Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Gerry T

A lot of what you say about Hamas is correct but your unwavering support for the IDF/Israel is hard to understand. I don't think you have once criticised their actions. Do you honestly think if Hamas weren't there that Israel wouldn't still be taking Palestinian land and bombing Palestine homes, they've being doing that for decades.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122339952#Comment_122339952

Bibi is obviously just playing games and has no intention to seek peace. He proposes things that he knows Hamas won't and probably can't agree to and that then gives him carte blanch to continue his attacks on the innocent Palestinians. Bibi doesn't want peace because he known that when the war ends so does his tenure as PM and then his past will catch up with him as the court cases begin.

sock.rocker*

I think Netenyahu knew he just needed to wait for the US election to take eyes off of Gaza, the same way Gaza took eyes off of Ukraine.

On the entire Guardian's international homepage page, there is just one news story title about it, no pictures. Palestinians are completely fuked. Gaza in ruins and Israel busy enacting a massive land grab in the West Bank.

kowloon

This thread is practically dead at this stage. Palestine/Israel just isn't hot enough anymore. Some of the focus has returned to Ukraine but a lot of it has gone on to UK, French and US elections it seems.

Odhinn

And on and on it goes………………

"At least 16 people were killed in an Israeli strike on a school
sheltering displaced Palestinian families in central Gaza, the
Palestinian health ministry said, in an attack Israel said had targeted
militants."

"In its daily update of people killed in the nearly nine-month-old
war, the Gaza health ministry said Israeli military strikes across the
enclave killed at least 29 Palestinians in the past 24 hours and wounded
100 others.

Among those killed in separate air strikes were five
local journalists, raising the toll of journalists killed since 7
October to 158, according to the Hamas-led Gaza government media office."

https://www.rte.ie/news/middle-east/2024/0706/1458580-israel-hamas-talks/

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122349730#Comment_122349730

Indeed and as usual it was followed by the excuse ' there were armed Hamas ' there. It is just wanton murder all along and the IDF are probably worse than Hamas at this stage.

engineerws

So, looks like more news coming out.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-07-07/ty-article-magazine/.premium/idf-ordered-hannibal-directive-on-october-7-to-prevent-hamas-taking-soldiers-captive/00000190-89a2-d776-a3b1-fdbe45520000

No 40 babies beheaded. No evidence presented of rape. Now

Haaretz does not know whether or how many civilians and soldiers were hit due to these procedures, but the cumulative data indicates that many of the kidnapped people were at risk, exposed to Israeli gunfire, even if they were not the target.

Have to give credit to Haaretz and the other Israeli's who pursued and published the truth.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122352072#Comment_122352072

They are a cowardly army the IDF.

nacho libre

Haaretz are obviously Hamas supporters and anti semitic as well. Gideon Levy, who works for this paper, is a great man. No doubt he is considered a traitor by the likes of the finance minister and his ilk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122352072#Comment_122352072

I notice Secretary Blinken has been quiet lately, perhaps he is busy preparing sanctions against the said finance minister for his comments and recent actions regarding the West Bank.

tayto lover

Putin now targeting Children's hospitals in Ukraine. He and Netanyahu are so similar. Suffer the little children.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122356762#Comment_122356762

I reckon the Russians just noticed the strong support from many in the West (and on here) for the IDF bombing kids hospitals in Gaza.

Sure all the Russians need to do is say there were tunnels or enemy fighters somewhere nearby and let the defenders of its actions spring into motion

Brussels Sprout

Sheer evil. There's no other word for this sort of thing

https://twitter.com/swilkinsonbc/status/1810774334769860915

Weepsie

Hypocrisy is how quick Russia are rightly condemned yet deafening silence on Israels bombing of hospitals and schools.

More women and children dead today

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jul/10/israel-gaza-war-latest-today-khan-younis-strike-abassan-death-toll

About 3 pages of comments have disappeared here too in my browser

Timberrrrrrrr

...

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122357838#Comment_122357838

I think it may be the other way around. The war in Ukraine and Russian impunity could be having a corrosive effect on "norms" imo. It's pretty disturbing and worrying.

Netanyahu definitely admires Putin. He is massively arrogant, probably believes if the Russians can do all these war crimes day in day out, and get away with it scot free, why not us too as a "great nation" backed up by the US, esp. after suffering the Oct. 7th attack?

Spudmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122352072#Comment_122352072

Don't give the credit to Haaretz for this one. This was found to be the case over 3 months ago by Al Jazeera. But because they are Qatari funded they'd probably be regarded as unreliable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0atzea-mPY

All of this was known however as soon as Israel announced their list of the dead.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/14-kids-under-10-25-people-over-80-up-to-date-breakdown-of-oct-7-victims-we-know-about/

No 40 beheaded babies, no babies found in ovens. Even though this was parroted by Biden, Blinken, Murray and a whole host of Knesset members who apparently saw videos detailing as such. Yet not a solitary one have come out and redacted their statements. It's not like the US would make up false information regarding atrocities committed against kids to gain public support for an unjustifiable war.

Ahem… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony

Ironically a lot of the atrocities that were pinned on Hamas as having happened, and which have subsequently been proven to be false have now been committed by Israel and yet there is zero mainstream condemnation of it. Russia bombs a hospital in Ukraine and Starmer, Trudeau etc are on Twitter immediately condemning it. A school filled with kids in Gaza is bombed the same day and there's **** crickets. They are either racist, bought or both. Easy to condemn something when your "morals" align with your interests.

This is going to shake Israeli society massively that its being reported internally. They can't and won't defeat Hamas. They haven't a hope of defeating Hezbollah. And their own security forces can not only not protect them, but are actually willing to kill them rather than see them taken hostage.

Oh and cause it hasn't been posted here yet. The Lancet estimates the death toll in Gaza could be as high as 186,000 people due to the sum total of the effects cause by Israel's genocide.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3/fulltext

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122361179#Comment_122361179

That is just horribly inhuman. The only Democracy in the Middle East. Shame on anyone who can back that or not condemn it.

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122362410#Comment_122362410

Democracies tend to cause some of the worst war crimes.

Israel have always been evil, democracy doesn't change that .

Weepsie

So I won't bother quoting the person who can't take any levelheaded criticism of Joe Biden, but here is the US's updated exports table for 2024 to include may.

They exported weapons with a great $ value than they did in April, this in spite of the pause on 500 and 2000lb bombs.

So I think we can definitively put to the bed the absolute nonsense claim that Joe Biden halted the export of weapons to Israel and he continues to be complicit along with his government in aiding the slaughter of normal palestinians

https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/product/atp/atpg09.html

And today they announced the intention to resume sending 500lb dumb bombs and implied that they were only paused because they were already packed and ready to be shipped with the 2000lb bombs so it was merely a logistical decision there and not really because they give a **** about the ongoing butchery by the IDf

tayto lover

Is the Peace Process dead in the water again? Seeing nothing new in the News lately.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122362136#Comment_122362136

Not sure on your point. The US, UK, etc. spoke out against Russia, condemned them and helped the people at risk defend themselves. Whereas when it came to Gaza, they armed the ones doing the killing and shielded them against official criticism and action.

nacho libre

Nethanyu has expressed admiration for Putin in the past. The US government recently praised the Israeli IDF for killing less civilians in Rafah than they have in other parts of Gaza. They also are putting pressure on Starmer to continue the case started by the Tories against the ICC.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122368949#Comment_122368949

It seems to have fallen by the wayside. Biden announced it the end of May. He didn't have anyone fully on board andnow doesn't seems motivated to get both parties to accept even a ceasefire. Biden seems to have alot of problems now so probably trying to keep Gaza out of the news.

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122369005#Comment_122369005

Yes, I suppose Russia didn't get away with it entirely (scot) free, so that was wrong. My point wasn't to deny hypocrisy, esp. in the American behaviour. Russia does have some supporters + allies too of course, willing to excuse what they do or help them; just not the US/Western countries that are allies of Israel.

My point was just that Russia's invasion (and their war crimes, and justifications etc.) happened first, and I don't think Netanyahu ever saw much wrong with it at all, given Israeli govt.'s distinct lack of support for Ukraine/condemnation of Russia.

As said, he may feel Israel is a "great power" too, possessing rights to behave similarly to Russia in pursuit of its interests and goals when needs must. Unlike Putin, I suppose he will still have to get enough of the rest of the people to go along with him!

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122369245#Comment_122369245

I'm thinking that its all a game and only words uttered to pretend that they are doing something to get peace when in reality they have given the green light to Bibi.

Odhinn

Slow drip mass murder

"Around 60 bodies were found under the rubble of a Gaza city
neighbourhood, officials in the Hamas-run territory have said, after
Israel's military declared an end to its operation there."

https://www.rte.ie/news/middle-east/2024/0712/1459482-gaza-israel-war/

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122371078#Comment_122371078

It is mass murder of innocents including medical personnel -

Ms Touma said that, over four days, four schools were hit.

"All of them have been used as shelters for displaced families.

"As a result, many people sheltering in those schools, more than 500 in fact, have been killed.

"These are people who have come to seek protection under the United Nations flag," she said.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122369245#Comment_122369245

Starmer you would hope given he is from the legal profession would tell the US to go **** themselves, but he's an incredibly odd one. He has represented Irish prisoners against the crown who were tested reprehensibly by prison staff but has also excused some abhorrent behaviour by police

Donald Trump

CNN highlighting abuses again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXLANlZX4tg

nacho libre

I am hearing reports Mohamed Dief( the leader of Hamas's military wing)maybe dead,although the IDF on previous occasions thought they had eliminated him. If it is confirmed it wil probably make it even harder for a ceasefire to happen. I also read that Hamas had agreed as part of a ceasefire to cede control of Gaza to a US trained Palestinian force.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122374906#Comment_122374906

Is he dead yet again or is he being kept 'alive' to justify the murders of more innocent Palestinian women and children?

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122375585#Comment_122375585

I know that but if they have an excuse ready they can kill even more than usual. Another huge bomb on a tented camp.

rogber

Another close to hundred civilians murdered today in an attempt to get a Hamas leader, Israeli response basically"we don't know if we got the guy we wanted, if not it's only another bunch of dead Palestinians, who gives a f*ck".

Cue more outrage and anger from world politicians followed by zero action. Sickening

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122375585#Comment_122375585

They need no reason and have no reason. Full of sh*te and the civilised world will never forget or forgive. What a horrible miserable legacy for the ordinary people of Israel. And all because they haven't the collective balls to stand up for what they know is right.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122376549#Comment_122376549

The comments from Israelis on social media are off the wall : "there are no innocent civilians in Gaza" etc. That is one seriously effed up and dysfunctional society.

Francie Barrett

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/14/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-deif-assassination-attempt.html

The IDF may just killed the man who is second in command of Hamas.

Hamas has no option but to go back to the negotiating table, said Mkhaimar Abusada, a political science professor at Gaza’s Al-Azhar University, which is affiliated with Fatah, the main Palestinian political rival of Hamas.

“Hamas is in a very bad position,” he said. “It has been pushed into a corner militarily, and there is no question that it has been weakened after nine months.”

It's been clear for months now. Hamas must end their war of aggression now to stop the suffering of the Palestinians.

nacho libre

https://youtu.be/bPIp7GA3tns?si=dTBqtn2ldR1FoOp_

It has also been clear for months Nethanyu doesn't want a permanent end to the war. Hamas seem to be keen for a ceasefire but Nethanyu keeps stalling as he knows the far right will walk. He also knows the pressure to hold a public inquiry will grow- something he has been keen to avoid thus far. He doesn't mind others been held accountable.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122382836#Comment_122382836

It will all come out in time and Bibi will go down as being the monster everyone knows he is. Unfortunately thousands more innocents will perish before that happens.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122384485#Comment_122384485

Bibi is just a single individual that the Israeli public can blame the killings for that take place in their name. He is bad but there are a host of people in Israel who support the slaughter of civilians- there doesnt seem a replacement for Bibi that thinks any different to him. We are up to a bodycount of 40k , if Bibi didnt have popular support this would not continue. With neither the US or Israeli public pushing for a stop, this looks like continuing for a good few months.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122384755#Comment_122384755

Well,yes he has been returned to power for much of the last 20 years which indicates he has had widespread support. You are echoing a point made by Norman Finkelstein that Bibi is not an aberration, rather he is a reflection of the mentality of a lot of Israelis. As said he wouldn't have been returned to power so often otherwise.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122382440#Comment_122382440

I dont know if you're naive or ignorant, but at what point does Israel's constant aggression that predates the October 7th attacks get into your head and you can acknowledge that Israel doesn't actually give a flying **** about Hamas and is steadily going about dehumanising and colonising as much as Palestine as it can get away with .

Netanyahu aided Hamas funding after all. He is the person who has the responsibility to stop this.

Any thinking otherwise is a dangerous level of ignorance

Francie Barrett

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122384888#Comment_122384888

You're the only one displaying naivete and ignorance.

Hamas were given the keys to Gaza when Israel withdrew 20 years ago. Instead of looking to develop Gaza for the betterment of their citizens, they used that time to build a war machine. Their intention? It was to kill Jews and annihilate the Israeli state. All their statements to this effect are public, they make no apologies, nor do they try to hide this.

Israel has every right to go after this filthy regime that has never done a tap for the people they claim to represent, has stolen and raped from them, and then uses them as human shields.

If Hamas had any shred of decency, they would recognise the futility of their war of aggression and sue for peace. They won't though, they are determined to take the Palestinian people down with them rather than surrender.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122385398#Comment_122385398

Once again, head buried in the sand.

I've not by the way, here or elsewhere denied tje problems Hamas present, and have historically presented, but to try and say it's all on them is the height of complete and utter nonsense.

Keep swallowing the bullshit.

Even the idea that Israel withdrew is fanciful.

Helicopter fire into Gaza, gunboats firing into Gaza. Regularly dehumanised but idf troops, not allowed into own international waters, airport bombed, water supply cut off deliberately, ports blockaded. All that is being done by Israel. So yeah, they are very much part of the problem, all while they are grabbing land and making refugees of 10,000s of people in the occupied West bank.

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122385398#Comment_122385398

"Hamas were given the keys to Gaza when Israel withdrew 20 years ago. "

No, that was Fatah

Francie Barrett

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122385444#Comment_122385444

Israel removed all their settlements from Gaza. They also gave Gaza a high degree of autonomy after they left. Hamas could have used that time to develop Gaza as a great place to live for the Palestinians, they could have demonstrated they two communities could exist side by side.

They didn't bother with any of that, did they fcuk 😀

They are an implacable enemy. Their only goal is to destroy Israel, that is literally it. Either Israel survives, or Hamas wins. There's no going back to peaceful co-existence with Hamas after this.

nacho libre

Sharon didn't leave Gaza as a gesture of good will. Some posters might be keen to portray it as that but it certainly wasn't. Bibi was happy to prop up Hamas to weaken Fatah prior to October 7th. As per usual any inconvenient facts are ignored so as to avoid criticising Israel. The bias renders some incapable of seeing that Hamas and The Israeli right used each other to justify their respective positions prior to October 7th. Even if Hamas are defeated in Gaza, the situation in the West Bank is an indicator of what will happen in Gaza post Hamas. Bibi and his ilk have no interest in a two state solution so they will need a variant of hamas to emerge to justify their intransigence.

We have in fact seen this twice before whereby Israeli goverments have given support to Islamists to weaken their more moderate rivals.

Of course the usual suspects will continue to apportion blame to one side only.

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122385900#Comment_122385900

For the second time, no, that was Fatah.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122385900#Comment_122385900

Thwy did nt have a peaceful coexistce as evidence by the many thousands of Palestinians injured or killed by Israel in the last 20 years

You simply haven't a clue and have stalled the Israel bullshit

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122385988#Comment_122385988

Pretty hilarious considering some completely refuse to blame anyone other than Israel.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122386181#Comment_122386181

That maybe so. Whereas you realise there are valid criticisms to be made of both Hamas and the Israeli government. Which you have spent most of the thread doing. You haven't sought to deflect criticism of Israel with one liners.