Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Sir_Name

A sniper killing children??

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122190819#Comment_122190819

Honestly whatever happened even to innocent u til proven guilty? Or is that only for people other than Palestinians in which it’s guilty until proven innocent? Honestly your bias is disgusting…

Frank Grimes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191060#Comment_122191060

No it is not, it's a strawman that you and others like you use in the mistaken belief that it makes you seem clever.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122190945#Comment_122190945

By the logic of this trope then how come theres no more IRA bombing campaigns?

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191075#Comment_122191075

Its regularly blabbered that theres been no elections and that thats is proof Gazan's don't support Hamas since they didnt elect them.

Never mind all the celebrations there was after October 7th of course that was completely unrelated.

Frank Grimes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191096#Comment_122191096

Again it's just you citing that as proof, people aren't denying that Hamas has support amongst Palestinians - it's just yet another one of your disingenuous claims.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191107#Comment_122191107

Ah I didn't realise the thread had finally accepted that Hamas is supported there. Thats a good breakthrough that took a few months to reach. It used to be denied in the extreme.

Frank Grimes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191116#Comment_122191116

Another strawman. Even for Boards this must be some sort of record, every single post you make is filled with them.

Sudden Valley

Perhaps there will be a breakthrough on the pro israeli side that they are supporting the killing of innocent civilians, even young kids, that has been condemned by as many international bodies as Russia and that they don't seem to any closer to getting rid of Hamas.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191128#Comment_122191128

One other notable thing about this horrific event is that the Israeli public are fully aware it happened, that the IDF were responsible and that the state has been condemned by the international community, including Macron. They can't claim any ignorance or that they weren't informed.

Wolf359f

I see we're back to the belief that Israel are not commiting genocide because of a population increase in Gaza. (Hard to imagine they are conducting a door to door census for the 2024 figure)

I wish people would educate themselves on what genocide actually is, same for antisemitism.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191158#Comment_122191158

Can you outline what you consider an acceptable, proportional response should look like?

What does that ideal ratio look like, too?

Frank Grimes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191171#Comment_122191171

Off the top of my head? Not deliberately targeting civilians, not bombing refugee camps, not bombing hospitals, not destroying all universities in the area, not deliberately targeting and destroying large numbers of schools in Gaza, not killing aid workers, not deliberately killing unprecedented numbers of journalists. That's just a start but I'm sure you'll be right back with excuses why all of this is perfectly fine.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191171#Comment_122191171

They could have started with Hamas leadership whom Netanyahu seemed to have the ear of for a long time. Cut the head off so to speak. But nope indiscriminately bomb Gaza.

And we have not even got to the west bank, plenty being killed there. Hamas are not operating there. No secret tunnels there either.

They precisely targeted 17 civilians in January with an airstrike and then pretended they were terrorists. These were civilians with permits to travel into Israel, civilians who had been checked thoroughly and vetted yet they were killed with an uncanny precision that they have never shown in Gaza. Now it's not at the level of Gaza, but the west bank is very densely populated too.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191189#Comment_122191189

Let's add not cutting off all water supplies, electricity supplies including destroying power producing facilities, blockading aid and stopping it from reaching people, starving 2 million people.

Let's not forget that gaza now has more people per head of population considered to be at the worst point of starvation (basically on the brink of death or forever live changing) than anywhere else in the world. This happened in less than 4 months.

This is siege tactics. This is medieval. This is a government who is out to punish every single person in Gaza

Frank Grimes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191224#Comment_122191224

I'm still waiting for a rehash of the 'perfectly normal, happens here all the time' arguments.

Furze99

Has Netanyahu lost his marbles altogether? He surely doesn't expect the civilised word to believe him. So why make some mealy mouthed sort of apology for blasting a refugee camp, when he knows everyone will despise & disbelieve him for it? Is he so out of touch that he doesn't realise how utterly foolish that is??

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191236#Comment_122191236

Like strip searches. That was a good one quickly debunked

ToweringPerformance

Wow that report on Sky News at 9 is hard to take.

Shame on all those who support Israel and their murderous leaders.

xhomelezz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191356#Comment_122191356

Well Hamas does their best to kill as many their own people as possible...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191420#Comment_122191420

In the end, Israel is targeting Gaza from a military perspective — yes — but if they wanted to commit genocide and eliminate the entire population, they could do that if they wanted. But they aren't.

We're not seeing a concerted campaign to eliminate the Gazan population. We're seeing a concerted military campaign which, like all military campaigns, incurs civilian loss — and that loss of civilian life is regrettable, as it is in all just wars.

To take just one example (of many possible examples); a blockade exists not to starve the Gazan population, but because before that blockade existed, Hamas was smuggling weapons into the territory. Israel had to respond because those weapons were being used to target Israeli cities and towns and civilians.

Look, Israel doesn't get everything right. No country could, given their circumstances. But Israel is held to a higher standard than any other country would in the same circumstances.

If Ireland experienced October 7 from an Islamist terror organization in the north of the country, would we really be shy about wanting to eliminate that organization — even if it meant some degree of civilian loss?

Strazdas

If Israel is merely trying to eliminate Hamas, why would they now be defying the ICC and ICJ and running the risk of Netanyahu being put on trial as a war criminal? Has anyone ever been falsely accused of war crimes by an international court?

Frank Grimes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191465#Comment_122191465

If your argument actually is 'if Israel wanted to engage in genocide they would just do it', that is predicated on the fact that you seemingly believe that Israel is capable of actually committing genocide. At any point does it not occur to you that maybe, just maybe, you're setting your stall out on the wrong side of history?

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191465#Comment_122191465

You're now just ignoring all evidence of the contrary which does not surprise me given it has twigged who you used to post as.

This is not a war. This is a mass slaughter.

You are then just inventing scenarios. Another tactic you used to do.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122190829#Comment_122190829

Unfortunately, we have been learning that it is perfectly possible to conduct war against innocent women and kids without accidentally hitting a fella that might plausibly look like he was in Hamas as a cover story too.

Spare a thought for the poor IDF. Spending all night loading up missiles and carefully selecting tents of people to blow to smithereens - "don't worry lads, surely we can pretend there was a tunnel nearby or something" only for them to find out there was no tunnel there post facto

threeball

Anyone watching C4 Dispatches - Kill zone. Absolutely disgraceful. All I can say is fcuk any isreali who supports this or any muppet in any part of the world who acts as an apologist for it.

They'll roll out the propagandists on Sky and CNN lying through their teeth but pictures of children blown to bits don't lie.

No better than the Nazis they use to explain away every atrocity they commit.

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191524#Comment_122191524

Twaddle.

The Chinese can do whatever they want because they have a seat and veto on the UNSC.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191536#Comment_122191536

Where are the weekly protests?

In China, it's genocide in action. Israel is targeted because of who they are, not because of what they do.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122190769#Comment_122190769

bit of a oxymoron, guilt is proven in courts.

No one has been to court from Palestine in relation to events between 7 oct and now

Francie Barrett

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122190318#Comment_122190318

I think the war has proceeded more difficultly than the Israeli's anticipated. I have to admit I thought that organised resistance would have ended by now and that we would be in a lower-level insurgency mode. But that doesn't really change anything. If it takes longer and is more costly then anticipated, Israel will have no choice but to end this on terms favourable to them.

If this war ends with Hamas remaining in power, that's a defeat for Israel. Not only that, but it would demonstrate Israel isn't as strong as what people thought. It would only be a matter of time until Hezbollah, Iran, the Houthi's, et al would try to attack again.

SpoonyMcSpoon

In all honesty, good riddance to any Israel business and if Israeli-sympathisers cannot see the nuance in Ireland’s position, crying out anti-semitism and threatening to pull money from the country; then off they go.

Big tech, pharma and finance all have Israeli dual-passport holders in senior positions but they will learn that threats to Ireland will likely cause the opposite reaction to that they are seeking when it comes to trying to turn public support to Goliath instead of David.

Absolutely delighted to see that horrid Dana Erlich out of the country.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/taoiseach-says-israeli-ambassadors-warning-about-tech-impact-for-ireland-is-a-distraction-as-prospect-of-eu-sanctions-discussed/a358514572.html

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191560#Comment_122191560

Israel are targeted because of what they do. "But what about…." doesn't cut it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191607#Comment_122191607

If this war ends with Hamas remaining in power, that's a defeat for Israel. Not only that, but it would demonstrate Israel isn't as strong as what people thought. It would only be a matter of time until Hezbollah, Iran, the Houthi's, et al would try to attack again.

That outcome cannot be allowed to exist, literally.

These Islamist extremist organizations are the absolute scum of the Earth. What I cannot fathom is how they are condemned when they commit atrocities in Paris and London and Manchester, but in Israel they are considered "freedom fighters".

How utterly embarrassing.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191524#Comment_122191524

I've not attempted to minimize or justify October 7th, I've given it some context and listed just some of the many, many acts of violence committed by the state of israel against ordinary palestinian civilians.

China has had economic sanctions against it for its crimes. Same as Myanmar. So stop and for all your complete and utter bullshit. They have had plenty of condemnation too. There are plenty of boycotts on goods that exist and guess what, there is rampant sinophobhia out there too.

Israel has not had one economic sanction. They have killed 10s of thousands of people and not one sanction. They have for decades illegally stole land and not one sanction. (Sanctions against settler recently)

You simply don't grasp what antisemitism is if this is your take. And you should be very careful about your take given some of the absolutely racist drivel you've posted in the past.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191516#Comment_122191516

I remember when pictures of Shani Louk weren't lying either.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191631#Comment_122191631

No, I'm absolutely certain that anti-Jewish racism is responsible for the hysteria with Israel as opposed to any other country in the world.

China and its disgusting policy of Muslim genocide; it's almost treated as a bureaucratic issue by the same people — but Israel, all emotions go 10 out of 10. Full blast and beyond. Hatred beyond hatred. They literally love hating, hating, hating Israel. They cannot stop it. It's an obsession.

It's obvious to anyone, objectively speaking at least, to know what the primary cause of the hysteria is.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191621#Comment_122191621

Again, most people absolutely condemn Hamas and October 7th, but let's give it some **** context. Attacks on France, UK etc by Islamist terrorists are somewhat different to attacks on a colonial oppressor and de facto occupying power, even if it is by a terror organisation. If you can't see how they are different (and this is not a defence of them, all should be abhorred) then that's a further display of your complete ignorance.

Good to see that you dresss things up as well in my opinion....but you have **** all facts to back anything up as ever.

threeball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191636#Comment_122191636

And who says that was right. Given your position the British should have pushed over the border in 1998 after the omagh bombing and tore us asunder as we were harbouring terrorists. They'd have been perfectly within their rights to drop a shell in your house, kill your kids and wife, then bomb hospitals in Letterkenny, drogheda, sligo, whilst cutting off our ports to prevent anything getting in or out. That's the position you think is reasonable. It's alright Jack, doesn't directly affect me. Anyone that can be that blasie about the death of innocent kids makes me sick.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191644#Comment_122191644

Nothing you post is objective. What you're doing here is engaging in subterfuge and trying to drag all of this way off topic, as is your style.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191465#Comment_122191465

some degree of civilian loss???

You are a very sick individual

over 35,000 dead , many more injured, many more missing, many more starving, many more displaced , and so on.

What’s different between an Islamist terror group and Protestant or Catholic one? Sounds like a bad case of Islamophobia.

Frank Grimes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191673#Comment_122191673

Israel is an enlightened Western Democracy in an ocean of authoritarian savages, they also have the most moral army in the world. Protests will surely sway a beacon of democracy such as Israel into taking a different course of action. And just before you chime in, **** China too.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191560#Comment_122191560

Perhaps the West should stop directly arming and supporting China with massive amounts of military aid? Why don't you start a thread on it?

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191607#Comment_122191607

Hamas will be stronger after this many many thousands of people will be seeking revenge.

At the start of the Easter rising very few people actually supported it.

threeball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191688#Comment_122191688

Same lad is out batting for Trump and the Russians. He's got the full house in loopy bingo.

Homelander

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191675#Comment_122191675

In fairness it's not a very good comparison as the IRA was not the Government of Ireland, was not linked with the Government of Ireland, no-one in the Government was "harbouring" the IRA, no-one in Government planned the Omagh bombing, and the actions of the IRA were not supported by the Irish public either.

Random hyperbole on either side of any argument doesn't really do the conversation any favors.

If anyone hasn’t watched it this evening, take a look at Kill Zone:Inside Gaza, it was broadcast tonight on Channel 4 Dispatchez, and will be available on Sky to watch. It is the most harrowing piece of TV I’ve seen in many years.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191719#Comment_122191719

Rubbish, lies.

Going for the man rather than the ball. My points stand on their own merit — not any deliberate misrepresentation.

It's largely anti-Semitism, full stop. That's the source of the fuel. Everything else is just excuses. If it weren't for Israel responding to Hamas' latest atrocity, they would find some other convenient reason to hate Israelis.

Hellrazer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191088#Comment_122191088

The brits didnt indiscriminately bomb the **** out of Dublin or any other major city and create refugees in the millions.

Had they done so we would probably have a country full of IRA terrorists.

threeball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191724#Comment_122191724

It doesn't matter whether they're the government or not. Putin is the government in Russia, does he represent all Russians. Should they all pay for his war crimes when that war ends. Should all isrealis answer for Netanyahu being a scumbag?

Does every Palestinian child who never voted in their life deserve to run the gauntlet every day due to a decision of a small number of people to carry out a vile act. Did 10,000 of them deserve to pay with their lives because a Nazi has decided that this war must continue so he can cling to power.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191746#Comment_122191746

When we criticise any Government and their army, anywhere else in the world, is it claimed that it is on the grounds of their religion? No.
This constant accusation of antisemitism when the Israeli government is criticised, is a shield used to deflect attention from, and accountability for atrocities they have carried out. They are not being criticised because they are Jewish, they are being criticised because they are killing innocent people.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191746#Comment_122191746

Antisemitism is a word that no longer has a meaning. People use it as an excuse to commit genocide.

People are anti actions of the Israeli governments and Army.

People should not blindly support the Israeli government because of their religion

Remember when people blindly followed the Catholic Church and thought they could do no harm