Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121985089#Comment_121985089

These people are literally the equivalent of Nazi supporters of our time. Absolute scum and should be treated as such. Vermin.

Israel was absolutely entitled to respond but they crossed the line far more than was justifiable.

Modern Evil.

Fuascailteoir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121985662#Comment_121985662

Is a complex and dangerous process to provide humanitarian assistance in a disaster zone. A lot of the workers would have built up specific skills and knowledge to provide logistical support to get assistance to where it needs to go

Strazdas

Interestingly, even The Times Of Israel is becoming extremely critical of the regime's handling of the war, admits the conflict is going badly, that famine is looming in Gaza and that the regime is also losing the PR battle - this week definitely seems to have been a major turning point.

Fr D Maugire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121985033#Comment_121985033

The irony of you claiming others not knowing history. Remind us again, who exactly created all the States and borders in the post Ottoman empire? Were they created by the peoples who actually lived in the region or were they created by Western powers for their own vested interests? Whose decision was it to create a Jewish state in a region that was overwhelmingly Muslim, was it the people who lived in the region or was it outsiders? If the Arabs had been offered the simple rights of democracy and self-determination, maybe the whole thing might have still turned to crap, but it would all have been on their own shoulders. Unfortunately Western meddling and self-interest pretty much guaranteed it was always going to be a ****-show, just exactly as was predicted by the US Commission in 1920.

Strazdas

Headline is self explanatory. This probably would have been very unlikely as a headline even a week ago.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121986325#Comment_121986325

It's hard to make sense of it all lately, suddenly a call for an end to the war after 3 Brits were killed, but not after 33k Gazans have been killed. If those aid workers had not have been killed, most countries (UK/USA) would not be changing their tune so suddenly.

I think Israel must stay the course and remove Hamas from power or else we will be back to square one. The problem is that it is taking Israel so long because the enemy dresses as civilians and hides behind women and children. The conundrum for Israel is if it speeds up the process the casualty rate is higher and the international criticism is stronger. A long drawn out war is also not in Israel's interest either. There is no easy solution. But the removal of Hamas i.e. the removal of hate, is what is necessary for the peace process to begin.

Another thing about western politicians, they say things just to make themselves more popular. Not that they actually mean what they say.

drury..

Hamas is an idealogy imo and killing people doesn't remove it

Remains to be seen what the consequences of this war are

sock.rocker*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121986426#Comment_121986426

You can't remove hate by killing tens of thousands of civilians and causing a famine for millions which people understandably view as an attempt to kill off the population. Remember the map that didn't have Palestine on it.

Hate for Israel is at the highest it's ever been right now and will stay like this for decades.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121986426#Comment_121986426

Hamas dresses as infants? Is that the new excuse being trotted out? Some genocides take years, maybe a quick genocide would go unnoticed? 33k dead in 6 months or 6 days is still 33k dead.

Some western politicians are actually putting pen to paper in the form of signing open letters, it's not off the cuff remarks they are making. It's also distancing themselves from what looks like a genocidal campaign.

As the poster above mentioned, Hamas is an ideology, you can kill it by killing civilians, in fact the opposite happens, it strengthens the hate. Don;t be blind and ignore the hate that is thought in classrooms in Israel either.

And before a snide reply, Gaza has no classrooms left for Hamas to teach hate in. The IDF are teaching those children in Gaza what hate looks like.

Even Fatah blames Hamas for the current situation. If Hamas were more like Fatah this thread wouldn't even exist and so many lives would of been saved.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/fatah-hits-back-at-other-palestinian-groups-criticism-over-new-pa-prime-minister/

Hamas is evil beyond belief, they burnt jews alive on Oct 7th, decapitating them, raping the women while chopping off their breasts and baking babies. Around 1200 hundred killed that day and more than 240 taken hostages.

They took the hostages back to Gaza, parading them about naked, humiliating them and then celebrating what they did with the other Palestinians laughing and cheering them on. Thats absolutely disgusting. And then they continued to beat and rape them repeatedly as hostages. Still Hamas has hostages now that Israel needs to free. Hamas is beyond hatred, it's evil. They have brainwashed the Palestinians and their children to normalise such vile acts against the Jews.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/03/04/hamas-rape-un-report-hostages/

lt's plainly obvious here people's bias, that they don't hold Hamas to the same standard that they hold Israel. Everyday it's about hatred against Israel, a rarity you might get one line to say that they don't like Hamas but the 99 percent of it, is about how much they hate Israel.

I think part of it is down to cultures within those groups that don't allow for critical thinking, they don't accept criticism internally, it can only be directed towards Israel and the jews. Or else those people would be kicked out of the pro palestine groups. That must be the most anti democratic thing ever, western governments are constantly been criticised here by the people so that they can be improved. And Hamas are also a government that should be criticised for its awful decisions and held responsible for its devastating invasion of Israel, which was an act of war. Israel's mandate remains to free all the hostages and remove Hamas from power.

sock.rocker*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121986721#Comment_121986721

You should have been born in a time where sieges were commonplace and lived to experience one.

Anyone who justifies the siege and starvation of millions of people does not deserve to exist in a world built by better people. It's beyond revolting.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121986796#Comment_121986796

Thats is just Hamas propaganda. Israel's retaliation is directed at Hamas members only.

If Hamas surrendered, this war would be over. Where is the pressure for Hamas to surrender?! Seems some people and neighbouring countries, only want to keep the pressure on Israel. Interesing that! They're are making sure Israel looks bad, that Israel looks like the aggressor when in fact Israel is defending itself from terrorism and rescuing the hostages.

We can't have a successful democracy in the middle east can we?! Especially by them Jews?! No it has to be dragged down by the likes of Iran and it's proxies.

Its shameful that the west are falling for their propaganda tricks. And with the rise of anti-Semitism in the west, you can see that their propaganda campaign is working.

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121986840#Comment_121986840

Whats your take on the "settlers" and "settlements" in the occupied territories?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121205789#Comment_121205789

This didn't age well

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121986840#Comment_121986840

1.1 million on the verge of famine and 33000 dead is not propaganda

We have Israeli soldiers saying that they can kill up to 20 civilians per Hamas target too, and that they are relying on AI to not even confirm targets, but suggest targets.

They are playing a guessing game and ordinary gazans are paying the price

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121986967#Comment_121986967

The data provided by the Hamas health ministry is unreliable. Hamas is a terrorist organisation and cannot be trusted.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121986898#Comment_121986898

Hamas being retconned into heroic good guys, this is the same idealogy that is making antisemitism = anti-genocide, we are only a few weeks from someone claiming the Nazi's were combating islamophobia.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121987054#Comment_121987054

It's deemed pretty accurate by an awful lot more agencies. If anything, the death figures are likely to be underestimated.

The starvation figures are not from Hamas. There are other agencies on the ground confirming.

You can't with a straight face saying it's all propaganda while spouting some of the absolute bullshit being spun but Israel's spokespeople.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121986898#Comment_121986898

It didnt, and it's not fully accurate. Israeli forces killed 234 pestinians in the west bank from Jan 1 to Oct 7. Mostly civilians. They terrorized thousands of refugees too from May-July and dropped missiles, drone fire and used lethal force multiple times in Gaza.

Not a defence of Hamas at all. Awful people and the world would be better without them. But October 7 was an escalatory retaliation. It was not the beginning of any conflict. The IDF and Israeli police had been killing with impunity all year long.

This information is not from HAMAS. It's from sources linked earlier on that a few people really need to have a long hard look at before the constantly leap to the defence of Israel and the IDF.

Now, I don't share Odhinns celebratory feeling. I've repeatedly acknowledged at times the problems of Hamas, but they are not the only problem and not necessarily even the biggest so long as the IDF are permitted to act like they do. They are as guilty of terrorism as Hamas are, but it's not called that.

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121986155#Comment_121986155

In fairness to the Times I've always found their articles reasonably balanced considering they are supposed to be a right wing publication (their opinion articles are more biased)

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121984448#Comment_121984448

They clearly have a problem with the state of Israel, but you claimed they want to eradicate all Jews. So if that's the case I am asking why have they not started with the Jews in their own country? Also if they truly believe in jihadism/ martyrdom why have they not launched all out war against Israel to try and annihilate all the Jews and be rewarded in paradise. It seems to be all cow dung much like the Hamas folks in Qatar who say they love death over life, while tucked away in Qatar living a grand life in their villas.

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121986886#Comment_121986886

I missed the answer you gave. You might be good enough to repeat it.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121984219#Comment_121984219

Well all the evidence to date I see does not match the rhetoric from the Iranian Leadership about Jihad and wanting to annihilate all the Jews. It's extremely distasteful but it's an empty threat. There is no existential threat to the state of Israel. They have one of the most powerful armies in the world and are backed up by the strongest army in the world

Some posters seem to want to cry antisemitism and use the idea of an existential threat as a shield to excuse Israel of any wrongdoing. That's not how it works if a country claims to be a democratic state with western values. Why do you think even Israel's allies are criticising their conduct ? Why won't the British Government publish their legal advice on the war in Gaza if Israel has not done anything wrong. We can be fairly sure they wouldn't cite that the information is confidential regarding legal opinion about Russia's invasion of Ukraine. They would have no problem publishing what the advice was.

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121986898#Comment_121986898

It was made before the acts against civillians became evident, which I condemn. I stand over the remarks re Fatah.

Frank Grimes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121987136#Comment_121987136

And if the figures were in any doubt, the Israeli government would be using every opportunity to deny them, or provide their own, but that seems to be totally lost on some.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121987054#Comment_121987054

Do you trust US Intelligence? There was an article in the Washington Post that stated US Intelligence believes the figures supplied by the Health Ministry are broadly accurate. Also other outside bodies have reached similar conclusions. Is there a certain figure of civilians deaths that you deem acceptable? Does this apply to Israel also? For example say If 15-20 Israeli civilians died alongside 2 idf members in an airstrike. Would you just pass it off as civilians die in war. I have a feeling you wouldn't.

sock.rocker*

This will to down as one of the most atrocious events of this century and people like chuchu will be telling their grandkids that the history book they're studying is all wrong and it was all a conspiracy and a lie from Hamas.

combat14

the real reason iran is slow to directly attack israel:

"Iran's currency, rial, reached another historic low on Saturday, breaking through the 650,000 threshold and dropping to 653,000 per US dollar, as tensions increased with Israel.

The plunge, the highest ever exchange rate recorded for the American currency in Iran, marks a nearly 30 percent decline for the rial since early January."

inflation in iran is already at 50% with tens of millions of iranians living on 200 dollars a month - ripe picking for overthrowing the regime there

instead iran seem more likely to continue their hamas, hezbollah, houthis etc. proxy terrorist plan by arming jordan based islamist fighters to attack israel on all fronts - which is less risk for them

https://www.iranintl.com/en/202404060396

https://www.iranintl.com/en/202404065216

Frank Grimes

deleted, not bothered.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121987736#Comment_121987736

And a not-insignificant percentage of the population in the US lives on food stamps and in poverty while their government hands over billions of dollars and also directly arms a terrorist State in the Middle East.

So I am sure that you will reach the same conclusion as regards the US as you have with Iran.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121987306#Comment_121987306

I am surprised at how so open some of their recent reporting has been and how they are freely discussing the humanitarian crisis in Gaza (at least the Israeli public and the regime fans in the West are in no position to plead ignorance of it, not when the Israeli press itself are reporting it).

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121987843#Comment_121987843

I think we are viewing it from the lens whereby we expect people reading about such atrocities would recoil in revulsion from them.

In reality, while some surely would do that, I gather from what we have seen that many of their audience would be celebrating even harder the more depraved the actions are.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121986840#Comment_121986840

Thats is just Hamas propaganda. Israel's retaliation is directed at Hamas members only.

And women and children and babies babies babies and international aid workers and journalists and Doctors Without Borders and

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121987054#Comment_121987054

Israel is a terrorist state that kills international journalists internationalist aid workers international doctors, women and children. Who cannot be trusted again

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121987525#Comment_121987525

The figures are probably underestimated. There are 8,000 missing people under the rubble, many of them children. Israel know this and don't comment.

combat14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121987901#Comment_121987901

who shall we trust so - hamas the terrorist kidnappers - invite them to the electric picnic here and see what happens

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121987916#Comment_121987916

You think Israel aren’t kidnapping? Trust the internationals.

sock.rocker*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121987916#Comment_121987916

Are you capable of more complex thought than thinking if one side is very bad, the other side must be very good? Genuine question.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121987916#Comment_121987916

You know there are 1000s of Palestinians "imprisoned" with no charge. And this is not a new thing

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121987950#Comment_121987950

And yet the Palestinian prisoners released during the truce in November were people like the girl who stabbed her pregnant neighbour in front of the neighbour's other children. If there are are so many genuinely innocent Palestinians in Israeli jails, why didn't Hamas prioritise their release instead of putting convicted murderers or attempted murderers on their lists?

Overheal

the Israeli Ministry of ‘Justice’ decided the list of people who could be released

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/11/24/who-were-the-palestinian-prisoners-israel-released-on-friday

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121988081#Comment_121988081

Never mind that, sure I even heard that one of the Palestinians being held hostage in an Israeli prison was accused - albeit not charged - of parking on a double yellow line once

What makes her crime all the worse is that she was only 14 years old and didn't have a car…….and yet people would try to convince you she is not a Hamas terrorist

Overheal

Pelosi, another noted lifetime zionist, calls for new hold on continuing military aid

https://www.mediaite.com/biden/pelosi-joins-dem-lawmakers-in-calling-for-biden-to-stop-giving-us-weapons-to-israel/

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121988081#Comment_121988081

That's a question you'll have to ask Hamas and Israel. It doesn't change the facts of what I said, the that loads are imprisoned for no reason whatsoever

There are many being held simply for the crime of being Palestinian pretty much, is bureaucracy has them in prison without charge.

Like why on earth was the 16 year old girl out in prison for slapping an IDF soldier. The IDF tortured her brother in front of her for no reason whatsoever in broad daylight. They should be in prison, not her.

Igotadose

A set of interviews with some Hamas leaders done by the Huffington Post.

Hamas will not accept a peacekeeping force.

Hamas claims that it was some other group doing the atrocities on 7 October (PLF or whoever).

Lots of interesting observations.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/hamas-gaza-biden-israel-interview_n_660c54c2e4b09f580bc5bcb2

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121989144#Comment_121989144

But if you don't know stuff like that, clearly you don't know (are relying on Hamas propaganda) for the rest of your information.

I don't know what your point is about the alleged slapping incident in this context - and I do know that a minor who was found guilty of attempted murder of a pregnant woman was among those released at the demand of Hamas, in exchange for women and children who were suspected of nothing except being Jewish. That's fact: the Israelis who were released in November were captured while at home or at a concert, doing no harm to anyone. The Palestinians who were released were all arrested, suspected or actually found guilty of various forms of violence.

I'm sure some of those released were innocent, but that doesn't seem to have been a criterion Hamas were interested in, so unless you think they should not have been released until they'd been through a trial and been proven innocent, that's not relevant.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121989227#Comment_121989227

Amnesty internationals numerous reports on Palestinian prisoners in israeli jails are Hamas propaganda. Okay then

I supposed the very detailed monthly un reports on the violence in west bank and gaza are Hamas propaganda too.

Human rights watch must also be Hamas propaganda.

I think you're the one falling for the propaganda if you keep going out on a limb to make baseless accusations

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121989252#Comment_121989252

Claims of antisemitism in this thread are mostly uninformed, baseless and nothing short of inflammatory.

And it's coming from people who won't deal with the facts that are to hand of what's currently happening and don't want a discussion or can't construct a proper counterpoint. It's deflection. Smear people with a label, that'll learn them

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121989687#Comment_121989687

I don't think you have the faintest idea what facism is. More hand washing for IDF crimes here .

Ignorance of the 234 dead Palestinians at hands of IDF from Jan 1 to October 6th. Ignorance of decades of illegal settlements. Ignorance of 1000s imprisoned for no reason.

Israel is no place to be banging on about liberalism