Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Ten of Swords

@2smiggy threadbanned

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122293190#Comment_122293190

Great use of selective quoting there! Did the next line of the article "The individual was eventually transferred to the Red Crescent for treatment…" not sit well with you?

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122295388#Comment_122295388

That's all well and good, but why double down on the duhumanising of him in the first place?

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122295388#Comment_122295388

So they didn't use him as a literal human shield….?

Markus Antonius

Baffling how an Irish person could support Zionists..

Then again, Irish people also fought for the British. Some things never change.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122295388#Comment_122295388

'' Eventually '' ?? After passing several ambulances and taunting the Palestinians.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122293382#Comment_122293382

See, there's never been an insurgency where the fighters weren't amoungst the population. That's the problem with asymmetric warfare. It doesn't matter if it's the IRA in the 20's, the Warsaw uprising against the nazis or Gaza, you will always find rebels in amoungst the population.

That's why i find the constant narrative of "Human Shields" from the israelis so annoying. According to them, every single group they've fought for the last 20 years has been using human shields. In gaza it's small groups of urban guerrillas and for some reason they're expected to all go and stand in a field together so they can be targeted by israel.

Have Hamas fighters ever actually stood behind a civilian and used them as an actual human shield. Because there's been plenty of footage of IDF walking along streets with Palestinian civilians at gun point and using them as human shields.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122295388#Comment_122295388

does “eventually” make the human shielding incident go away?

sock.rocker*

Pretty funny to think about all the claims of "Hamas propaganda" when Israel is so completely and utterly engaged in it in the US and Europe.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/24/israel-fund-us-university-protest-gaza-antisemitism

"One struggles to find a parallel in terms of a foreign country’s influence over American political debate"

Eli Clifton of the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft

It's a remarkable article some here would never be capable of bringing themselves to read, like a closed envelope housing potentially devastating medical results, because it lays out exactly how they became so radicalised and extreme in less than a year. Since they're too cowardly to ever click through and realise they were the victims of Israel's disinformation campaign, I've summarised it below with ChatGPT.

• Targeting US College Campuses:
  • Israeli government relaunches a controversial program, now called Voices of Israel, to influence US college campuses.
  • Programs include advocacy efforts and funding through non-profits that do not disclose donor information.

• Redefining Antisemitism in US Law:
  • Campaign to redefine antisemitism to include certain criticisms of Israel, using the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance’s definition.
  • Israeli-funded groups influencing US state legislation to include this definition in hate crime laws.
  • Congressional efforts to encode this definition into Department of Education standards.

• Covert Operations and PR Campaigns:
  • Use of a public relations firm to secretly pressure American lawmakers with pro-Israel content through fake social media accounts.
  • Partnerships with US advocacy groups to shape public and political discourse, including influencing congressional hearings and investigations.

• Influencing Political Debates and Policies:
  • Coordination with American advocacy groups like the Institute for the Study of Global Antisemitism and Policy (ISGAP) to influence congressional investigations and hearings.
  • ISGAP's involvement in shaping discourse around antisemitism and protests against Israel’s human rights record.

• Partnerships with US Organizations:
  • Collaboration with groups like Hillel International and the National Black Empowerment Council to bolster support for Israel.
  • Pro-Israel groups acting as “trusted partners” to social media platforms to suppress certain content critical of Israel.

• Financial and Strategic Support:
  • Significant funding from Israeli government sources to American advocacy groups and initiatives, with the Israeli ministry of diaspora affairs allocating substantial budgets for these efforts.
  • Support for non-governmental organizations to lead campaigns related to US policy and campus discourse, with financial backing and strategic guidance from the Israeli government.

• Legislation and Policy Influence:
  • Direct involvement in drafting and promoting state and federal legislation related to antisemitism and criticism of Israel.
  • Efforts to pass “anti-BDS” laws that penalize Americans for boycotting or protesting against Israel.

• Influence on University Policies:
  • Strategic partnerships leading to administrative actions against pro-Palestinian student groups, influencing campus policies and suspensions.

• Use of Dark Money and Covert Funding:
  • Utilizing dark money partners and non-disclosed funding sources to support pro-Israel advocacy efforts.
  • Coordination with multiple pro-Israel groups globally to ensure unified efforts in shaping public opinion and policy.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122297426#Comment_122297426

Ultimately whoever wins the election in November they will have a strong supporter in the White House too so Israel wont have to push out much propaganda to get what they want for the next few years.

sock.rocker*

In January, Vaknin-Gill and Small testified before a Knesset committee debating the proper response to critics of Israel. During the testimony, several witnesses discussed the need to encourage countries to adopt the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance’s definition of antisemitism, which equates harsh criticism of Israel and anti-Zionism – including claims that the state of Israel is a “racist endeavor” – with antisemitism.

Many critics on both the left and right have taken issue with the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) definition, which they say stifles the first amendment by curtailing the ability to criticize a government entity and wields concerns around antisemitism as a cudgel to penalize critics of Israeli policy.

But the participants in the hearing made clear that the IHRA definition should be a strategic priority for the state of Israel.

They don't give a toss about antisemitism itself. They just want it expanded so that they can't be criticised.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122297353#Comment_122297353

It certainly does not. Human shielding could never ever be acceptable individually or collectively, whether a few hiding behind one human shield or militants hiding among and below many, be they unknown to them or , horrendously, their own families. Do you think the selective quoting was unintentional and not meant to give the impression that the wounded man disappeared to who knows where and to what fate when the quoted story went on immediately to state that he was brought to medical help?

Spudmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122295965#Comment_122295965

Rather than it being pro-Zionism, I believe its more just anti-Arab/Muslim sentiment. We've had decades of this shoved down our collective Western throats. Its a mindset that no matter how hard you may have tried to resist it'll eventually creep in. This segways nicely into Israel then being the shining light of first defense against the hordes of marauders who'd otherwise be making their ways here to set up a Caliphate in Borrisokane or wherever.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122297656#Comment_122297656

entirely unclear what impression you’re trying to give. However the impression you are giving is not a good one.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122297454#Comment_122297454

interestingly the bill drafts I’ve seen where politicians have been trying to throw red meat to Zionists about adopting the IHRA definition specifically call out that “nothing in this bill etc” defines antisemitism as criticizing Israel or limiting the first amendment so on and so forth. Those bills are basically PR stunts. It’s a wonder the vast majority of them have died at introduction and their sponsors have done little if anything to push for them after getting their likes and upvotes on social media. Like the federal bill Tim Scott introduced is just languishing without any further thought. At worst South Carolina passed its own version but upon reading it you can see it does little more than wave a miniature Israeli flag, and does not construe antisemitism as criticism of Israel similar to what other countries would receive (eg. For engaging in genocide, ethnic cleansing, using human shields, etc) nor does it abridge the first amendment:

https://www.scstatehouse.gov/sess125_2023-2024/bills/4042.htm

ToweringPerformance

The hold Zionists have over the present US administration is incredible. Biden keeps going to bat for the genocidal Israeli regime again and again deeper into the US arms industry well when needed. Genocide Joe truly is the most despicable president in living memory.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122298503#Comment_122298503

I answered your question. If you don't want to answer mine, that's your choice.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122297964#Comment_122297964

Conflating Islam and Islamist? Do better.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122298654#Comment_122298654

did you ask a question? Looked like a loaded attempt to try and make some point. Which you are free to state.

Overheal

Biden reduces weapons shipment to Israel:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/netanyahu-doubles-claim-biden-admin-reducing-weapons-shipments-israel.amp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122298896#Comment_122298896

Yes, I asked a question. It's the sentence that starts with "Do you think" and ends with a question mark.

Sudden Valley

Interesting conumdrum for Biden. Will he have to again send Blinken out to say Bibi is still lying and make the case strongly again that america is still sending all those weapons to kill tens of thousands of people in Gaza.

nacho libre

The Israeli finance minister has restated that it's his life mission to make the West Bank part of Israel first by facts on the ground then through legislation. Also Bibi has said its important to vote for him to thwart a Palestinian state coming into being. He also refuses to agree to a a long term ceasefire, yet we were told by Blinken it was only Hamas holding the whole thing up.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122298906#Comment_122298906

Y eah, so **** what. Biden is still complicit. Took him close to 40,00p deaths to do anything of note. Slow **** clap.

And you'll take Netanyahus word here because it suits? But I bet you wouldn't believe most of the stuff he says ordinarily. And fox News.

Don't bother replying with your nonsense whataboutery on him. He missed the chance to make any real difference.

The white house itself stated only 4 weeks ago it's preparing for 1bn in weapons for Israel.

Meanwhile, as noted the other day. Far right Minister saying the quiet bits out loud and talking about the formal annexation of the west bank

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/24/israeli-far-right-minister-bezalel-smotrich-annex-west-bank

tayto lover

Israel intends to take over all of Gaza and the West Bank. It is quite obvious.

Quandary

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122299211#Comment_122299211

This has always been the goal. Sure they've been slowly annexing the West Bank for decades. Now they see an opportunity to do it all in one fell swoop. It's not like anyone will stop them.

Hungry Burger

Any knowledgeable Military heads in here to objectively explain how this offensive is going for Israel? I haven’t kept up with the ins and outs of how the campaign is going. Are they close to wiping out Gaza?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122299196#Comment_122299196

And where is that arms shipment now, that was “planned” 4 weeks ago? Israel claims arms shipments have been slowed for 4 months

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-says-he-only-complained-about-us-arms-delay-after-months-of-quiet-efforts/amp/

But something something genocide Joe right

Frank Grimes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122299472#Comment_122299472

They are committing ethnic cleansing and possibly genocide if that's what you are asking.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122299542#Comment_122299542

I've never resorted to childish names. I did not that twice he other day you claimed I said things I didn't say. I can't take any of your commentary remotely seriously.

.

I just find it odd that you're now taking Netanyahu at his word that it supports your weird obsession for anything remotely and rightly critical of Joe Biden,.

You're still ignoring that his government increased arms exports for months and months. As did Germany. France, UK, Netherlands and a few others all drastically cut them due to concerns over how they would be used.

It took an awful long death and destruction for ol Joe to basically give a slap on the wrist.

Why dismiss Whitehouse notifications that arms have been sent. That doesn't suit.

As I said previously. We might find out in 20-25 years when stuff gets declassified that biden is in fact the greatest negotiator for peace ever, but I don't think history is going to be kind to him. He has tried and failed to play both sides and utterly failed to show strongeadership and decision making.

You don't say you have a red line and then shrug when it's crossed. You don't say you'll stop sending weapons and then send 1bn in weapons. You absolutely don't get to criticize the icc the way he did, the sort of thing you'd expect from some of the scummiest of world leaders.

But again we risk this going off topic so you leave with your head in the sand.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122299612#Comment_122299612

excuse me but they said “planned” in your previous post, and reporting from 4 weeks ago, not “sent” are you saying it was delivered now? Where is the evidence of that?

Did they actually send 1bn in weapons or are you just assuming they have followed through on that?

Overheal

In April it was "$18Bn" being "considered"

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/2/biden-considers-18bn-arms-transfer-to-israel-including-f-15-jets-report

4 Weeks ago it was "$1Bn" being "planned"

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/5/15/us-plans-to-send-1bn-in-new-military-aid-to-israel-reports

But Pentagon also confirmed a "pause" on shipments prior to that

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/5/8/pentagon-chief-confirms-us-pause-on-weapons-shipment-to-israel

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/5/9/what-did-biden-say-about-us-arms-transfers-to-israel-and-what-does-it-mean

And no reporting between then and now to indicate those arms have been delivered in any capacity.

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel/diplomacy-defense/artc-u-s-ambassador-acknowledges-israel-s-frustration-over-weapon-deliveries

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122299626#Comment_122299626

Why are you suddenly taking Netanyahu at his word? You've spent the last few months trying to do otherwise as much as possible. Because it supports your political ouook. That's all.

Biden has been bad. Trump would also have been bad, but he's not currently sitting president.

Weepsie

Rhey are still sending weapons. The pause is on specific weapons. Dress it up whatever way you want, but bidens government are still arming the idf

Francie Barrett

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122299472#Comment_122299472

Israel are winning the war.

The IDF secured control of the entire Philadelphi Corridor a few weeks ago and they have likely already collapsed the underground supply tunnels between Gaza and Egypt. If Hamas are not already totally cut off, they will be very soon. Without medical supplies, weapons, ammunition, the situation is very desperate for them.

I don't know when the war ends, but we're definitely much closer to the end than the beginning now. When the Russians encircled the Ukrainians at Mariupol, that heroic siege lasted 3 months. No one knows what quantity of materiel is left in the underground tunnels or what shape the remaining Hamas fighters are in, but sooner Hamas will run out of the capability to fight.

Spudmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122298805#Comment_122298805

Ain't no conflation here dude. I'm not really sure what your comment here is supposed to mean, a follower of Islam and a follower of Islam who's an extremist? If this is it, then do better.

In any case if you want to talk about fundamentalist extremists in different theologies, I've no problem listing a few who are not followers of Islam.

Also in in terms of conflating, are you not taking the position that all Gazans are deserving of their plight cause of Hamas, i.e conflating all Gazans with Hamas? Also conflating Hamas as those that use human shields, whilst defending the IDF for using human shields?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122299994#Comment_122299994

I didn’t say I was taking him at his word, just sharing what’s being reported. You haven’t provided evidence that contradicts his claims, notably.

Whose word are you citing to make your evidence free claim those arms have been “sent” as you said in your previous evidence free post? 😶

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122299998#Comment_122299998

proof? You seem to be dressing it up how you want that’s for certain. I love how you love to pretend to give me permission to do things or tell me I have to stop doing this or that.

Theyre sending them at most, iron dome munition (based on Biden’s posturing) and precision guided weapons (based on his ambassadors posturing) and at minimum no weapons at all (based on Bibi’s posturing). All of them seem to overlap in agreement the US has stopped sending them F-16s and the 2,000 lb bombs and such weapons that have been used to maximize casualties up to now. What are they “arming the IDF” with, Weepsie? Defensive weapons or genocidal ones?

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122300072#Comment_122300072

Cmon Overheal you know months ago it was decided Israel isn't allowed defend itself from Hamas.

Theres no such thing as defensive weapons now just child killing ones.

combat14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122300017#Comment_122300017

closer to hezbollah being dealt with next ...

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122300101#Comment_122300101

IDK where the smarmy sarcasm comes from because nobody ever said Israel had no right to defend itself. However it was often said that Genocide, Ethnic Cleansing, murdering doctors and foreign aid workers, holding land sales in New York for land they have no legal claim on (sales which by the way, they further illegally only entertain for Jewish buyers), raping their prisoners, etc etc etc does not constitute “self defense.” Bombing 40,000 civilians: not self defense; using Iron Dome against rockets: self defense. I hope that clears things slightly up.

ZeroThreat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122299420#Comment_122299420

Guess who'll be strongarmed by the 'great powers' to take a significant chunk of expelled palestinians….

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122300156#Comment_122300156

I see TP you also provide no evidence to demonstrate arms have flowed to Israel following the news that weapons shipments have been suspended. Feel free to provide it from whatever news source or mouth piece you find credible. I for one cannot find a report that confirms such deliveries have been made. The 2,000 lb bombs have dried up. At most, the US ambassador has alleged precision guided weapons have been sent, but he didn't say when, or how much, and it's not as though Ambassadors are any more truthsayers than Prime Ministers. We have all this reporting from various sources, politicians etc. that says it's been suspended however. And a whole lot of nothing to say it's been sent or delivered or received.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122300067#Comment_122300067

Two posters in one day claiming not to understand straightforward posts! Sheer coincidence no doubt! Thanks for attributing to me opinions you assume I hold and offering to switch subjects.

You blithely claim that "pro-Zionism" is not so much "pro-Zionism" as "anti-Arab/Muslim sentiment". The vast majority of Muslims on this planet are not Islamists or extremist or complete headers hell bent on plunging anyone under their power back into the 7th Century. Making a distinction between the two is, perhaps, something for you to consider.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122300114#Comment_122300114

Theres never been space for that kinda nuance for months. "Genocide Joe" and the evil Israeli's want all Palestinian children dead.

The concept of Hamas being terrorists and Israel needing to defend themselves has long been retconned away.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122300321#Comment_122300321

and, for months, Israel has been engaged in war crimes, not mere defense, and the U.S. has been suspending arms shipments. Huh.

sock.rocker*

If China were arming Russia for decades, and then armed and supported them during the Ukraine war, and threatened to sanction the ICC for even talking about its war crimes.. I somehow doubt Overheal that you would think Xi Jinping was the good guy in all of it for slowing down arms shipments for a while.

You are as ever completely and utterly blinded by your politics which is understandable being an American who despises Trump. But you really need to consider what this looks like from an outsider's perspective. There is absolutely no way you would think Xi Jinping was a good guy for slowing down arms shipments to Russia after arming them and facilitating war crimes a month earlier.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122300380#Comment_122300380

You're just trying to both sides now. The "Israeli = evil" camp does not and barely ever recognised Israel's right to defend itself. Israel only kills children now.

gym_imposter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122297964#Comment_122297964

It's possible to believe that Israel is behind much of the demonization of Muslims in media etc while also unhappy about our immigration policy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122300546#Comment_122300546

By the most unlikely of chances might you be saying Israelis when you really mean Jews? Easily and frequently done.