Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

boetstark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122168673#Comment_122168673

Ireland is only a nasty spot on the ass of decent countries.

Most respectable countries and governments hold back on such nonsense until Hamas is destroyed and their influence in Palestine is eradicated

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170675#Comment_122170675

Are you even Irish, do you even live here? You seem to post in this thread only to insult Ireland, but if we matter so little why do you bother?

boetstark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122168780#Comment_122168780

Great group of countries, ireland fits in well

Madd Finn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122167819#Comment_122167819

Nonsense!!!

"This isn't an Arab/Israeli thing…" What are you talking about? It's quintessentially an Arab Israeli thing. At the end of the day they are the peoples who will have to work out a way of coexisting peacefully with each other.

Of course, external powers take an interest. They always do in local conflicts in which they seek to further their own interests. But Iran didn't instigate the Israel/Arab or even Israel/Palestine conflict. Any more than the Germans instigated the Irish Home Rule crisis of 1912-14. Sure. They exploited it for their own ends, by giving guns to BOTH sides—Unionist and Nationalist because their best interests were served by encouraging a debilitating civil war inside the United Kingdom. But the conditions for that crisis were caused without any German input whatsoever.

I accept that relatively powerless countries like Ireland, Norway and Spain recognising Palestinian statehood is something of a "take the knee" gesture but when combined with the earlier recognitions by many other countries around the world, including several smaller EU countries, the momentum is building for a solution that just might be the basis for a lasting peace.

Israel has been quite content to stomach a bantustan/Indian reservation style solution in which millions of Palestinians are herded into a non viable "strip" of land, starved of the means of independent living and subjected to periodic devastating attacks when the pressure gets too much. But October 7th shows where that policy leads.

Israel is great at winning wars. All that means is they have to keep fighting them. Winning a war and winning a peace are two different things. Pity the Israelis are so clueless about the second challenge.

boetstark

The only thing strong about Ireland is its debit balance.

Still owes a s#itload of money that hasn't been paid back.

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170610#Comment_122170610

The reason is that now that Ireland / Spain and Norway have recognised Palestine these countries have nothing to stop them from immediately proceeding to build a European pier in Gaza and spend billions on providing aid

And hence the social commentators in these countries can continue to blame US military and Biden for trying to offer aid without appearing like a complete bunch of **** hypocrites

/s

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170663#Comment_122170663

Read the last few pages (beside proceeding to attack instead of debate posters) of this thread, page after page of giving out about Biden and Americans without a shred of irony as our own countries are doing nothing beside “symbolic gestures”

Symbolism won’t feed the people of Gaza nor get rid of HAMAS as you yourself have now admitted

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170733#Comment_122170733

Very childish behaviour

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170603#Comment_122170603

That comment was made the guts of 4 months ago but anyway..

I've heard that saying for years, and given the worst of Hamas and its ideology, there is a lot of truth to it. The Palestinian leadership are more than happy to sacrifice its people for a reactionary, fascist, religious and political cause.

Gerry T

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170692#Comment_122170692

He's not Irish, looking at his posts I had to look at his profile, not a very happy camper by the looks of things coming to Ireland. If below represents what he thinks of us he should get out fast, before we contaminate him.

—— Ireland is only a nasty spot on the ass of decent countries.

Most respectable countries and governments hold back on such nonsense until Hamas is destroyed and their influence in Palestine is eradicated

— — Great group of countries, ireland fits in well

— — The only thing strong about Ireland is its debit balance.

Still owes a s#itload of money that hasn't been paid back.

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170675#Comment_122170675

Do you actually know how many countries recognise Palestine?

boetstark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170692#Comment_122170692

NNot Irish , unfortunately live here for the moment through work. I stand by my opinions

boetstark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122171014#Comment_122171014

Yep. Most respectable well governed countries dont

Hellrazer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122171038#Comment_122171038

Could you not apply for a transfer out of the country if it pisses you off so much. Maybe to one of those countries where boards.ie is blocked so we wont have to listen to your moaning about us any more?

ujjjjjjjjj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170731#Comment_122170731

You are confusing two things. Prior to October 7th great strides were being made to normalise relations between Saudi and Egypt and Israel. Iran was deeply uncomfortable with this and October 7th was a vicious assault by Iran on these forward movements. Iran does not want to see anything that improves Arab Israeli relations as it means tolerating and accepting Israels right to exist. We are now effectively in a proxy war between Iran and Israel as Hamas are nothing but Iranian terrorist stooges. I have no doubt the Russians diplomatically encouraged this with Iran as it suits Russia, as it splits the West and distracts out attention from Ukraine. South Africa just another useful idiot in the Russian camp with the ICC nonsense. Israels immediate task is to elimate and degrade as much of Hamas's capacity as possible to protect itself. Where we go after that who knows and unless the Iranian regime collapses I won't hold out much hope of peace anytime soon as Hezbollah are more Iranian stooges on Israel's doorstep. The innocent civilians in Gaza I am afraid are just caught in the middle of all of this being used as pawns by Hamas to move Western sentiment against Israel and its working to some extent as you see with useful idiots like Harris and Spanish and Norwegian mistakes today as well. The problem is many people have conflated what is occurring here with the much older Israeli/Palestinian question but really what we have is a state Iran who wants to wipe Israel from the planet or failing that being viable, disrupt and involve Israel in warfare and controversy to at least prevent closer and peaceful ties with other Middle Eastern countries. While I am fully conversant and aware of the historical and continuing Arab Israeli questions, this I am afraid is another issue entirely and it's one which I fear will continue to run unless we see a dramatic collapse in Iran's awful regime.

boetstark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122171094#Comment_122171094

2028 is my time. Surely I am entitled to post my opinions. They may be different to alot of posters but isn't that what makes it a forum. Stuck with me until then I'm afraid

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122171095#Comment_122171095

Careful now, well nuanced and thought opinions based on facts get you labelled as ruZZian around these parts

But yeh spot on!

BaywatchHQ

Ireland hypocrites for recognising Palestine. Most citizens wouldn't even vote for a unified Ireland yet you stick your noses in foreign affairs. Virtue signaling.

Frank Grimes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122171128#Comment_122171128

Yes, calling Simon Harris a useful idiot is a profound critique of Irish foreign policy.

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122171095#Comment_122171095

Of course that only works if you ignore everything going on in the West Bank for the last years, which is what the Israelis want... Look away from our ethnic cleansing and settlement (which is in itself a war crime)

Frank Grimes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122171137#Comment_122171137

Recognising the sovereignty of another state isn't virtue signaling and calling it that demonstrates a total lack of understanding of international relations.

Sir_Name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122168298#Comment_122168298

I’ve been to Tel Aviv, never been to Gaza for obvious reasons. And the disparity in treatment was obvious then. Have you been there?

If everyone turned a blind eye World War Two wouldn’t have happened right? And where would we be now.

I agree Hamas is a major issue, however I’m also of the belief that Israel is too. They have proven they can bomb and attack quite accurately but choose not to in Gaza. Dumb bomsb etc. I still believe recognising a two state gives ordinary Palestinians something to hope and look toward rather than vengeance one generation after the next due to the apartheid treatment, stealing of land, brutal treatment by the Israelis. As was mentioned after the October attacks, I condemn Hamas. Doesn’t change the fact this didn’t happen “in a vacuum”

ujjjjjjjjj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122171140#Comment_122171140

Not trying to make anything 'work' and well aware of what has been going on in the West Bank. Plenty to be discussed and critiqued on both sides in the long running Arab / Israeli issues. But what is going on right now is a different matter. I honestly think many people struggle to understand this. I am very happy to discuss and look at issues on all sides in that long running conflict be it Israeli or Arab but now is really not the time. Iran and it's support for Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis etc (who are happy to sink and shoot at Western ships and tie up American, British and other naval vessels protecting your goods being delivered from the Far East….) is the issue at hand here. Hate to say it but behaviour from Harris today, Spain and Norway is exactly what HHH and Iran wants, we are literally playing into their hands. Of course the right wing nature of the current administration in Israel isn't helping optics or realities but Iran is more than aware of this as they do all they can to tip Western countries against Israel. Every bit of help we provide is being carefully noted in Tehran and Moscow too.

Toeuptony

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122168990#Comment_122168990

So the US have a law that permits them to break international law. Lunacy! Imagine if they actually tried to use it to launch such an action in a Nato partner's country.

Madd Finn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122168240#Comment_122168240

United national movement?

Permit me to jog your memory. First, there was the Irish Parliamentary Party, still a force in 1919 and that had been the third largest party in Westminster at the outbreak of the First World War. Then there was Sinn Fein which swept the election in 1919. They stuck together for about three years until the Treaty was proffered, then they started shooting the crap out of each other in the Civil War and beyond. More people killed in the Civil War than had been in the War of Independence. Then further splits into Fianna Fail, Republican Congress, down through the years to Official IRA, Provisional IRA, INLA, Real IRA, Continuity IRA etc etc.

All the while, south of the border there were political assassinations, reprisal killings, firing squads, hangings, internment……and that's without mentioning the Unionists. Or Labour.

Unified national movement…..my arse!!!

Hellrazer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122171161#Comment_122171161

Id have to agree - I spent time in Tel Aviv and Ashkelon and the treatment 24 years ago of the Palestinians was disgraceful even during times of so called peace - water and power shut off to Gaza, Palestinians treated like dirt by the Israelis.

Like yourself I condemn what Hamas did but its not like they werent pushed into a reaction and now its time for both sides to pull back and try and obtain a peaceful agreement - Hamas by returning the hostages in exchange for a lasting ceasefire and access to humanitarian aid.

The only possible solution for the future is a Two State solution and to have a two state solution the state of Palestine has to be recognised by the international community at its agreed borders set out in 1948. Its the Israelis that seemed to have a problem with these borders and constantly encroached on Palestinian territory.

I do feel that had Palestine been recognised as a state way back in 1948 then we wouldnt be here now and there could have been peace in the region.

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122171187#Comment_122171187

No, those things are not just the issue at hand, if there was a moratorium on settlement fine maybe you could say that but the last years have seen a big increase in settlement plus we have just a few days ago an Israeli minister says he wants to colonise the Gaza Strip and the current population should "be encouraged" to leave.

For years we have been told by the Americans and Israelis to wait and put off recognising Palestine and meanwhile they have just increased the rate of colonisation. You are just putting forward another excuse to delay, and soon enough there won't be anything left to recognise (which I'm sure is something the Israel gov is very cognisant of)

cheese sandwich

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122171195#Comment_122171195

Jesus, talk about missing the point. Why didn’t you include Brian Boru and Strongbow while you were at it?

zv2

New footage

https://twitter.com/clashreport/status/1793326938804621670

ujjjjjjjjj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122171207#Comment_122171207

Will right wing settlers in Israel look to take advantage of course they will. The chaos and confusion of this war will have all sorts of groups trying to take advantage but it does not detract from the core issue at hand which is Iranian aggression towards Israel to destabilize Israel and the region. Great diplomacy and problem solving is about recognizing the immediate danger and threat and the 'biggest problem' and focusing on solving that. It isn't always very obvious but it apparently clear to me and many others that the 'clear and present danger' here is Iran and their extremist regime. Today the Irish Government has done nothing but help the Iranian regime and it's clear Harris hasn't actually identified the clear and present danger here and is misguided.

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122171239#Comment_122171239

That doesn't sound like great diplomacy at all.. focusing on an immediate problem at the exclusion of all others just sounds like setting yourself up for more problems down the line. It's how the middle east got into this mess in the first place

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122171211#Comment_122171211

Fair game according to some on here as they are doing their mandatory military service and therefore not civilians. Sadly I'd say most are probably either dead or pregnant at this stage and unlikely to ever be released alive. Can't have people seeing what Hamas really are, it might put a dent in the propaganda campaign which is going swimmingly, although I doubt it would matter to some of the most fervent Israel haters

Galwayguy35

A very ill advised move while hostages are still being held in Gaza.

riffmongous

The Israeli Gov response to today's events.. More settlements and the non payment of monies owed to the PA. They've have actually moved to to a position of taking the West Bank hostage* "if you try to help them, we will destroy the place" but of course they are still just colonising away the entire time anyway. Morally bankrupt.

1. Immediate convening of the Planning Council in Yosh for the approval of ten thousand housing units in the settlement that are ripe for professional advancement, including in area E1.

2. A decision to be approved as early as tomorrow at the cabinet meeting on the establishment of a settlement vis-a-vis any country that unilaterally recognizes a Palestinian state. According to the publications, three countries intend to announce today the unilateral recognition of a Palestinian state. I would like to inform you that I have instructed the Settlement Directorate to prepare a decision-making text with three strategic settlements and I demand that such a decision be approved as soon as tomorrow.

(*No disrespect to the Israeli hostages intended, Hamas are evil and a strong and reformed PA is needed to have any chance of actually getting rid of them)

https://x.com/bezalelsm/status/1793197386501607713

Madd Finn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122171095#Comment_122171095

I am confusing nothing, thank you very much. If you remember the 1970s and 1980s (I do) support for Palestine was equated with being in the pay of "The Communists" because it was all a devious Soviet plot to undermine the West by stirring up Palestinians who were actually perfectly happy with their lot as refugees and would be quite happy to say they had no desire to return to their homeland if it wasn't for those dastardly Cold War warriors with their promises of socialist nirvana.

Then it was the awful Saddam Hussein, without whom there would be no Palestinian problem. Now it's Iran and the Shia, given that the other two adversaries have gone.

The problem of Israel Palestine is rooted in Israel and Palestine. Cynical Israelis and their gruesome American supporters like to fool the gullible into thinking that its ALL a matter of international power politics when it really isn't. When the world moves on, the Israel Palestine issue will still be there, a bit like Winston Churchill's "dreary grey steeples of Fermanagh and Tyrone"

Of course external powers take an interest. Take the very first occasion when the Israeli army invaded Gaza in force. That was in 1956, during what the Israelis call The 1956 Sinai Campaign, and which is known in these parts as the Suez Crisis. That occurred because two external powers (Britain and France) stirred up the Israelis (who were only too happy to be stirred up) to invade Sinai, including the Gaza strip. Each side had its own interest.

The British and French wanted to recover the Suez Canal which they used to own before Nasser of Egypt nationalised it that year. The Israelis wanted to "put a stop to Arab terrorism once and for all" (That's worked out well for them, hasn't it?) The Iranians weren't involved at all in that one.

By the way, the Israelis carried out a notorious massacre in Khan Younis on that occasion. One of the witnesses to that was a young boy called Abdel Assiz al Rantisi, who saw members of his family killed. 30 years later he founded Hamas. What sort of rough beast is being born in Gaza today who will some day in the future slouch towards Bethlehem, or Jerusalem or Tel Aviv in search of retribution?

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170329#Comment_122170329

Still none the wiser, not seeing the benefit/reason

Madd Finn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122171210#Comment_122171210

Missing the point? You said there was a "unified national movement" in Ireland in 1919. I said "Bollocks" Sorry if the elaboration and citation of facts confused you.

Toeuptony

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169816#Comment_122169816

They obviously have a right to retaliate, but as usual they are completely disproportionate with their retaliation. You are probably aware of this, but this article includes numbers of respective casualties year on year since 2008. As you can see, the Israeli casualties are dwarfed by the number of casualties on the Palestinian side, for both fatalities and injuries.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/12/israel-hamas-war-data-shows-human-cost-of-conflict-through-the-years.html

The vast number of casualties is the very thing that is maintaining any support for Hamas and many commentators are saying that the current episode will fuel Hamas recruits for decades, especially as many Palestinians don't see any other future for themselves, so they are willing to become martyrs for their cause.

An option that Israel has not tried for the past 75 years has been to show the Palestinians that they have a future, to live normal lives with self determination, as opposed to being trapped in a concentration camp. What's the definition of madness again?

Augme

What a Government.

Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich calls to punish Palestinian Authority by withholding transfer of tax funds, drawing reprimand from senior White House aide.

Condemnation for the European nations’ decision also came from far-right Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich, who called on Netanyahu to respond by imposing harsh punitive measures against the Palestinian Authority, including cutting off Ramallah financially.

Toeuptony

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170417#Comment_122170417

So Israel intends to isolate the diplomats of 146 countries and counting.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122171484#Comment_122171484

You say 146 but they aren't the countries where global power and responsibility truly lies. No serious western country recognises Palestine and ultimately the US holds the whip hand and all this is just nonsense unless they agree.

That's just the way it is.

kowloon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122171297#Comment_122171297

Has anybody in the thread written anything in support of Hamas or suggested they were anything but regressive Islamic extremists? If they have I want them outed for everyone to see.

Toeuptony

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122171525#Comment_122171525

The west is no longer the be all and end all of world power, and blind support of Israel is reducing the global influence of western countries by the day.

ujjjjjjjjj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122171376#Comment_122171376

You still are continuing to confuse two separate issues. Yes there of course is an intractable and ever running Palestinian / Israeli issue and honestly we could talk all night on this and like many before make little progress. Fundamentally you have two tribes who both want to live in the same place. It's really little more complicated than that but entirely intractable. Yes you then have outside influences who will take advantage of the situation to promote their own agenda.

But the problem today is not a Palestinian / Israeli problem, it is an Israeli / Iranian problem and to even begin to understand what to do next you have to accept and understand this. Hamas following it's move away from Saudi funding (due to US pressure on Saudi) is entirely in the pocket of Iran. (With funds coming from Syria and around the gulf as well but it's Iran who pulls the strings and provides the cash, resources and weapons).

I have no doubt the attacks of 7th October were at best 'encouraged' by Iran, at worst actually 'ordered and planned' by Iran and it has shattered any progress that had been made between Israel and Egypt and Saudi, isolating Israel and disrupting the entire Middle East with ripples beyond no doubt helping the Russians as splits occur in the west and it's clear how close Russia and Iran are. The Iranian regime benefits just like they have done by supporting the Houthis, another proxy war force.

Hamas yes may have risen from the ashes of Israeli and Palestinian tensions but even they are being used to a degree by Iran to 'get at' Israel. The Palestinians are being used by Iran as well.

Would love to think this will end soon for the sake of all but without regime change in Iran I can't see it.

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122171547#Comment_122171547

I didn't say anything about people on this thread supporting Hamas? But yes, there have been posts here in support of them over the months that this thread has been running, starting on the very first page while the Hamas attack was still ongoing.

Edit - sorry I see what you mean, I said some on here believe the girls are fair game and they do. I distinctly remember a post bemoaning the fact that these hostages were being described as "teenage girls" rather than IDF members which makes them acceptable prisoners of war and not hostages.

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122171583#Comment_122171583

Because China, Russia and Iran are such great places to be and are not exponentially worse by just about every metric

/s

kowloon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122171721#Comment_122171721

Anyone who has seen the aftermath of the October 7th attack who can still support Hamas is messed up. If there's going to be peace in the region there's no place for Hamas. Unfortunately, killing entire families in Gaza is the best recruiting tool they've ever had.

engineerws

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122171547#Comment_122171547

I'd see Hamas as the lesser of two evils, with Israel being the greater evil but do not support Hamas.

What astonishes me is that certain posters here support Israel. Israel are currently racing to exceed the atrocities committed by the Nazis in a per capita by basis. What the British did in the North is almost nothing compared to the scale of atrocities committed by the Israelis.

To me the posters supporting Israel are incomprehensible. How could you as an Irish person support a nation that has been torturing, robbing, raping, imprisoning and murdering the native population for 75 years?

I knew a Gazan very well and maybe that's the difference. I di not consider them human animals.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170336#Comment_122170336

Therefore it’s perfectly acceptable to kill 35000 Palestinians. Sure they are lesser people anyway, eh?

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170336#Comment_122170336

That does not mean Palalestinians don’t have a right to their own state. Vast majority of whom do not live in Hamas controlled areas. In reality the reason Hamas gained control of Gaza is because they were facilitated by Netanyahu to undermine the PA.