflect and revise what they need to do in order to restore peace in the Levant. But it can't be all on their heads either. The wider Arab world and Palestinians need to stop the cycle of hate, overt anti-semitism and revenge violence that has led to this point.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743964#Comment_121743964

I'll post what I want from where I want,

I know that now.

I just thought you would at least pretend you would do some due diligence on the accounts and sources you re-post. But even though it has been pointed out to you multiple times that the accounts you use are spreaders of fake news, misinformation and disinformation, you seem hell-bent on your objective.

Therefore one has to conclude you are happy, if not proud of yourself, that you are spreading misinformation and disinformation on this thread, given the Twitter accounts you repost.

I cannot stop you of course, but I can point it out.

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121744043#Comment_121744043

Again, instead of attacking the source why don't you try and reumfute the evidence?

We had this discussion last week when you tried to play this card, no matter how many times it was pointed out to you that the sourcer was just retweeting a video from someone else you flatly refused to discuss the content and continued to attack the source.

You do this with any evidence posted, you either attack the source or just ignore any evidence when you can't attack the source.

TelephoneTag

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121744027#Comment_121744027

Irish basketball legitimized them, they could have found a way.

If the people won't back boycotting of a murderous regime what is going on with their moral compass.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743992#Comment_121743992

Fair enough.

The loose plan and intelligence were gathered, but it was dismissed by the Israelis as they thought the plans were far too ambitious and beyond the operational scope of Hamas.

They were wrong on both counts.

The audacity of the blueprint, officials said, made it easy to underestimate. All militaries write plans that they never use, and Israeli officials assessed that, even if Hamas invaded, it might muster a force of a few dozen, not the hundreds who ultimately attacked.

Israel had also misread Hamas’s actions. The group had negotiated for permits to allow Palestinians to work in Israel, which Israeli officials took as a sign that Hamas was not looking for a war.

But Hamas had been drafting attack plans for many years, and Israeli officials had gotten hold of previous iterations of them. What could have been an intelligence coup turned into one of the worst miscalculations in Israel’s 75-year history.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121744043#Comment_121744043

Yet you are happy to spread misinformation when it suits your position. You also double down rather than admit you were wrong about the ICJ in your discussion with another poster. Either you don't realise what you are doing or you are being disingenous as you don't want to admit you are wrong to the other side. So it's all a bit rich of you to lecture others about spreading misinformation when you are more than happy to do it yourself. I realise you will continue in the same vein, but you are not hoodwinking anyone who is capable of being objective.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743876#Comment_121743876

It's almost as if they were deliberately provoking a response, got what they wanted and suppressed the intelligence about it so they could then over-react and clean out the Palestinians en-masse.

This is pure conjecture by the way.

It's like the old 9/11 conspiracy.

a) it was an inside job at the behest of the Military Industrial Complex

or

b) the Americans knew exactly what was to occur but let it happen cause again, for the Military Industrial Complex

Sir_Name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743861#Comment_121743861

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743330#Comment_121743330

Case in point...

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121744151#Comment_121744151

Same as the conspiracy of UNWRA teahcing anti-semitism in schools. Has there ever been evidence provided for this kind of stuff?

Sir_Name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743953#Comment_121743953

Israeli intelligence leak details extent of warnings over Hamas attack | Israel | The Guardian

They were Israel's 'eyes on the border' - but their Hamas warnings went unheard - BBC News

Just a few news reports.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121744151#Comment_121744151

You talk as if the US is some independent country that would put a stop to another zionist land grab or yet another dictatorially minded leader trying to cling to power through bloodshed. There is an election comming up in the US and the Jews there outnumber those in Israel about 2:1.

Hawkeye123

Congrats to Israel for beating Ireland in basketball. The better team won.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743992#Comment_121743992

The US had all sorts of warnings before 9/11 too - does that mean that Bush Jr knew about it - or worse, that he wanted it because it allowed him to launch the war that his father "didn't finish"? That's what happened as a result of 9/11, after all. It also probably gave him a second term in office.

That would all make sense, on a conspiracy-level reading of events. However I think it's nonsense, and I think it's equally nonsense to believe that Israeli intelligence, much less Netanyahu, wanted Oct 7th.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121744027#Comment_121744027

I agree with the first part of that. Not sure about the last.