Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751367#Comment_121751367

So when the reply to "You are justifying the October 7th attack" is "Resisting a colonialist State, an aggressive capitalist entity is not crime" can you please explain to me how that is NOT justifying it?

I can't see any other way to read that particular reply to that particular post. Post 31099, in case you wish to check that I'm quoting correctly. Given your biased generalisation above.

Unless you also think that October 7th was not a crime?

Except it was. In any law on warfare, it clearly was.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751362#Comment_121751362

Killing even one civilian is not ok, but that is what happens in a war. And this is a war that Hamas started, knowing that Gazans would be killed as a result. In fact it's certainly what Hamas wanted.

It's also what Iran and Russia wanted. They must be delighted that it has all succeeded beyond their wildest dreams. Thanks in no small part to useful idiots shouting about "Genocide Joe" and blaming the Jews for being massacred.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751437#Comment_121751437

And remember, @Weepsie claimed earlier 'No one supports Hamas', despite the reality that many do, including here.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751033#Comment_121751033

israel were aware that the october attack was going to take place.

instead of securing the border, they threw it open and let it happen.

the hamas rockets mostly fail because they are crap and because the iron dome sometimes helps.

israel's security is generally fine, they have full security, it's government, military, supporters and hasbara shills just want to play the victim instead of taking responsibility for their behaviour.

israel has lost.

lost the information war, lost plenty of soldiers, have killed many of the hostages, have been proven to be liers, have killed few hamas millitants and will not destroy hamas who wiill remain in charge of gaza.

nachouser

The evening crew are are here, I see. Deflectors? Assemble!

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751456#Comment_121751456

Israel kils 10s of thousands of civilians and you blame Iran and Russia and people criticising Joe biden. Do you have anything to say about the two kids that died today in gaza killed by idf action? I guess they are inconveniently young collateral damage to you.

Hamas have massacred 1k Israeli what have Israel done to 30k Gazans,?

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751048#Comment_121751048

hamas wouldn't exist if israel didn't create and fund them.

resistence wouldn't exist if israel stayed within it's actual borders as set out in 1948 and behaved like the western style democracy it claims to be.

Donald Trump

Going on about a couple of thousand militants being terrorists..........while ignoring the much larger terrorist State beside them currently acting out their genocidal fantasies.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751473#Comment_121751473

I didn't say no one does. I said there's been none here. Stop misquoting what I said. You've already been corrected once.

Sir_Name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751473#Comment_121751473

Like who??

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751385#Comment_121751385

It isn't.

But defending it happening is justifying it, which is what's happening quite a lot. Civilian deaths have been passed off as collateral damage. That's justifying it.

Need to try harder.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751247#Comment_121751247

Let's see, Biden called for a two state solution; he's upbraided Netanyahu saying he's gone too far and he's sanctioned some Jewish settler scumbags. He's also reminded Israel that those receiving US weapons must abide by international law. He clearly doesn't like or side with Netanyahu:

Like everyone in the administration and any Democrat with a pulse, he’s deeply suspicious of Benjamin Netanyahu, and privately has called the Israeli prime minister a “bad fuc​king guy,” according to people who’ve talked to the president.

An interesting piece revealing the Democrats seem to have had it with Netanyahu:

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/02/04/biden-third-party-peril-00139380

I wish Biden would ditch the typical US kneejerk response of backing Israel no matter what and do more to stop this slaughter.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751456#Comment_121751456

Of course it's what Russia wants. When the West criticises them for the likes of Bucha or blowing up buildings of kids in Mariupol, they can just point to the hypocrisy of the same countries actively facilitating Israel to do worse.

Fun fact. In the various tribunals and trials after the second world war, one cast iron way to defeat a warcrime charge was to show that the allies did the same at some point! Because the rules were literally set up so that anything done by the allies was, by definition, not a warcrime.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751526#Comment_121751526

Am I following a different war?

There has been no withdrawal of weapons from America for Israel. This is the key issue. Biden supports giving them weapons.

dmcdona

Hamas committed an atrocity on 7th October. In over 1000 posts, I think I've seen one post that supported it.

I have seen many posts debating the treatment of the Palestinians (not Hamas) by Israel as a reason for their general hostility to Israel in Gaza and the West Bank.

The Hamas atrocity of 7th October is abhorrent and there is no justification for it. Israel is justified in bringing those who perpetrated it to justice or, as is that case in war, "eliminating" them.

What Israel has done in the past 4 months has brought them in front of the ICJ which has laid down 4 provisional measures on genocide, 1 on the provision of humanitarian aid to Gaza and 1 requiring Israel to submit a report on actions taken by 26 Feb.

The Israeli Govt. has stated two goals - eliminate Hamas and release the hostages. Since the 5 day pause, no hostages have been released or rescued. At least one hostage has been killed by Israel bombings. 3 surrendering hostages were killed by the IDF. Hamas is nowhere near being eliminated.

So far, nearly 30,000 Gazans have been killed, over 7000 are missing and over 60,000 have been injured. Of those killed, 21,000 are women and children. 260 infants less than 12 months old have been killed.

No person with any sense of humanity can defend what Hamas did. Nor can they defend what Israel is doing.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751497#Comment_121751497

You didn't specify "here," but whatever. And the poster cheering on rpg use by Hamas against the IDF wasn't a supporter, I guess.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751582#Comment_121751582

I think the US memorandum is the first step in giving the US the justification for halting/limiting the supply of weapons.

The US may support the giving of weapons but they now require "credible and reliable written assurances" must be provided to the US by foreign governments that receive American weapons to ensure they are used in accordance with international law. As part of this, foreign governments must also provide assurances that US humanitarian aid is being delivered to civilian populations caught in a conflict.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68253765

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751475#Comment_121751475

You are mixing truth and error there not to mention contradicting yourself.

At least you have finally acknowledged that Hamas fires rockets. Progress. Next do Hezbollah and then circle back and tell us again that Israel has “security in full”.

Hamas could end this tomorrow. They won’t.

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751587#Comment_121751587

I think, in general terms, this is a fair analysis actually.

I just wish Hamas hadn’t attacked on Oct 7th. It is important to remember that is what started this war.

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751588#Comment_121751588

Sure one poster a while back said he would join Hamas if he was there…

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751617#Comment_121751617

Again, fair and reasonable.

Aid needs to go in from Israel and from Egypt and possibly by sea under the watchful eye of Israel to ensure weapons aren’t smuggled in.

Beasty

@TelephoneTag threadbanned

Hey boy

https://www.timesofisrael.com/directly-beneath-unrwas-gaza-headquarters-idf-uncovers-top-secret-hamas-data-center/

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751617#Comment_121751617

Gaza has been flattened. What war are you watching? With Joe Biden's support.

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121742240#Comment_121742240

To move to...other democracies. Like Australia, the US, the UK.

I can't believe anyone is actually nitpicking a statement that democracy is the best form of government. Yes, democracies can and do have flaws, but overall they deliver far better lives for their citizens than the alternatives.

I'm Irish btw.

Toeuptony

https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1756415446989836318?t=_wCCcsAnrO4E-fpufUwAjw&s=19

The double standards in the media over their coverage of this atrocity is stunning!

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751873#Comment_121751873

Perhaps Israel should stop deliberately engineering conditions where democracy cannot exist for the Palestinians

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751963#Comment_121751963

American media for you. CNN, New York Times - awful media.

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751994#Comment_121751994

The Palestinians in Gaza aren’t allowed to vote because Hamas says no, not Israel. Sigh. One vote, that’s all they got.

Hamas should surrender and give ordinary Gazans a chance.

Hey boy

I see that a pro-Palestine protester who held up a “Call Hamas for a ceasefire” sign in London today had his poster destroyed by other ‘peace activists’.

There should be more of the former and less of the latter behaviour.

i understand SF put out similar protesters from their gathering earlier this week. What I read indicated the protesters were Palestinians.

Why are anti Hamas signs not allowed/welcome at a pro Palestine march/rally?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121752091#Comment_121752091

It's strange that people posting on an Irish message board are apparently clueless as to what can drive the rise of certain structures within society. Given that we had 30+ years of killings up the North................... and yet the environment up there changed without all of the people there being murdered or blown to bits.

Perhaps though you are not aware of such matters.

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121752165#Comment_121752165

Donald

Heh heh. You are now making a different argument.

Hamas won’t hold another election. Fact. You don’t want to acknowledge that because it doesn’t fit your narrative. Israel left Gaza in 2005, nearly 20 years ago.

Israel is doing a lot wrong and it’s right to point it out but why the reluctance to blame Hamas when it’s appropriate and correct, as in the very example YOU brought up and tried to blame Israel?

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121752215#Comment_121752215

IDF soldiers may have left Gaza back then, but make no mistake Gaza has been occupied since then. You don't need boots on the ground to occupy an area.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121752215#Comment_121752215

Fair enough. I will resign myself to the fact that you can't think for yourself and will be forever constrained to simply parroting zionist propaganda. I was initially surprised that you couldn't understand the simple point given the history on this island, but then I realised that that is par for the course.

BTW, a quote from your dear leader:

Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas … This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank

Article from an Israeli newspaper the day after the Hamas attack:

For years, the various governments led by Benjamin Netanyahu took an approach that divided power between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank — bringing Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to his knees while making moves that propped up the Hamas terror group.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751641#Comment_121751641

Totally agree. I think if the clock could be turned back, the horror of this war would have been avoided.

I think the majority of Israeli civilians are getting the sh*ttty end of the stick from their Govt and the hard-liners and Settlers. The IDF are behaving atrociously and I'd bet there are many in the IDF who are disgusted with the behaviour of some of their colleagues. The hostage families have been promised their loved ones back but nothing has been done since the pause. For all of this, the nation will pay on the world stage - finance, tourism, trustworthiness and so on.

The Palestinians are being battered daily, they are living on animal feed and so on. I'd imagine the living who survive will suffer for the rest of their lives with this trauma and bereavement. They have been hoodwinked by Hamas for years and now pay the price.

When this is over, there has to be cool heads getting together to make hard decisions that result in peace and security for both the Israelis and the Palestinians. This just cannot happen again - man's inhumanity to man.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751647#Comment_121751647

That is true.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751653#Comment_121751653

That is necessary - no means for Hamas to re-arm or bolster their position in any way.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751716#Comment_121751716

I'm watching the same war as you - and I get that the US has supplied, for years, weapons to Israel. Serious weapons like 2000lb bombs.

But given the memorandum issue Thursday, I believe they now realise they are in jeopardy of aiding and abetting genocide. I understand moves are underway to take complicit countries to the ICJ - US, UK and a few others.

No-one can turn the clock back but I do think the US is attempting to make amends where it can.

I avoid directly attributing policy to "Joe Biden" since it is the US Govt. that lay down the rules. Biden has some sway as President but not much. He's be trying to push through aid to Ukraine for months.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751963#Comment_121751963

I think in fairness to reputable news agencies, they can only state what they can verify. Bear in mind that truth is the first casualty of war.

The BBC report gives as much verified information as possible. As soon as further verification is received, the BBC will update its reporting. This is standard reputable journalism.

This is their top news item and is very prominent - they are at least giving her story the coverage it deserves.

Its absolutely heart-breaking. Five of her relatives in the car plus two medics responding in their ambulance were all killed.

Hoboo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121752317#Comment_121752317

Making amends and pushing through aid?

Or

Trying to take the moral high ground AFTER supporting and providing the weapons to commit mass genocide, and pushing through weapons in Ukraine to further US interests while only Ukrainians are slaughtered.

Why dress it up?

dmcdona

I'm not dressing anything up and I'm not familiar with the details of the Ukraine war.

https://youtu.be/FBp3xyradxk?feature=shared

dmcdona

...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68255843

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121752317#Comment_121752317

Even if the US/Biden changes it's mind in the next few months, the damage is done. The genocide is done. America and Biden will get no credit for withdrawing support (and I don't believe they will do that). Biden is a committed Zionist and has been his whole career.

Jack Daw

Even though I 100% support Israel's right to defend itself it is quite clear that Israel have been idiots throughout this recent chapter of this conflict it's also been quite clear that there is a percentage of Israeli's who appear to have a degree of glee over what is happening which is quite scummy just as the glee over the October 7th attacks was quite scummy as well. I think Israel's response has been disproportionate just like the bombing of Dresden and the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs were disproportionate.

They have been played like a fiddle by Hamas and the arab world.Hamas do not care about the Palestinian people one bit and are using them essentially as human shields so they can push the Evil Israeli's idea and gain sympathy world wide for  the Palestinian issue and islamic issues in general.Israel have done exactly what Hamas hoped they would and have effectively in the eyes of a lot of the world turned Israel into the bad guys.

If they want to get rid of Hamas and solve this situation once and for all they need to kill them with kindness and have killed Hamas leaders , cut the head off the snake and then went in took over Gaza and improved the lives of the Palestinians to the point where they realise how much Hamas was holding them back.People generally only need religious fundamentalism when their lives are so bad they have nothing else to hope for in life, improve the lives of the Palestinians under Israeli control add you'd play a part in eradicating Hamas and islamic fundamentalism.

All Israel's actions have achieved is to radicalise another generation of young Palestinians and young arabs and muslims against Israel.

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121752242#Comment_121752242

The point being discussed was whether Israel was preventing the Palestinians holding elections. The answer for Gaza was no, it’s Hamas.

I don’t agree that Gaza was/is occupied since 2005. It could have been a great place but when the government focus on tunnel life rather than beach life…

Not everything bad in the region is Israel’s fault.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121752613#Comment_121752613

Important points; Hamas could end this conflict tomorrow, by surrendering. Their objective, however, isn't winning anything - just killing. They don't have any traditional 'war' objectives - if they did, you'd have expected them to sue for peace by now.

But, they'd rather sacrifice their fellow Gazans, they don't value Gazan lives. Remember they steal aid, too, as that brave Gazan grandmother said to Al Jazeera.

And they have tonnes of support, like Iran, and the Houthis.

Timberrrrrrrr

And here we are, another day another israeli caught out with her lies

Sandra Ifrah, the spokesperson for Women United for Peace, admits that the story of the Israeli female detainees, in whom 67 different sperm were found, was a lie.

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121752611#Comment_121752611

Jack

A fair bit to agree with in this.

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121752664#Comment_121752664

I think (just my opinion) that Hamas get more sustenance from all the protests/rallies etc that Israel takes chastisement. Ie, I think there a lot of useful idiots in the West who unwittingly may contribute to the conflict continuing longer than necessary as Hamas hope Israel will be told to stop before Hamas infrastructure etc in Gaza is totally destroyed.

Hey boy

Fairly scary that according to the IT article, Israel had declared UNWRA HQ in Gaza clear only to be told by Palestinians to go back and dig down to find the infrastructure below ground. It could take a long time to root all such infrastructure out.