Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Weepsie

"Saturday’s massacre constitutes the crossing of all red lines by Hezbollah. This is not an army fighting another army, rather it is a terrorist organisation deliberately shooting at civilians,” from an Israeli Miniater.

While not defending the attack whatsoever, The irony is completely lost on them

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122435491#Comment_122435491

If it wasn't them then who was it? Sounds like something Hamas would do but is it too far away from the Gaza strip?

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122435568#Comment_122435568

The timing certainly suited Bibi.

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122435637#Comment_122435637

Did you ever notice how every time there's a big international announcement or event regarding Israel they seem to miraculously find a few hostages or bodies a few hours later? I hope that a few years from now someone actually investigates just how much info the IDF has regarding where the hostages are and when they are rescued.

Regardless, I read that Hezbollah did claim they fired rockets at a target only 3kms away from where the people were killed, it's almost a certainty they are responsible for firing the rocket.

engineerws

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122434934#Comment_122434934

If Israel says then it must be true. Oh no wait, I think they've lied about almost everything.

The below absolutely sickens me. An attack by Hezbollah (no source given is headline) and a far worse attack on a school in Gaza is a sub headline and only claimed by Gaza officials.

Gaza officials have consistently told the truth while at least in my eyes Israel has zero credibility and will lie about anything to get more weapons and money from the USA.

Why the f is RTE reporting in such a manner?

Francie Barrett

https://twitter.com/michaelh992/status/1817299314638475382

Some of the responses here are sick. Just about every Western country (US, EU, UK, etc) recognises Hezbollah as a terrorist organisation. Of course they blew up these kids.

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122435719#Comment_122435719

What are you on about? Just looking to be angry about something?

Afair most recent bombing of Gaza was top of their news page yesterday until that rocket attack on Israel. There is a lot of bad things happening in the world right now unfortunately.

tbh I find the laser focus on the ME a bit excessive at times.

You have to dig deeper into RTÉ website now (no top level Ukraine tab etc.) to get their reporting on the giant war going on at the border of the EU, which has far more effect on us here.

edit: other issue is difficulty for journalists of confirming what is going on in Gaza, which has to be reflected in reporting.

It is under constant attack from Israeli airforce and ground troops, very dangerous, very difficult to even get into or out of for any journalist not embedded with IDF or something. By accounts any governing authoritity has mostly broken down for good now. Afair Israel also regularly cuts off communications (internet, phone etc.) with the outside world.

SonicSuper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122435568#Comment_122435568

Who gains from this in the wider picture. Who want's an excuse to do to Lebanon what they've done to Gaza?

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122435741#Comment_122435741

It is abhorrent but where the **** is your condemnation of the39000 deaths at the hands of Israeli bombs?

You pop in here every now and then with a bit of whataboutery as if all of this happens in a vacuum and is entirely one sided when historically and currently nore people have been killed, injured, maimed, displaced, made refugees by israel than by Hezbollah, hamas, plo ans any number of other aggresove actora conbined.

When does the penny drop that Israel is a terrorist state, a colonial oppressor and should be treated with the it last contempt for how they on an official level, dehumanised millions upon milliona of people

It's only a week since the idf killed Syrian refugee children in lebanon. Did you have the same concerns then?

It's not long since the idf fired rockets at a house killing an entire family of Lebanese civilians with 0 affiliation to any organisation. Idf said they'd investigate of course.

We now have the Israeli government meddling in the affairs of the US judicial system as Pegasus software developers shrug their shoulders and don't give over any of the wholly incriminating documents because the Israeli government is blocking them

Israel is a rogue state. A bad actor on the international stage that should be treated with the same contempt as Russia, Iran and any others you wish to mention.

engineerws

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122435741#Comment_122435741

On the same day the terrorist state of Israel murdered 30 people in school and injured 100 more.

October 7

40 babies beheaded --> lies

Mass rape -→ no evidence

Civilians all killed by Hamas --> large numbers of deaths now attributed to IDf after Hannibal directive

Israel have blown up schools, universities, hospitals, almost everything in Gaza. Where to start, a policy of starving children.

You expect me to believe anything the Israeli state says?

Why not show pictures of the thousands and thousands and thousands of children Israel murdered?

I keep reminding myself of the nice Israeli people I met but Israel is a magnitude of order worse than Hezbollah. In my eyes they are the worst terrorist organisation active in the world. They can bomb Damascus and nobody even notices and on and on and on.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122435741#Comment_122435741

Commentary that is oblivious to appalling double standards is sick also Francie

engineerws

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122435763#Comment_122435763

Then the same should be said e.g. claimed by the psycho killer state of Israel that double taps toddlers when sniping.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/07/19/gaza-hospitals-surgeons-00167697

But it doesn't happen like that. At least the times has balance but RTE has gone to the dogs and just been awarded 750 million by us for their Pravda reporting. I'm really angry with RTE reporting and that of the BBC and it's not just me, e.g.

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/bbc-reporters-criticize-broadcaster-over-its-pro-israel-bias-coverage-of-palestine/3063212#:~:text=In%20the%20letter%2C%20the%20reporters,in%20the%20Israel%2DPalestine%20issue.

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122435885#Comment_122435885

I pay the licence fee and I don't ever want an RTÉ that reports world events as "claimed by psycho killer state of xxx" thanks.

Are you saying the attack on Israel did not happen, it was a bunch of "crisis actors"? What is your point? I assume it is easy enough for them to confirm there was an attack, and a number of people died (vs Gaza, for reasons I mentioned).

BTW we are not in the UK, and how the BBC reports on Israel-Palestine and the ME has very little to do with RTÉ, the ones that you criticised (and I believe made an incorrect claim about) in the original rant.

Also it is ironic that you would use an article selected from the state news agency of a kind of "managed democracy" with a wannabe dictator figure in charge (Turkey) to try and prove a claim about the BBC.

Ranting about "Pravda" operations in RTÉ when you seem to just want the reporting there to stroke your prejudices and reflect them right back at you is funny too.

edit: for sake of interest here is their current article on it.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0727/1462176-golan-heights-rocket-attack/

The "lede" seems to describe the events in a neutral and accurate fashion.

A rocket attack on a football ground in the Israeli-occupied Golan Heights has killed 12 people, including children, Israeli authorities said, with Israel accusing Hezbollah of the strike but the Lebanese group denying any role.

Hezbollah denied any responsibility for the strike, the deadliest in Israel or Israeli-occupied territory since the start of the war in Gaza.

engineerws

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122435965#Comment_122435965

Just saw this and think J Cook gives the context far better than I.

https://x.com/Jonathan_K_Cook/status/1817365320656429265

BCC coverage of the attack on a football pitch in the Golan Heights has been intentionally misleading.

The BBC's evening news entirely ignored the fact that those killed by the blast are 12 Syrians, not Israeli citizens, and that for decades the Syrian population in the Golan has been forced to live unwillingly under an Israeli military occupation.

I suppose mention of this context might complicate the story Israel and the BBC wish to tell – and risk reminding viewers that Israel is a belligerent state occupying not just Palestinian territory but Syrian territory too (not to mention nearby Lebanese territory).

It might suggest to audiences that these various permanent Israeli occupations have been contributing not only to large-scale human rights abuses but to regional tensions as well. That Israel's acts of aggression against its neighbours might be the cause of "conflict", rather than, as Israel and the BBC would have us believe, some kind of normal, pre-emptive form of self-defence.

The BBC, of course, chose to uncritically air comments from a military spokesman for Israel, who blamed Hizbullah for the blast in the Golan.

Daniel Hagari tried to milk the incident for maximum propaganda value, arguing: "This attack shows the true face of Hizbullah, a terrorist organisation that targets and murders children playing soccer."

Except, as the BBC forgot to note, in 2014 Israel infamously targeted and murdered four young children from the Bakr family playing football on a beach in Gaza.

And much more recently, video footage showed Israel striking yet more children playing football at a school in Gaza that was serving as a shelter for families whose homes were destroyed by earlier Israeli bombs.

Doubtless other strikes in Gaza over the past 10 months, so many of them targeting school-shelters, have killed Palestinian children playing football – especially as it's one of the very few ways they can take their mind off the horror all around.

So, should we – and the BBC – not conclude that all these attacks on children playing football make the Israeli military even more of a terrorist organisation than Hizbullah?

The BBC next went to Jerusalem to hear from diplomatic editor Paul Adams. He intoned gravely:

"This is precisely what we have been worrying about for the past 10 months – that something of this magnitude would occur on the northern border, that would turn what has been a simmering conflict for all of these months into an all-out war."

So there you have it. Paul Adams and the BBC concede they haven't been worrying for the past 10 months about the genocide unfolding under their noses in Gaza, or its consequences. A genocide of Palestinians, apparently, is not something of significant "magnitude".

Only now, when Israel can exploit the deaths of Syrians forced to live under its military rule as a pretext to expand its "war", are we supposed to sit up and take notice. Or so the BBC tells us.

Hope the above answers your questions. I suggest reading a history book on Israel.

engineerws

Fwiw, there's more here.

https://jacobin.com/2024/05/bbc-gaza-reporting-bias

Good write up here too.

https://www.medialens.org/2024/aligned-with-israels-propaganda-strategy-bbc-correspondent-challenges-the-bbc-director-general/

The Irish Times on a good day might report something like that but forget about RTE.

Francie Barrett

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122435851#Comment_122435851

You're just spouting a load of old waffle!

There's only one terrorist state in this war, it's Hamas, the organization that is designated as such by every Western country in the world.

Netanyahu made his war aims very clear from day one of this fight. Israel must dismantle Hamas and remove it from control of Gaza. Hamas were the aggressor in this war, Hamas are the ones who continue to fight, Hamas are the ones that use women and children as human shields, Hamas are the ones responsible for the rape and murder of Israeli's.

Until this despotic regime is removed from power, Israel can never have security.

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122436269#Comment_122436269

Seems like you are forgetting who is also up on genocide and war crime charges there Francie, surprise, surprise.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122436269#Comment_122436269

Sounds like you still have your head in the sand. I've already gone into some fairly lengthy detail on this thread about a fraction of the atrocities attributed to the state of Israel

That'll be the Netanyahu who helped fund Hamas for years. The war criminal Netanyahu

Carry on being deliberately ignorant though. You have nothing if substance to say while you carry on spouting compete and utter nonsense.

nacho libre

I wonder are you describing it as waffle, Francie, because you can't actually refute his specific points. You keeping repeating the same lies. Nethanyu and his ilk have no interest in long term security for Israel because that would involve making a peace agreement with the Palestinians. Bibi has said it himself.

As has been pointed out to you many times- which you run away from addressing- Bibi funded Hamas to weaken the PA. Why was that, Francie, if he was interested in peace and coming to a settlement? Bibi, as reported by the Times of Israel, boasted about funding Hamas to stall any hopes of a two state solution. Yet you still have the audacity to claim Israel just wants to live in peaceful co existence. This mistruth is also easily debunked when we see the ongoing situation in the West Bank. We know what the ICJ had to say about that but you will of course ignore that as well. Israel is very much a terrorist state and the ICJ ruling on the illegal occupation reflects that. You are not really against political violence, rather it depends who the actors involved are, as evidenced by your silence when Israel has killed children playing football. Where were the pictures from you of the Palestinan children killed?

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122436234#Comment_122436234

Thanks for the helpful suggestion to go and educate myself.

Your replies have very little connection to the issue I thought we were talking about but 🤷‍♀️

They and the links say nothing about RTÉ at all, let alone give evidence of a "Pravda" -like pro-Israeli govt. bias in its reporting about Israel-Palestine.

You just claimed it was so, based on nothing, as far as I can see.

engineerws

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122437588#Comment_122437588

RTE as far as I can tell is identical to BBC in outlook. If you can't see that....

Furze99

What's the current revenge ratio for Netanyahu & IDF? 40:1?

If so, we may expect a few hundred Lebanese casualties till the score is settled.

combat14

alot of calls in israel to go strike iran in response to hezbollah attacks - but also calls for diplomacy we will have to see which prevails

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122436269#Comment_122436269

17,000 children murdered in Gaza Francy, with an average age of 5 years. Were Hamas hiding behind all of them Francy? Israel is the real murder machine in the region for many years before oct 7th and the amount of Gazans and West Bank civilians killed by the Israelis is terrible never mind the land grabbing, illegal arrests, shootings and beatings of civilians has been long called out. God help you if you cannot see what has been happening for so many years. But I know you can.

engineerws

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122437738#Comment_122437738

It's very hard to tell. It's only recently become apparent that the IDF murdered Israeli's on October 7 after the Hannibal directive was activated.

The final death toll from the attack is now thought to be 695 Israeli civilians, including 36 children, as well as 373 security forces and 71 foreigners, giving a total of 1,139.

So 36 children were murdered on October 7 but it's unclear how many were murdered by the IDF. Assuming all murdered by Hamas and 17,000 children murdered by the genocidal state of Israel. The child ratio is approx 472:1 but likely much higher with the lancet figure of 186,000 dead.

combat14

Erdoğan talking of invading israel - israel responds with he will end up like sadam - things at very low ebb

highpitcheric

Nato member now threatening Israel.

Another reason to never join.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122438645#Comment_122438645

NATO is a defense alliance, one member going rogue doesn't change that fact. Turkey cannot trigger article 5 if It has invaded another country, ie they are the agressor.

highpitcheric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122438658#Comment_122438658

Who knows how Israel may react. Nato membership may just make for a handy source of justification.

And if this us how Trukiye acts what might be next.

Best not get involved with such mess.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122438696#Comment_122438696

Makes no difference how Israel reacts, Turkey cannot trigger article 5 if they are the aggressors. It's a non NATO issue. NATO would not be drawn into it.

highpitcheric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122438704#Comment_122438704

Of course this is when Turkiye isnt threatening Greece, a fellow nato member.

And Turkiye borders Russia, with both under creaking, end-stage dictatorships.

Then theres the US, a big supporter of Israel, which Turkiye has just threatened. How will they react tomorrow? Or in November.

All a powder keg. Nato on the edge of war in a couple of ways.

Not for us.

highpitcheric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122438703#Comment_122438703

Israel could even make a pre-emptive strike on Turkiye. A nato member. Netanyahu is hawkish and unpredictable like that. Israel is well known to go rogue.

And US would never go against Israel.

Althoufh Im sure Turkiye would hit back.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122438716#Comment_122438716

Why are you dragging NATO (a defensive alliance) into independent countries conflicts?

You've gone from Turkey v Israel to Turkey v Greece… make up your mind.

Can I see your map that shows Turkey sharing a border with Russian?

combat14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122438565#Comment_122438565

iranian terrorists proxies and a turkish dictator hardly

highpitcheric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122438736#Comment_122438736

All relevant issues. Greece, Turkey, Israel, US, Russia. All have agendas. And this Turkish (nato member) threat to Israel now really mixes up the dynamics in the region.

All very unpredictable, and dangerous.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122438751#Comment_122438751

I'm pretty sure its been claimed daily that there is no bigger bloodthirsty terrorist than Israel in the region?

So surely Iran and Turkey need to be fully supported to eradicate the worst terrorists from the region (Israel). Or is it actually a case where people have lost all sense of reality in their demonisation of Israel?

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122438921#Comment_122438921

Criticising Israel for killing civilians daily in Gaza is not demonisation. The only poster that seems to be talking about eradicating Israel is you.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122438921#Comment_122438921

Il'd love to see this claim or is it just your latest line of complete and utter bs

What has been said, is that Israel has killed more than it has suffered casualties and it's not even close.

If we combined all of Israel's "enemies" out to destroy it and then see the kill rate of them v Israel when in conflict with each other, Israel is lightyears out in front such is the efficiency of their killing machine

Nobody has claimed Iran is not problematic, and many other nations, but for you to keep coming up with complete nothing burger shitposts show that you have not got a **** clue about what is actually happening now or historically and just how much blood is on the hands of Israel and the idf.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122439046#Comment_122439046

Ah so now Hamas/Hezbollah et al dont want to eradicate Israel? So much retconning.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122439233#Comment_122439233

Retconning? You seem to be alone now in supporting these groups in this thread. Or you are sarcastically supporting them, I cant really tell at this stage. It doesnt really add anything to the discussion.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122439066#Comment_122439066

Its because its hilarious the refusal to condemn anyone but Israel. Even in this word salad your bias shines through like an over the top parody. Israel is a "killing machine", the others are merely "problematic". When you say historically you obviously mean before October 6th but do you mean after September 1972 or do you also whatabout that away as a problematic incident?

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122439271#Comment_122439271

There's been plenty condemnation, look beyond your own bias for once though.

Historically, I mean since Israel existed as a sovereign state. They have a kill rate that far exceeds all others with whom they have been in conflict.

But if we just loom at the present one, prior to October 7th, in the 14 years prior, gige or take Israel had roughly an 18:1 kill rate . And the injured, maimed rate was far far higher.

They are an aggressor quite a number of instances. Preemptive strikes is not a defence as they've tried before.

You don't post anything of substance, just try to post something a little sarcastic and hope to get a reaction, but when posts that go into an awful lot of detail of what has happened you scurry off and wait until you can pop your head out again for some smart arse remark

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122439283#Comment_122439283

That answers your preferred timeline anyway.

nacho libre

Turkey is not going to attack Israel. Erdogan is making noises to appeal to his base. He knows well that if he attacks Israel it will likely be the end for him. He survived the coup in 2016 but there would be no surviving such an idiotic and dangerous step.

combat14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122438921#Comment_122438921

deleted

engineerws

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122438555#Comment_122438555

Remarkable for Turkey to be fighting against genocide and the US to be funding genocide. The USA has plunged into a moral abyss and that's not even mentioning how they had been assisting the Saudi's to slaughter people in Yemen until recently.

I wonder if there a Rubicon which the USA crosses and becomes global pariahs like Russia or is it okay for them and their proxies to murder with impunity indefinitely?

engineerws

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122438751#Comment_122438751

Wasn't Erdogan elected recently in a democratic election? If anything, shouldn't Israel be portrayed as the dictatorship in their apartheid state?

tayto lover

I don't know why Israel would want to annihilate any of their neighbours now as Israel has been so good and decent to them over the years.

SonicSuper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122440229#Comment_122440229

It's utterly laughable when you see the way they call Russia out on their war crimes and in the same breath are cheerleading a genocide in another part of the globe.

scottser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122436269#Comment_122436269

Well Francie, the UN has declared that both the Israeli government and Hamas both have committed war crimes. If you criticise Hamas, you must level the same at Netenbastard's actions.