Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122316515#Comment_122316515

The only Democracy in the Middle East.

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122317118#Comment_122317118

'a beacon of freedom', 'the light of freedom' etc. You occasionally wonder what it is that some people are on.

Francie Barrett

https://www.ynetnews.com/article/sy9gogh8a

Interesting article that sheds light on how Hamas has been able to sustain their war effort despite what looks like a complete blockade.

If Israel can secure the territory beneath the Philadelphi Corridor that's already under their control, they will be able to do a lot of harm to Hamas.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122319535#Comment_122319535

Yet instead they just bomb the **** out of hospitals, refugee camps and civilians. If they really really wanted to root out and destroy them then they should have been looking at the supply line and the leaders in Qatar, but no they just decided to butcher ordinary Palestinians because they get away witg it

Odhinn

"Two more Palestinian men, injured during
a military operation in the occupied West Bank last week, have told the
BBC that Israeli soldiers forced them on to the bonnet of an army jeep
and drove them – sometimes at speed – along village roads.

Their accounts came days after footage of 23-year-old Mujahid Abadi Balas clinging to the bonnet of what appears to be the same Israeli army jeep sparked international outrage."

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cw4y91032d1o

It should be pointed out that using human shields was standard official practice until a number of years ago, until outlawed by the Israeli supreme court. Old habits seem hard to shake.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122323358#Comment_122323358

No doubt the posters condemning Hamas for using human shields will be on here very soon to condemn the IDF for using human shields also.

pjordan

https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0701/1457502-middle-east-gaza-israel/

This latest update from Gaza begs a couple of questions

1. For all the destruction caused in Gaza and in the face of the supposed might and intelligence of the IDF and the amount of boots on the ground and drones in the air, how are Islamic militants still able to accumulate the hardware and resources to fire off a sustained barrage of rockets like this 9 months into this conflict when most civilians in Gaza are at the pin of their collar trying to find food or sufficient fuel to cook it?
2. What purpose do these Islamic fanatics (or Hamas for that matter) serve to the ordinary long suffering citizens of Gaza with this farcical "show of strength" or defiance. Again for those wondering where their next meal is going to come from (I doubt something that concerns many militants or Hamas fighters) this is hardly a morale booster?

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122326036#Comment_122326036

There are 3 entities involved, Hamas, the IDF and the innocents. The innocents fear the other two and obviously keep their mouths shut in order to try to survive.

Fuascailteoir

Protest in Israel against a scheme to transfer seriously ill Gazans for treatment abroad. What kind of ghouls are these

Weepsie

And also the largest single landgrab for over 30 years by Israel

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-news-07-03-2024-033deab379a16efdf9989de8d6eaf0f8

nacho libre

I see Lord Cameron and his Government has taken a case challenging the remit of the ICC to seek arrest warrants for Bibi and Gallant

Francie Barrett

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0vewvp14zdo

One senior Hamas government employee told the BBC that the Hamas attacks were “a crazy, uncalculated leap”.

He asked that we concealed his identity.

“I know from my work with the Hamas government that it prepared well for the attack militarily, but it neglected the home front,” he said.

“They did not build any safe shelters for people, they did not reserve enough food, fuel and medical supplies. If my family and I survive this war, I will leave Gaza, the first chance I get.”

Netanyahu was right.

There can never be peace or a ceasefire with Hamas if they are willing to treat their own people this badly.

pjordan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122338236#Comment_122338236

Yep, amid all the totally justified criticism of Netanyahu and the IDF, the role and contribution of Hamas to the fate and suffering of Gaza civilians really has been lost. I'm surprised that it's taken 10 months into the conflict for such disillusionment and negative criticism to become voiced (Although considering how ruthless Hamas have proven themselves to be, I suppose the fate for any potential dissenters is also pretty obvious).

It really is breathtaking as I mentioned further up the thread, how Hamas and other Islamic militants can still seemingly find the resources to continue a military offensive and maintain underground bunkers/havens and supply chains (and no doubt adequate food and medical supplies) for their combatants and leadership, whilst the general populace of Gaza are exposed to shellfire and attack in the open air and being left to slowly starve to death.

Quandary

Hamas are a barbaric organisation with little regard for the suffering of their own people, no doubt about it.

Lets be honest though, Israel don't really care about Hamas. In fact, this whole mantra of completely defeating Hamas is very convenient for Israel, because they know Hamas will always exist in some shape or form in Palestine. This means they can continue to obliterate every square inch of palestinian territory under the guise of rooting out Hamas. The real goal for Israel is to use this momentum to indirectly and sometimes directly target, murder and persecute palestinians in the hope that they will leave their homes for good and then Israel can permanently occupy their land. The amount of land grabbing happening right now is frightening.

The longer this war goes on, the better it is for the Israeli hard right ultras. Palestine will eventually, whether in our life times or not, be nothing but a memory.

Netanyahu and his crowd can do whatever they want at this stage, and they know it.

pjordan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122338735#Comment_122338735

Yep I'd agree with a lot of that. Defeating Hamas has just become a convenient excuse for a lot in Israel and I expect there are a lot of developers and real estate types within Israel and among the Jewish community worldwide (Jared Kushner!) studying the devastation in Gaza and only seeing potential for condos and profit once the land is conveniently cleared of the current nuisance that occupy it! In fact I'd say there's a range of plans and preferential deals already drawn up for such eventuality.

There is a considerable irony in the fact that, a bit like cockroaches in a nuclear war, the ones most likely to survive the ongoing onslaught are the Hamas fighters, leadership and the extremists. The hope for Israel is that the longer it goes on the more likely that more and more ordinary Gazan's will decide to give up and move elsewhere, just as soon as the opportunity arises (and it is in the vested interest of surrounding Muslim countries to ensure that that doesn't happen!)

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122338236#Comment_122338236

Of course what you wont acknowledge is that Bibi was perfectly content to shore up Hamas until it backfired on him. Bibi clearly doesn't want peace either. What unites Bibi and Hamas is their shared goal of survival at all costs regardless of what of the cost is to others. As an apologist for Israel, you will ignore there is a pair of them in it. In the same way you will be receptive to condemning Hamas for using human shields, but not a word from you when the IDF is caught doing it.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122326036#Comment_122326036

The rockets probably aren't edible or suitable for liquefying for fuel for cooking etc.

It was 20 rockets. Hardly evidence of recent accumulation of anything. Far more likely just a local cache that was dormant in storage for months or years.

Francie Barrett

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122339952#Comment_122339952

All irrelevant.

Hamas are acknowledged by all as the head of state of Gaza. They are the ones who launched their war of aggression against Israel. To this very moment they remain totally defiant.

This war could end tomorrow if Hamas wanted it to. The ball is in their court.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122340696#Comment_122340696

Well no. Netanyahu stated many times that it would not stop based on just eliminating Hamas (which is in and of itself not achievable anyway)

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122340696#Comment_122340696

It's very relevant, you dismiss it as irrelevant as you want to avoid criticising Nethanyu and Israel. If you were capable of being even handed you would acknowledge Nethanyu had stated many times the war will continue beyond any ceasefire. He knows when the war ends he is likely out on ear. It suits him perfectly fine to try to achieve a goal he probably knows is unattainable. He does not want peace and a moderate goverment in Gaza. He is on record as saying as much and his actions prior to October 7th make that clear.

sock.rocker*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122340696#Comment_122340696

Absolute nonsense. Israel was bombing Palestine the week before October 7th. I have absolutely zero respect for people who think this started with Hamas's attack.

Spudmonkey

Loads of footage coming out of Gaza this morning.

Including one of a babies head recovered from rubble and put into a bag and a girl who's had her jaw blown off.

But Hamas I suppose….

Gerry T

A lot of what you say about Hamas is correct but your unwavering support for the IDF/Israel is hard to understand. I don't think you have once criticised their actions. Do you honestly think if Hamas weren't there that Israel wouldn't still be taking Palestinian land and bombing Palestine homes, they've being doing that for decades.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122339952#Comment_122339952

Bibi is obviously just playing games and has no intention to seek peace. He proposes things that he knows Hamas won't and probably can't agree to and that then gives him carte blanch to continue his attacks on the innocent Palestinians. Bibi doesn't want peace because he known that when the war ends so does his tenure as PM and then his past will catch up with him as the court cases begin.

sock.rocker*

I think Netenyahu knew he just needed to wait for the US election to take eyes off of Gaza, the same way Gaza took eyes off of Ukraine.

On the entire Guardian's international homepage page, there is just one news story title about it, no pictures. Palestinians are completely fuked. Gaza in ruins and Israel busy enacting a massive land grab in the West Bank.

kowloon

This thread is practically dead at this stage. Palestine/Israel just isn't hot enough anymore. Some of the focus has returned to Ukraine but a lot of it has gone on to UK, French and US elections it seems.

Odhinn

And on and on it goes………………

"At least 16 people were killed in an Israeli strike on a school
sheltering displaced Palestinian families in central Gaza, the
Palestinian health ministry said, in an attack Israel said had targeted
militants."

"In its daily update of people killed in the nearly nine-month-old
war, the Gaza health ministry said Israeli military strikes across the
enclave killed at least 29 Palestinians in the past 24 hours and wounded
100 others.

Among those killed in separate air strikes were five
local journalists, raising the toll of journalists killed since 7
October to 158, according to the Hamas-led Gaza government media office."

https://www.rte.ie/news/middle-east/2024/0706/1458580-israel-hamas-talks/

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122349730#Comment_122349730

Indeed and as usual it was followed by the excuse ' there were armed Hamas ' there. It is just wanton murder all along and the IDF are probably worse than Hamas at this stage.

engineerws

So, looks like more news coming out.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-07-07/ty-article-magazine/.premium/idf-ordered-hannibal-directive-on-october-7-to-prevent-hamas-taking-soldiers-captive/00000190-89a2-d776-a3b1-fdbe45520000

No 40 babies beheaded. No evidence presented of rape. Now

Haaretz does not know whether or how many civilians and soldiers were hit due to these procedures, but the cumulative data indicates that many of the kidnapped people were at risk, exposed to Israeli gunfire, even if they were not the target.

Have to give credit to Haaretz and the other Israeli's who pursued and published the truth.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122352072#Comment_122352072

They are a cowardly army the IDF.

nacho libre

Haaretz are obviously Hamas supporters and anti semitic as well. Gideon Levy, who works for this paper, is a great man. No doubt he is considered a traitor by the likes of the finance minister and his ilk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122352072#Comment_122352072

I notice Secretary Blinken has been quiet lately, perhaps he is busy preparing sanctions against the said finance minister for his comments and recent actions regarding the West Bank.

tayto lover

Putin now targeting Children's hospitals in Ukraine. He and Netanyahu are so similar. Suffer the little children.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122356762#Comment_122356762

I reckon the Russians just noticed the strong support from many in the West (and on here) for the IDF bombing kids hospitals in Gaza.

Sure all the Russians need to do is say there were tunnels or enemy fighters somewhere nearby and let the defenders of its actions spring into motion

Brussels Sprout

Sheer evil. There's no other word for this sort of thing

https://twitter.com/swilkinsonbc/status/1810774334769860915

Weepsie

Hypocrisy is how quick Russia are rightly condemned yet deafening silence on Israels bombing of hospitals and schools.

More women and children dead today

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jul/10/israel-gaza-war-latest-today-khan-younis-strike-abassan-death-toll

About 3 pages of comments have disappeared here too in my browser

Timberrrrrrrr

...

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122357838#Comment_122357838

I think it may be the other way around. The war in Ukraine and Russian impunity could be having a corrosive effect on "norms" imo. It's pretty disturbing and worrying.

Netanyahu definitely admires Putin. He is massively arrogant, probably believes if the Russians can do all these war crimes day in day out, and get away with it scot free, why not us too as a "great nation" backed up by the US, esp. after suffering the Oct. 7th attack?

Spudmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122352072#Comment_122352072

Don't give the credit to Haaretz for this one. This was found to be the case over 3 months ago by Al Jazeera. But because they are Qatari funded they'd probably be regarded as unreliable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0atzea-mPY

All of this was known however as soon as Israel announced their list of the dead.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/14-kids-under-10-25-people-over-80-up-to-date-breakdown-of-oct-7-victims-we-know-about/

No 40 beheaded babies, no babies found in ovens. Even though this was parroted by Biden, Blinken, Murray and a whole host of Knesset members who apparently saw videos detailing as such. Yet not a solitary one have come out and redacted their statements. It's not like the US would make up false information regarding atrocities committed against kids to gain public support for an unjustifiable war.

Ahem… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony

Ironically a lot of the atrocities that were pinned on Hamas as having happened, and which have subsequently been proven to be false have now been committed by Israel and yet there is zero mainstream condemnation of it. Russia bombs a hospital in Ukraine and Starmer, Trudeau etc are on Twitter immediately condemning it. A school filled with kids in Gaza is bombed the same day and there's **** crickets. They are either racist, bought or both. Easy to condemn something when your "morals" align with your interests.

This is going to shake Israeli society massively that its being reported internally. They can't and won't defeat Hamas. They haven't a hope of defeating Hezbollah. And their own security forces can not only not protect them, but are actually willing to kill them rather than see them taken hostage.

Oh and cause it hasn't been posted here yet. The Lancet estimates the death toll in Gaza could be as high as 186,000 people due to the sum total of the effects cause by Israel's genocide.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3/fulltext

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122361179#Comment_122361179

That is just horribly inhuman. The only Democracy in the Middle East. Shame on anyone who can back that or not condemn it.

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122362410#Comment_122362410

Democracies tend to cause some of the worst war crimes.

Israel have always been evil, democracy doesn't change that .

Weepsie

So I won't bother quoting the person who can't take any levelheaded criticism of Joe Biden, but here is the US's updated exports table for 2024 to include may.

They exported weapons with a great $ value than they did in April, this in spite of the pause on 500 and 2000lb bombs.

So I think we can definitively put to the bed the absolute nonsense claim that Joe Biden halted the export of weapons to Israel and he continues to be complicit along with his government in aiding the slaughter of normal palestinians

https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/product/atp/atpg09.html

And today they announced the intention to resume sending 500lb dumb bombs and implied that they were only paused because they were already packed and ready to be shipped with the 2000lb bombs so it was merely a logistical decision there and not really because they give a **** about the ongoing butchery by the IDf

tayto lover

Is the Peace Process dead in the water again? Seeing nothing new in the News lately.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122362136#Comment_122362136

Not sure on your point. The US, UK, etc. spoke out against Russia, condemned them and helped the people at risk defend themselves. Whereas when it came to Gaza, they armed the ones doing the killing and shielded them against official criticism and action.

nacho libre

Nethanyu has expressed admiration for Putin in the past. The US government recently praised the Israeli IDF for killing less civilians in Rafah than they have in other parts of Gaza. They also are putting pressure on Starmer to continue the case started by the Tories against the ICC.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122368949#Comment_122368949

It seems to have fallen by the wayside. Biden announced it the end of May. He didn't have anyone fully on board andnow doesn't seems motivated to get both parties to accept even a ceasefire. Biden seems to have alot of problems now so probably trying to keep Gaza out of the news.

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122369005#Comment_122369005

Yes, I suppose Russia didn't get away with it entirely (scot) free, so that was wrong. My point wasn't to deny hypocrisy, esp. in the American behaviour. Russia does have some supporters + allies too of course, willing to excuse what they do or help them; just not the US/Western countries that are allies of Israel.

My point was just that Russia's invasion (and their war crimes, and justifications etc.) happened first, and I don't think Netanyahu ever saw much wrong with it at all, given Israeli govt.'s distinct lack of support for Ukraine/condemnation of Russia.

As said, he may feel Israel is a "great power" too, possessing rights to behave similarly to Russia in pursuit of its interests and goals when needs must. Unlike Putin, I suppose he will still have to get enough of the rest of the people to go along with him!

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122369245#Comment_122369245

I'm thinking that its all a game and only words uttered to pretend that they are doing something to get peace when in reality they have given the green light to Bibi.

Odhinn

Slow drip mass murder

"Around 60 bodies were found under the rubble of a Gaza city
neighbourhood, officials in the Hamas-run territory have said, after
Israel's military declared an end to its operation there."

https://www.rte.ie/news/middle-east/2024/0712/1459482-gaza-israel-war/

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122371078#Comment_122371078

It is mass murder of innocents including medical personnel -

Ms Touma said that, over four days, four schools were hit.

"All of them have been used as shelters for displaced families.

"As a result, many people sheltering in those schools, more than 500 in fact, have been killed.

"These are people who have come to seek protection under the United Nations flag," she said.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122369245#Comment_122369245

Starmer you would hope given he is from the legal profession would tell the US to go **** themselves, but he's an incredibly odd one. He has represented Irish prisoners against the crown who were tested reprehensibly by prison staff but has also excused some abhorrent behaviour by police