Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Akrasia

Do you know nothing about Hamas? How did you think they would react?

Potatoeman

Don’t worry, all your support of these loons will be paid back in blood.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68769669

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122002676#Comment_122002676

Go ahead and explain, in great detail, how opposing the Israeli actions in Gaza is support of Islamic State.

TheValeyard

Some countries are suspending flights to Iran.

Iran themselves have closed Tehran airspace and cancelled all military leave and issued a return to barrack for military.

Frank Grimes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003417#Comment_122003417

It's always very predictable in these types of threads. The barstool theologians show up sooner or later to give very in depth explanations (in their minds) as to why all Muslims are the same and think the same and therefore, in this case, all Palestinians think the same as ISIS therefore supporting Palestinians = supporting ISIS. All the time ignoring the fact that that all Muslims don't think the same (they always ignore this) and, in this specific case, will demonstrate their ignorance of what they're trying to argue as it is common knowledge to people who have any idea what they're talking about that not all Palestinians are Muslims. But yeah, having a problem with Israel mass murdering Palestinians is bad, because ISLAM.

batman75

The sad reality is Biden will only come down hard on Israel if he thinks his re-election chances are harmed by not doing so. His condemnation of the Israeli means of executing it's war on Hamas rings hollow as he supplies them with weapons to kill tens of thousands of Palestinians. He is as guilty as Netanyahu in this genocide let their be no doubt about this.

Israel or more precisely Netanyahu is hoping that Iran responds militarily to the strike on the consulate in Damascus. He knows that they have lost the PR war and are not militarily defeating Hamas, which was always BS as Hamas is as much an ideology as an army. If the Iranian's are smart they will continue to show restraint and not attack Israel directly. Israel is committing repeated and worsening acts of self harm and eventually on it's current course will bleed out.

Netanyahu is right when he says the two state solution is dead. The only viable state is a Palestinian state in which Jews live. He has destroyed Israel as we have known it since 1948. He cannot eradicate the Palestinians and he has made Israel in it's current guise untenable.

Once the genocide ends and at some point elections are called in Israel Netanyahu is goosed. He will be facing judicial proceedings for corruption. Their is a train of thought that Netanyahu allowed the attacks on October 7 to occur to justify his war on/genocide of the Palestinians in Gaza. It seems inconceivable that a country so well secured militarily could be breached like it was on October 7 without purposeful negligence.

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003455#Comment_122003455

Iranian airspace is open and flights are proceeding as normal.

The original claim of airspace closures and mobilisation orders all seem related to russian disinformation accounts.

Attached is a screenshot of current FR24 flights over Iran. I've also seen zero credible evidence of Iranian mobilisation orders. Happy to stand corrected if anyone has firm info.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003642#Comment_122003642

For the umpteen time there is no genocide happening there, even the US say so.

“We don’t have any evidence of genocide being created,” Austin said in testimony before the US Senate Armed Services Committee regarding US President Joe Biden’s latest budget request.

I don't know about you, but I would take the word of the US over Hamas, any day of the week.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003681#Comment_122003681

The US officials saying that is not proof of the negative. That is laughable to try and pull out as an argument. The one nation on earth who almost universally backs Israel, except for the other week when it merely abstained from a resolution, yeah okay. PULL ANOTHER

Overheal

take the word of the UN, with proof positive reporting

https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/anatomy-genocide-report-special-rapporteur-situation-human-rights-palestinian-territories-occupied-1967-francesca-albanese-ahrc5573-advance-unedited-version

You guys need to understand geo politics and propaganda and how it works. They are countries like Nicaragua, russia, china, iran, south Africa etc and organisations like BRICS etc. They are designed to undermine the west. I would much rather the Israelis arms suppliers such as US, UK, Germany etc., to be our allies that the other lot or god forbid even Hamas.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003699#Comment_122003699

You guys need to understand geo politics and propaganda and how it works.

This is rich coming from the poster who just cited The US Secretary of Defense to allege there is no genocide happening in Gaza.

The UN Rapporteur is not from BRICS. Keep digging this hole.

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/anatomy-of-a-genocide-report-of-the-special-rapporteur-on-the-situation-of-human-rights-in-the-palestinian-territory-occupied-since-1967-to-human-rights-council-advance-unedited-version-a-hrc-55/

ToweringPerformance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122001316#Comment_122001316

A true reflection of how cowardly Biden is. It's all about the votes.

Oscar_Madison

It’s wishful thinking that Iran will heed the words of Biden and not attack Israel - these sort of statements just show how fcked up this whole mess is- Biden is just electioneering .

Hamas were pr1cks for doing what they did - Israel had a right to retaliate but after the first few weeks I believe they should have explored more peaceful means - I supported Israel in its right to retaliate but it’s genocide at this stage .

But Hamas has a lot of this blood on their hands too- given Israel’s might and anger they knew what they were doing - they’re sacrificing their own people for their own means - I hope most of Hamas are dead now, but before their children become radicalised into that cult, both countries need to agree peace or we’ll still be watching a version of this in 50 years time

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13295143/Joe-Biden-vows-ironclad-support-Israel-amid-fears-missile-attack-Iran-imminent-Tehran-clears-airspace-military-drills.html

combat14

if iran attacks israel in a US election year who knows what will happen

it is just the excuse the US and Israel have been waiting for years to bomb the absolute shite out of the iranian nuclear program

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003872#Comment_122003872

there’s nothing like a good olde war to distract from low polls in an election year

Rezident

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003841#Comment_122003841

And what, pray tell, are the "peaceful means" of dealing with Hamas? Google 'Hamas sex crimes'.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122002317#Comment_122002317

How else would he react to be fair? Do what the Israelis want and pull out of the peace negotiations?

I would be looking at the other side though. Israel deliberately targeted and killed them because they were his children and grandchildren. Is this acceptable? It was their first visit back to the family home to celebrate Eid.

Are current/past IDF soldiers and their children and grandchildren also legitimate targets now?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004320#Comment_122004320

What is your obsession with googling that? You've encouraged people to do it a number of times. Is it some sort of referral scheme?

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004320#Comment_122004320

I’m well aware of Hamas atrocities - they’re essentially a cult run by madmen - nothing to do with religion or whatever rubbish they’re pedalling - but if they don’t want to be smushed into the ground they’re going to have to talk to Israel and come to an agreement - the very fact they’re letting 1000s of innocent people die is all we need to know about them - I don’t need Google to educate me

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003637#Comment_122003637

ISIS emerged from the ashes of toppled governments amid the 'war on terror'. ISIS and other extremists thrive in chaos, violence and amongst the dispossessed, disaffected, hopeless and angry people.

Treating terrorism as crime, and targetting your response at the criminals and their resources is by far the most effective way to destroy those organisations.

Retaliating, by attacking innocent people is so obviously counter productive.

Terrorism thrives on propaganda. After the 'War on Terror' began in 2001, the amount of global islamic extremism massively increased. It didn't go down.

Every new 'Martyr' is another entry in the ISIS/Al Qaeda/Hesbollah/Hamas recruitment pamphlet

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003898#Comment_122003898

Well thank fu^k we historically never had any muslims in this country and were able to escape any form of religious conflict over the centuries.

How can someone live in Ireland and only be aware of conflict or issues that they can connect somehow to Islam? ……. you don't even have to leave the island to find counterexamples.

Do they sit at home wondering why all those Russian muslims are invading and attacking the Ukrainian muslims?

Akrasia

'Even' the US?

That's like a murderer taking the stand on trial and saying 'I can't be guilty, even my own mother and all my accomplices to the alleged crime say I'm innocent'

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003898#Comment_122003898

All of them.

Every single world religion has at some time in the past, had genocidal wars waged in it's name.

Rezident

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003461#Comment_122003461

No, the problem is not 'Muslims' as you say, the problem is radical Islam. Radical Islam is unable to live in peace with anyone, even with other Islamists who have been killing each other, inter alia, since 632AD.

Obviously most Muslims are not radical, but in The Palestinian Territories, it is an extreme situation, as any of us who have been there know. If you have not been there you cannot conceive of the true context. In the last elections they voted for Hamas! Who do you think is hiding and supporting Hamas and who was cheering for them on October 7th as they raped young girls to death? Look at the videos, Palestinian women are cheering for girls being raped to death. It reminds me of the recorded call of the Russian soldier recently where his Russian wife was telling him to rape Ukrainian women. Imagine telling your partner to do that. In our naive little Irish bubble, we really do not understand the mentality on either side (luckily for us), let alone the dynamics between them.

They are not even all Islamic in Palestine (yet), it used to be 10% Christian although the Christian population in the Palestinian territories has fallen to 1% and most were not killed by the IDF.

As we saw when Jordan took in Yasser Arafat and the Palestinians, these extremists cannot live in peace with anyone, even with the very moderate Muslims in Jordan (have we already forgotten what the Palestinians did to Jordan?) so I don't see how we can expect them to live in peace beside the Jews. It cannot happen, our whole premise is invalid. Ireland's colossal bias on the issue has gone from looking quaint and naive to downright uninformed, unbalanced and dangerous.

But I suppose picking a side and remaining wilfully blind to the other side (when Iran nukes Israel, will we turn a blind eye to a few million more deaths, as long as they are on 'the other side'? Just look away...) is easier than fixing our own problems in Ireland. And you'll only be wrong half the time which would improve the Irish government's record!

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004413#Comment_122004413

If you want to form your prejudices based on isolated incidents, feel free to look back a few pages to the article I posted about the ultra orthodox jew stabbing multiple people at an LGBT parade. He wasn't long out of prison for committing a similar act previously.

When you've done that, come back and let us know whether it is still fine to categorise all based on the actions of a few.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004413#Comment_122004413

that’s one thing I don’t get about this current conflict - the whole “taking sides” thing - the barbaric act against Israel and innocent people last year was unforgivable- while Israel had a right to retaliate, it had gone way too far after the first month - it’s now genicide type territory - however, you still wouldn't get me waving a Palestinian flag on a bridge over a motorway as I see many groups doing every Saturday morning, many of them Irish , looking for “honks of support” from passing motorists. That to me is just makes no sense whatsoever

Iran is governed by radical Islamic theocratic extremists — effectively no different to ISIS-type savagery.

Just as we wouldn't want ISIS to possess nuclear weapons, the same should apply to Iran.

If Iran attacks Israel, I hope the latter go out of their way to permanently end their nuclear program.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004353#Comment_122004353

I would imagine that it is a lot easier to have the mentality that you are going to die by the hands of others (be that quick or slowly over time) and that you would prefer to go out on your own terms when that is actually the case in reality.

Give a 13 year old kid access to normal things such as education and hopes and technology and see whether it is easier or more difficult to radicalise him compared to a 13 year old who has witnessed his family home being bombed, all his family killed around him and no hope for the future.

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004413#Comment_122004413

Where are you getting the notion that Arafat was a religous fanatic? You do realise that the PLO were/are in the main secular?

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004456#Comment_122004456

Iran wouldn’t be “attacking” israel, they’d be defending themselves. israel have already attacked Iran.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004630#Comment_122004630

Iran is funding proxies through Hamas and Hezbollah to strike Israel. Iran is complicit as the casus belli of this war, and so Israel has every right to defend itself by attacking Iranian forces.

Iran is promoting radical extremist ideology which includes the idea that Israel should be wiped off the map.

Iran aren't defending themselves. They're just anti-Semitic and would remain anti-Semitic even if a Palestinian state were established.

Israel was every right to combat the threat to their existence posed from Iran.

Strazdas

The regime are angry with Simon Harris and his comments to the Dáil (which suggests he is off to a good start on Israel).

https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0411/1442865-harris-europe/

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004413#Comment_122004413

How many times did nationalists vote for Sinn Fein during the troubles? They were the political wing of a terrorist organisation. And that terrorist organisation comitted horrific atrocities. They threw bombs into bars and resteraunts. They bombed hotels and shopping streets. More catholics were killed by the IRA than were killed by the british army. And they refused to recognise the existence of northern Ireland. SF still refuse to take seats in parliament. And for yewars they even refused to officially recognise the existance of the freestate and later the republic.

I won't say Irish people understand what it's like to be Palestinian, but we're closer to an understanding than most European countries.

The people of Palestine have been occupied and abused for decades. I despise Hamas but Hamas were only elected after the PLO failed to make any progress. Palestinians had tried the path of secular political parties and it failed. I honestly can'y say that if I'd grown up in gaza i would not have voted for them. They same way, even thought I despise SF, I might have voted for them if I'd grown up in Belfast before/during the troubles.

BTW, Christians have been killing each other for far longer than muslims. And probably in far greater numbers. Our own country is an example of that where one christian sect dominated another. Jews were killing each other long before christianity came around. Right wing christians are funding settlements in the occupied territories because they believe it will bring about the end of the world. Jewish settlers are ultra right wing people who believe that thousands of years ago God gave them a define right to land that other people are living on. They killed over 100 children in the west bank in 2023. Will you give Christians and jews the same treatment criticism you give Muslims.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004641#Comment_122004641

I do think he should have mentioned the hostages but I don't like that Israel, and a few of their supporters,go through speeches to nick pick on phrases or omissions, while they willfully continue to kill thousands of civilians. International politics really is farcical. Exemplified by israels carryon.

Shelga

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2024/04/11/israeli-ambassador-dana-erlich-a-unilateral-recognition-of-a-palestinian-state-at-this-point-sends-a-dangerous-signal/

The Irish Times is publishing propaganda of the Israeli state. Whilst I don’t agree with the expulsion of the ambassador, this still rankles.

As expected, not once does Dana Erlich acknowledge the deaths of 33,000+ Palestinians at the hands of her government. Every single thing is the fault of Hamas. It really is utterly shameful and immoral.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004925#Comment_122004925

"
The people of Palestine have been occupied and abused for decades. I despise Hamas but Hamas were only elected after the PLO failed to make any progress. Palestinians had tried the path of secular political parties and it failed. I honestly can'y say that if I'd grown up in gaza i would not have voted for them. They same way, even thought I despise SF, I might have voted for them if I'd grown up in Belfast before/during the troubles."

Hamas were briefly in government with Fatah. Then, they killed the Fatah politicians.

Lest we forget, the PLO/Fatah are responsible for the Munich massacre in 1972

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005461#Comment_122005461

I think the letter only makes Dana Erlich look bad. The Israelis seem clueless at PR . To be honest Dana would be in good company in this thread with others not acknowledging the ongoing deaths of Palestinians in Gaza

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005566#Comment_122005566

She was accurate and concise about the issues she wanted to bring up. Why was she banned from the FG Ard Fheis? If you're looking for 'what wasn't said,' she's mentioned plenty of things Ireland could have said since after 7 October and haven't. Barely a peep out of Ireland criticising Hamas.

Russia is making war on Europe, the Russian embassy is a nest of spies, yet, no cry to expel the Russian ambassador whose country is taking action directly against Irish interests.

(TBF, some Boardsies have called on the Russian ambassador to be expelled and the embassy closed.)

And, what would Ireland be saying if that Irish girl hadn't been released in the November round of hostage release? Almost as if Hamas knew her nationality…

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004641#Comment_122004641

let him target Hamas too while he’s at it- bunch of terrorists

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005647#Comment_122005647

It was pretty pathetic of Harris to not even mention the hostages, especially after all the news about the Irish girl Emily Hand who was covered extensively in the press here, then released in November.

Hamas leaders probably assume they're dead once the hostages are released. I doubt they're in a hurry and they obviously don't care who gets killed.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005638#Comment_122005638

She is a representative of a country that has killed 13k children in the last six months. Maybe she should complain about that rather than not being invited to the FG Ardfheis. It is completely tone deaf to complain about what other counties have said or not said when your county's action are so much worse.

I'm not asking for her to be expelled or are FG so I don't get your reference to Russia. I would say she would have got a frosty reception at the ard fheis if she would have been invited.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003825#Comment_122003825

Nothing unique to Biden, he's made his thoughts clear but being an election year has limited his scope for practical action. That POS Johnson, the Republican speaker, is literally willing to let Russia have Ukraine with a likely death toll in the millions and a refugee crisis the likes of which the world has never seen, all to help Trump get re-elected.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005675#Comment_122005675

ah yeah I get that - but considering our neutrality stance or what’s left of it, a bit of balance would help here in terms of optics - only calling out Israel again and again and not ever referring to the atrocities of Hamas when whole countries are calling for the destruction of Israel gives the impression at least that Ireland is “siding” - we’ve absolutely nothing to gain from doing that and a lot to lose- asking both sides to turn away from violence and to allow dialogue to commence is the typical non statement we should stick to - call out atrocities by all means but call out both sides - there’s nothing wrong with saying Hamas original acts last year was murder but now Israel is heading towards genocide - both are wrong

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005954#Comment_122005954

when you see it written down in simple black and white like that it’s a fcked up world isn’t it?

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006006#Comment_122006006

Harris did address the hostages and the Hamas attacks in his speech to the Ard Fheis on Saturday:

"In Gaza we see a humanitarian catastrophe worsen before our eyes.

We condemn the massacre carried out by Hamas in October and again call for the release of all hostages.

But we cannot stay silent on the actions of Israel either."

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006045#Comment_122006045

fair enough -I guess all I’m seeing or hearing is the criticism of Israel- thanks for highlighting that it’s good to know - maybe he should consider prepositioning each criticism of Israel though with something similar - otherwise he’ll be rightly accused of just siding and really I don’t think it’s that simple - with Russia yes it is that simple but with this particular conflict I think we need to balance statements every time

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006045#Comment_122006045

That he said it doesn't matter. It isn't a good faith argument in the first place. The zionists will bring it up ad nauseam regardless. Pure deflection and attempt to own and profit off the suffering of others at a point in time

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005755#Comment_122005755

So, you're OK with Harris not mentioning the hostages in Gaza?

Because the ambassador's not wrong for criticising him for that.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006045#Comment_122006045

No doubt after the Ambassador called him up on it for his speech to the Dail on Tuesday.

And, wouldn't it have been more effective for him to have the Ambassador present at the Ard Fheis to hear it?