Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

gym_imposter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122300710#Comment_122300710

On an individual level, I treat people as I find them regardless of their religious affiliation and have met and enjoyed the company of people of all the major world religions

It was and is however a policy of the state of Israel to portray Muslims in an extremely negative light

sock.rocker*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122300710#Comment_122300710

Did you read the Guardian post I linked above? About influencing the US and Europe. It was quite long, wasn't it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122300775#Comment_122300775

Source?

gym_imposter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122300981#Comment_122300981

Oh please

sock.rocker*

Literally from the article I just asked him if he read:

Haaretz and the New York Times recently revealed that Chikli’s ministry had tapped a public relations firm to secretly pressure American lawmakers. The firm used hundreds of fake accounts posting pro-Israel or anti-Muslim content on X (formerly Twitter), Facebook and Instagram.

…

At the Palm Beach event in April, Small argued that “intersectionality is actually a concept that we can use” to “fight a billion Muslims and all liberal people in the western world”, a concept he called “tai chi”. Small suggested one line of argumentation, that political Islam “wants to kill Jews, it wants to subjugate women, it wants to kill all gay people”.

That's just one random article from yesterday. It's kind of wild to ask for a source for Israel wanting to portray Muslims in a negative light. Maybe he thought they tied that Muslim to the front of a truck to give him a nice tan.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122301015#Comment_122301015

Ok then, please can you supply a source (or sources) for your statements that

"It's possible to believe that Israel is behind much of the demonization of Muslims in media..."

and

"It was and is however a policy of the state of Israel to portray Muslims in an extremely negative light."

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122300383#Comment_122300383

counterfactual. I’m not the topic. And if any of us could read Chinese or Russian, we have a lot more information to go off of regarding the media in both countries - with regard to the English-speaking world: I still don’t have any credible evidence that those weapons have been sent to Israel following the announcement of a suspension … do you?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122300530#Comment_122300530

you’re entitled to be incorrect , and to your diatribe about your perceived enemies

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122300981#Comment_122300981

did you read the post right above yours and the post that it is directing one to read?

sock.rocker*

He must have me blocked.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122301630#Comment_122301630

I asked you to substantiate your claims. You are free not to, of course.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122301710#Comment_122301710

you asked me no such thing

Are you mixing up users?

If people could substantiate their claims that there is no arms suspended from Israel or that they’ve been “sent” that would also be dandy.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122301747#Comment_122301747

I did indeed mix up users. Apologies!

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122301596#Comment_122301596

You don't have credible evidence that stuff has not been sent either though, given that it was a an on specific weapons and not all arms

By April 2024, the USA has exports 4.5 times the amount of weapons to Israel as it has in the same period last year.

So a pause on specific weapons after the horse had already bolted, and after they'd send enough to arm them 5 times over kind of makes a mocker of the idea that bidens government is doing anything to disarm Israel and the IDF.

Group 09 is specifically weapons with a military use and includes incendiary devices.

This is on the record. Not a fluff opinion piece, not a moan by Netanyahu. Biden could have said back in December that we need to limit the exports, but he didn't. And yes I know it's a lot more complicated than that, but he has contradicted himself so many times at this stage.

I guess we wait a few weeks for this to be updated

https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/product/atp/atpg09.html

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122300530#Comment_122300530

17,000 children murdered or missing would back-up the claim that Israel is more than defending itself. Obviously not all Israelis even agree with what's happening but the Government and the murderous IDF are delighted with it. There are even a few Israeli supporters in here who have never condemned the murders of Gazan children or thoser shot to death in the West Bank. A few cheerleaders.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122301331#Comment_122301331

Here's a little reading for you -

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/16/the-language-being-used-to-describe-palestinians-is-genocidal

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122302407#Comment_122302407

Hilarious thanks for the mental gymnastics but I don’t need to prove a negative lol 😂

You (yes you) claimed the weapons were already “sent” what is your evidence? This guesswork? What a farce.

scottser

So are all the pro-Isreal posters on here hoping for a Trump win in November? It's looking more like Netenbastard is doing his level best to derail Bidens chance of re-election.

Sudden Valley

So is bidens ceasefire deal totally off the table now? It doesn't seem like anyone is anywhere near agreement. Perhaps this will continue for another few months like Bibi wants.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122304091#Comment_122304091

that was reportedly the case Sunday, Bibi came out Monday and said the opposite

https://www.salon.com/2024/06/24/netanyahu-backtracks-says-hes-remains-commmitted-to-us-endorsed-ceasefire-deal-in-gaza/

🤷🏻‍♂️

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122303417#Comment_122303417

It is reported that weapons are still being sent, just not the ones specifically banned. You are trying to claim that they are not. The pause is on very specific arms. Not all arms. You ask for proof but don't like it when it is put to you? I gave you details of how the us has increased it's exports in arms

Just like you have used reports . You've used the words of a known liar and man with 40000 dead on his hands.

You speak of mental gymnastics because you're the expert in it given you can somehow separate the very problematic hand the us has in all of this , and in general for making the middle east a complete and utter **** show, dating as far back as UNSCOP, ane that inckudes the incumbent president who is doing a bad job as regards Israel.

Well report back next week when mays exports are updated.

Also maybe do us a favor and read what you post. The reports you link are of drops in shipments, dramatic they may be, but not that shipments of arms have stopped. They have not, and never have. So yes, weapons are being sent routinely and will continue to be. There's nothing to prove there.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122304433#Comment_122304433

reportedly still sent by whom? Who reported that? You and the rabbit under your hat? Jesus? I have found no reports since the suspension announcement confirming anything has been sent. If you’re hiding it do let us know. Maybe do us a favor and support your evidence free claims. How many 2,000 lb bombs have the US sent since 4 weeks ago then? What munitions have been sent

you’ve made this claim they have been sent without evidence. You haven’t proven the man you claim is lying is actually lying. Funny.

tayto lover

https://www.timesofisrael.com/despite-bidens-pause-billions-of-dollars-in-us-arms-for-israel-still-in-pipeline/

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122304502#Comment_122304502

https://www.timesofisrael.com/despite-bidens-pause-billions-of-dollars-in-us-arms-for-israel-still-in-pipeline/

That's according to a GOP Senator (speaking of "known liars" - Risch in particular still pretends insurrectionists didn't destroy his office and endorsed Trump for president this cycle) and even as he puts it, still being slow walked and the arms in question,

joint direct attack munitions (JDAMS), which convert dumb bombs into precision weapons; and tank rounds, mortars and armored tactical vehicles

…have been held up since, wait for it: december. Risch notes for the media that Israel under normal circumstances gets fast-tracked for approval in a matter of weeks - yet, for months, these shipments have been delayed.

Huh. Imagine that. It's almost as if the US is actually delaying shipments to Israel. "Inconceivable!"

And still, no more current reporting indicating this cache of weapons has indeed made it out of the "pipeline" TM. And the F-16s mentioned in the article, still not approved. And 2,000 and 500 lb bombs, no deliveries in sight.

Ten of Swords

@ToweringPerformance threadbanned

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122304480#Comment_122304480

It's in some that you yourself linked ffs. Now you're being specific. 2000lb bombs were paused. Not all weapons.

So are you no going by certain arms are not being shipped or no arms are being shipped in an attempt to move goalposts.

sock.rocker*

https://old.reddit.com/r/iamatotalpieceofshit/comments/1dojrwf/i_am_personally_proud_of_the_ruins_of_gaza_and/

Incredibly strong Hitler vibes from Israel's Minister for Social Equality and Minister for Women's Empowerment.

She posts it on her Twitter with some of it quoted.

https://x.com/GolanMay/status/1759675501424042329

"I am personally proud of the ruins of Gaza, and that every baby, even 80 years from now, will tell their grandchildren what the Jews did when they murdered their families, raped them and kidnapped their citizens!"

I assume in the last part, she is referring to Hamas, and not the IDF's murder, rape, and kidnappings.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122305390#Comment_122305390

sourcing:

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/israeli-minister-says-proud-of-gaza-destruction/3144918

A few months old but absolutely horrendous. And an acknowledgement of the existence of Israeli “dungeons” (most moral democracy TM) and her screed very much in terms of ethnic war (“Jews” etc)

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122305658#Comment_122305658

No we did not. You're tying yourself up in disingenuous replies here and trying to change what it is you've said. Weapons are still being sent. Netanyahu says as much himself In your links. Just not as many as he wants and not the specifically paused ones.

Prove that they're only sending iron dome missiles. Go on?

He waited until **** May to do anything. He let the us export nearly 5 times the amount of weapons it normally does.

He did nothing while 27000 people were killed by Christmas.

Sanctioning us citizens who are settlers. Big slow clap. Real bold move there

That is not mitigating the carnage. Words and gestures. Like those who condemn gun violence but will shoot you if you try to take their gun away

You are completely and utterly deluded if you can't accept the Biden and his administration deserves criticism. Just as the UK, France, Germany etc does.

What we don't know, because it's not included in the export reports to and they don't have to tell Congress is how many of the massive amount of stockpiled weapons the US has in Israel have also been given over to the IDF.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122306041#Comment_122306041

”He waited until **** May” you say, but we have evidence above that the pipeline PM has been delayed since December. ???

Your claim that he did ‘nothing by Christmas’ is clearly unsubstantiated

Keep your personal attacks out of your post, please. I think you know better? You’re talking to me like I postmarked the bombs personally, previously calling me “complicit.” I prefer we keep it civil. It and every one of your posts has been personally hostile for the last few days, starting at least with an out of line demand I “really need to stop” supporting Biden in an upcoming election against Trump Heights himself, father in law to Jared beach front property Kushner

Sir_Name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122300184#Comment_122300184

I'm not saying you're wrong however all I am finding is articles of Netayahu posturing that US has stopped supplying munitions, and responses from the US stating they havent.

'Netanyahu claimed on Tuesday that the Biden administration was “withholding weapons” in a video posted to X, claiming that Secretary of State Antony Blinken “assured me that the administration is working day and night to remove these bottlenecks.”

In response, US envoy Amos Hochstein told Netanyahu that his comments were “unproductive” and “more importantly, completely untrue.”

Its entirely possible they've cease dumb bombs, but I dont believe, as it looks like things are esclating with Hezbollah that shipments have ceased entirely. Both sides are bad actors, and I frankly wouldnt believe a word out of Bibi's mouth.

You state theres no evidence shipments are flowing, theres also no evidence they're not.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122302673#Comment_122302673

Some more footage of Israel defending itself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reF-iLVWWhs

Brussels Sprout

A perfect example of why so many American politicians fear criticising Israel happened last night.

Jamal Bowman defeated one of the biggest pro-Israel Democrats (Eliot Engels) in a primary in 2020 and has spoken candidly about Israel and their actions ever since.

AIPAC went after him big time in this primary this cycle, pumping so much money ($15m) into the campaign that it broke the record for a House primary election. They were ultimately successful. He will now be replaced by another Israel can do no wrong Democrat.

That will put the frighteners on every other politician on Capital Hill when it comes to standing up for Palestinians.

AIPAC combined with the ludicrous Citizens United supreme court ruling gives Israel free reign to do this kind of action. One of the many ways that American democracy is deeply flawed (See also: partisan redistricting, voter suppression, the overwhelming use of first past the post).

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122306065#Comment_122306065

What evidence do we have? Are you ignoring the census bureau data that shows 4-5 times the normal amount of weapons were exported to israel by the USA from January-April 2024. I think you are.

I've never said he has not delayed deliveries, paused deliveries or withheld specific weapons, but there are still deliveries were still regular exports up until the end of april 2024.

Give us some detail for once instead of endless link dumps with no context and something to actually back up your claims that Biden has done anything remotely significant or impactful to reign in Netanyahu and Israel. Sanctioned settlers, a few soundbites and the May pause on delivery of very specific but not all weapons. You need to learn to comprehend that it is specific weapons and stop trying to move the goalposts,

In some of your link dumps, there are things to contradict some of your claims too

BIDEN absolutly deserves criticism. That you can't accept that is a reflection on you and nobody else. And I'm not blaming him for all of this, I'm not saying he has sole responsibility to prevent it. But he has been wholly ineffective and poor as he is trying to save his own political skin.

So what if it means he wins in November. If he can't be stronger on Israel and still beat Trump, he's an even worse president than I'd have given him credit for. He's the best of a very poor pair.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122306336#Comment_122306336

Indeed, but this is also one of the situations where there should be proof positive, and there’s no positive proof, and a lot of posturing and bluster (from republicans, Likud, etc) that things are being slowed down or delayed or not showing up - some claims indicating as long as December this has been going on for.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122306695#Comment_122306695

And, not once did I say he didn’t deserve any criticism or that his administration didn’t deserve any - you’d find my first post in this thread concerned a fiery rant against Blinken and his “ten 9/11s” commentary which, predictably, preluded greater than 10 fallujahs worth of reaction from Israel.

Let’s be precise with criticism though, previous users debasing the discussion to over the top nicknames for Biden without being checked on it by anyone else is not due criticism, and has only the effect of campaigning for his rival - someone who was and will, demonstrably, be worse for the Palestinians that Biden ever has been.

What’s in my linkdumps TM are again also hearsay, you are quick to call out taking Biden at his word but again as I stated, ambassadors aren’t truth sayers either. And I provided context for the links I put up, it’s not accurate to claim I didn’t.

Deserving criticism is a two way street with deserving credit when it is equally due. We seem to overlap in that there has definitely been a suspension of arms flow since at least April if not earlier.

If he wins in November AIPAC will have considerably less leverage and Biden will have considerably more leverage over Israel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122306627#Comment_122306627

And, this is precisely the political problem that is or will target Biden over the next few months. In March Politico reported AIPAC “uncorks” $100M to unseat unfavorable politicians, not just Bowman. There will be more where that came from. Politico also reported a few weeks ago that AIPAC has now become the single largest GOP donor org into Democratic primaries. “Nearly half of AIPAC donors to Democratic candidates this year have a history of giving to Republican campaigns or committees.”

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/03/aipac-israel-spending-democratic-primaries-00144552#:~:text=AIPAC%20uncorks%20%24100%20million%20war,more%20of%20them%20this%20time.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/06/09/aipac-republican-donors-democratic-primaries-00162404

Sudden Valley

There seems to be more talk now about an offensive against Hezbollah then there is on the ceasefire deal.

I think biden announced a very under cooked ceasefire deal, nearly over a month ago now, and it seems to be dying a slow death.

I can't see anything changing with Bibi so I think the only hope is that Biden is put under pressure the closer it gets to the Democratic National Convention.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122306839#Comment_122306839

And how many more thousands will be dead in November. There were opportunities not necessarily to stop this, but to make meaningful action and make it as hard as possible for Israel to cause the destruction and death they have and it wasn't done.

You keep getting very childish at any criticism of Biden with meme trump replies and it's not just those with childish nicknames. It's those who are looking at the complete and utter lack of action of any meaningful kind to in anyway put a stop on Israel leveling Gaza. That's the problem. He absolutely deserves every bit of criticism coming his way. He has been poor at handling this from his end.

What is in your linkdunps you are posting repeat as they are fact. This is the first time you've bothered rowing back on it. So you don't get to demand proof when you are as guilty of offering questionable evidence and little to no data and when you are hand selecting parts of journalism pieces to suit your line.

Either look at it all honestly or don't bother.

There are very recent updates re arms etc., this evening. Look 'em up. Don't want to post a link as some won't trust it and anyway, it will be denied by one side or the other very soon.

Maybe move on from the issue anyway as few know the reality. And rain is coming tomorrow over much of Ireland but maybe not over the Bog of Allen. A chance this evening for an extra walk for the dog.

Sudden Valley

Ah I see that now. Biden still sending arms. Misunderstanding on netanyahus part.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122307961#Comment_122307961

This is a poor copout for burden of proof.

Nothing has changed today from what has already been discussed here, other than more flapping of gums. "significant progress" TM, "worked through misunderstandings" TM "real progress" TM according to "a senior administration official" TM but no approved deliveries, or sales, or received shipments, or any official statement with a WH name attached to it, or from State.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/concluding-meetings-gallant-hails-significant-progress-in-resolving-us-arms-holdup/

https://abcnews.go.com/International/live-updates/israel-hamas-war-gaza-US/?id=111357096

The only thing that changed today is Biden approved an arms shipment (ghasp!) worth $360M (GHASP!) For Taiwan (oh.) as officiated by State Department:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/us-approves-new-300-million-arms-sale-taiwan-111238091

Please, don't make excuses for not having proof for claims made.

Weepsie

In the above link the language suggests weapons are still being sent

And in the aljazeera link it's a bit more specific on what is not being sent.ao maybe let's put to bed the notion that America is not sending weapons once and for all just because it's not sending some very specific ones

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/6/26/gallants-us-trip-strengthens-potential-challenge-to-israels-netanyahu

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122308701#Comment_122308701

It shouldn't really come to a shock to anyone that out of the two men Bibi is lying. He is trying to make Biden look bad with pro Israel voters to help his mate Trump.

There is no way in hell that Biden, an ardent Israel supporter for decades is going to be in secret slowing down arms to them. It is not in his character and wouldn't make sense for someone whose primary objective is to get re-elected. Biden hasn't suddenly grown a conscience.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122308849#Comment_122308849

I'm not disputing that supply has slowed down, I'm disputing that weapons are not sent at all. Some weapons are not being sent anymore, or for the time being, chiefly 2000 and 500lb dumb bombs, but others are

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122308855#Comment_122308855

If Bidens team is going line by line on arms shipments with the Israelsi I think that diminishes the idea that Bibi was being accurate at all. Will be interesting to see what public statements are made by both parties next.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/26/politics/us-arms-shipments-israel/index.html

Weepsie

This is the important part of the article. Which is basically what I had been saying. Specific weapons are not being shipped as of May. The rest is as normal. So the us are still arming Israel. We'll have a but more info when export data is updated for May, and that will be nd of next wweek or early the week after. But once again, it's putting to bed one posters continued claims that they have not been sending weapons/arming Israel

The US has paused one shipment of weapons to Israel, which includes 500-pound and 2000-pound bombs over concerns to the potential for civilian casualties if such weapons were used in densely populated areas in Gaza.

“We paused that one shipment,” Pentagon press secretary Maj. Gen. Pat Ryder said at a press briefing on Monday. “Everything else continues to flow on schedule as normal. It is not diminished.”

tayto lover

After the Iraq debacle with the Weapons of mass Destruction I find it impossible to believe anything the US states. It is easy to say that you're not supplying weapons while doing it covertly anyway.

Weepsie

Well generally Congress has to be notified. There is an exception for things such as the massive stockpile of weapons already in Israel and maintained since he 1960s.

Lyndon B. Johnson said he wouldn't or maybe shouldn't export weapons and did it anyway so it's not like it would be a new thing to do the thing you know is a bad idea

sock.rocker*

US officials went line-by-line through arms shipments to Israel with defense minister to rebut Netanyahu’s delay claim

“We paused that one shipment,” Pentagon press secretary Maj. Gen. Pat Ryder said at a press briefing on Monday. Everything else continues to flow on schedule as normal. It is not diminished.”

A certain poster here could have the most enlightening moment of his adult life if he could stand back and realise that for the last few days, he's been engaging in the exact head-in-the-sand and denial of reality behaviour he believes only Trump supporters engage in.

The next step is telling himself that of course these weapons shipments were happening, but it's the US government, and Congress, and the Pentagon, and Trump, and everyone else that make them happen, and it has nothing to do with Biden whatsoever.

sock.rocker*

“We have fought in the Israeli courts for years against this as most of the village is under threat of demolition and they have done this before,” said Eid Suleiman, a resident. “But they came this time without telling our lawyer. We didn’t have time to collect our belongings.

“We have put up some tents to keep the children cool in the heat. But we are afraid the soldiers will come back and take those too because they say we are building illegally.”

Masafer Yatta, a collection of shepherding hamlets including Umm al-Kheir, is located in area C, the sparsely populated 60% of the West Bank under full Israeli control. Palestinian infrastructure in the area is frequently demolished on the grounds that the residents do not have building permits, which are nearly impossible to obtain, while surrounding illegal Israeli settlements flourish. UN experts have said such demolitions can be considered war crimes.

Just another day in the West Bank. Lives ruined by colonialist theft of land. All supported by the West.

Odhinn

More on the above -

" Through cooperation and collaboration among the military, police,
settlers and the Jordan Valley Regional Council, Israel has reduced
grazing areas available to Palestinians, blocked regular water supply
and took measures to isolate the Jordan Valley from the rest of the West
Bank.

This policy is nothing new. Israel has been undermining these communities’ subsistence
for decades, in part, by denying Palestinians’ access to nearly 80% of
the Jordan Valley declared as firing zones, nature reserves or the
municipal area of settlements."

https://www.btselem.org/video/202403_israel_has_ramped_up_efforts_to_displace_shepherding_communities_in_the_northern_jordan_valley_since_7_october#full