Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451739#Comment_122451739

Can't you actually look at some of the minutes a detailed research yourself instead of Wikipedia

That article fails to detail how some committee members had in fact made a breakthrough and that a Palestinian delegation was willing to be part of UNSCOp but this was rejected by the US and Israel.

It's a large part to why the UK abstained. But it you want to be very selective and show again that you only half know what your talking about work away.

All of this was posted months ago though and you ignored it then too

Rezident

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451335#Comment_122451335

Calling the political leader of Hamas a "peace talks negotiator" is like calling Donald Trump a "progressive beacon of unity". Trump mentioned "unity" (briefly) after being shot, but there is rather more to it that that, isn't there?

Do you believe that Ismail Haniyeh was just an innocent "peace talks negotiator" or do you just say things that are deliberately misleading and biased to suit a radical agenda?

Would you not rather be balanced and informed? Was the political leader of HAMAS involved in anything other than peace talks, do you think? Or are you told what to think?

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451875#Comment_122451875

Sounds to me you are cherry-picking bits but ignoring the general strand of what happened.

The Zionists engaged in the process and lobbied hard for their cause.

The Arab delegation mostly refused and found the outcome to not to their liking.

When a decision was made, they then launched a war on the new state of Israel, which they lost.

They have made strategic error after error for decades, and then one wonders why they are in this position.

At the end of the day, UN Resolution 181(II) was passed and was an attempt in creating a 2 state solution, a solution you and I agree on. It is a bit rich to talk about the minutes of meetings 80 years ago as some bad attempt to sweep under the carpets all the errors the Arab leaders made since then.

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451770#Comment_122451770

Yes, I favour the 2 state solution.

Donald Trump

All this stuff about the "Arabs in 1948" is gaslighting nonsense.

Russia basically invaded Ukraine in 2014 (Crimea + "little green men" in Eastern Ukraine).

Imagine if, at that time, the so-called world powers, on their own, decided to "do a deal" among themselves by granting what was already occupied by Russians, plus a bit more, to those Russians.

Ukraine says no. The West backs the Russians and Ukraine gets annihilated in the resulting conflict. The ones remaining are pushed into a small province. Over the following years, The Russians continues to take more of the little bit the Ukrainians were left on. Kill them at will with very little fear of consequence. Manufacture reasons to go periodically to kill a few tens of thousands of them. All backed by the West.

Then in 2024 we could have had internet warriors posting on boards.ie how it's all the dirty stupid hohol's fault for not accepting the peace deal.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451869#Comment_122451869

According to the Times of Israel the strike on Dief wouldn't have gone ahead if he was surrounded by Israeli Hostages. When the intelligence confirmed he wasn't the strike was authorised. This is the crux of the problem and pointing it out is not sympathising with Hamas as some previous childish posts would like to suggest. As an adult it's possible to be against both Hamas, and Israel's reckless disregard for Palestinan civilians. Something even their closest ally has criticised them for in the past. I suppose they must also be pro hamas for doing that

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122450415#Comment_122450415

Could you not use the intel you have to take out Good oul Benjamin as well … you know , the sooner it ends the better

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122450993#Comment_122450993

Yeah but only "after proponents of partition feared that the proposal would not receive the required two-thirds majority and succeeded in delaying the vote for three days, giving more time for the intense lobbying and pressures brought to bear on member states, primarily by Washington and Zionist organizations."

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451974#Comment_122451974

So, despite all your protestations, you actually agree in principle with the aims of UN Resolution 181(II), that is the partition of Palestine between Jewish and Arab areas.

If only most Palestinians shared your view there might be peace.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122452118#Comment_122452118

Imagine if, at that time, the so-called world powers, on their own, decided to "do a deal" among themselves by granting what was already occupied by Russians, plus a bit more, to those Russians.

You don't have to imagine it, because it happened.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potsdam_Conference

No one today talks about the bits of Germany lost to Poland or Czechoslovakia.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122452372#Comment_122452372

I am not sure what your point is.

Are you saying nations and organisations are wrong to lobby for their cause?

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122447635#Comment_122447635

That is one puzzle. Why kill thousands of innocents when they can be so clinical ? Its as if they want to kill innocents.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122452411#Comment_122452411

It's the Israeli way.

Only this time it's an absolute PR disaster. Exactly what Hamas wanted.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451925#Comment_122451925

The process only consulted the Zionists. The delegation refused on the grounds of a 2 state solution was the only one being proposed and no other would be entertained.

There was an ad hoc committee set up to try and act as conciliatory council and find some sort of middle ground. When they had said they had found a middle ground, and would like to bring it to UNSCOP the USA and a few others basically told them oiss off it's his or nothing.

Why on earth would they accept a solution that cedes over 50% of the land to less than 5% of the population and leaves them with little of any worth and forces them to move.

More to the point, plenty of countries lobbies against the solution that was implemented but they were given very short shrift , again mostly due to the alarming and heavy handed influence of the US during the entire process

And when the decision was made, it was Zionists who started a terror campaign of bombing in the Palestine area in November and December. Once again z you don't have a clue of the process of events as they happened.

aidanodr

Interesting .. sounds like 2022 when US warned Russian attack on Ukraine imminent

"Pentagon officials:

In the next 72 hours, Iran and its allies will launch a large-scale attack on Israel."

https://twitter.com/HananyaNaftali/status/1818945230508314796

PeggyShippen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122452433#Comment_122452433

The Palestinians been rejecting deals ever since. We all saw on October 7th what the Palestinians really want. A huge amount want to rape and pillage and kill the Jews. 80% of Arabs in the west Bank support Hamas in some polls. Thats real mad stuff. Wow..theres a group that I wouldn't be rushing to do a deal with.

Lads what about the 2 million Arabs that are Israeli citizens. Why aren't they arming and kicking off Against their Zionist oppressors? Wheres their Ricahrd Boyd Barratt to lead them. ll tell you ...his type arent wanted . They have it too good in Israel. They've jobs, freedom to assemble and liberal western values and they don't want to jeopardise that. Most of the criticism of Israel from Irish posters is bizarre anti West , left wing nonsense . How many have been to Israel..lived there? Iv been there many times and it's a beacon of hope surrounded by a cesspool of Islamic states

combat14

Top Iranian officials will meet the representatives of Iran’s regional allies from Lebanon, Iraq and Yemen on Thursday to discuss potential retaliation against Israel after the killing of the Hamas leader in Tehran, five sources told Reuters. The region faces a risk of widened conflict between Israel, Iran and its proxies after Ismail Haniyeh’s assasination in Tehran on Wednesday and the killing of Hezbollah’s senior commander on Tuesday in an Israeli strike on the outskirts of the Lebanese capital Beirut. (The Guardian UK)

sure sounds like iran planning scyronised attack on israel

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122452561#Comment_122452561

Anything to say of the illegal annexation and occupation of Palestinian land, the creation of thousands Upon thousands of refugees too in the process.

Anything to say of the verified rape of Palestinians by idf soldiers.

Anything to say on the internment of ordinary citizens for no reason other than where they happen to be on any given day?

If Isrsel is a beacon of hope, the world is truly and utterly fucked. A country that routinely bombs children, starves them, and makes them homeless orphans is not a beacon of hope.

And you're spouting bollox about the freedom of Arabs in Israel. It's been done to death here. Very much for the most part second class citizens with poor representation and limited rights.

Cesspool of islamic states. Just some good old classic xenophobia there in that one statement and i say this as someone who has been very critical of many of those states in the past and still am.

But to claim Israel is some sort of progressive beacon of hope is bullshit of the highest magnitude

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122452561#Comment_122452561

Israel has never treated the Palestinians any other way than with brutality. Continually locking up innocent people and stealing the WB lands is hardly going to win many friends. Israel is a brutally repressive state and the entire world has seen that now.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122452563#Comment_122452563

Answering Bibi's prayers.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122452563#Comment_122452563

I wonder what their tactic will be this time around. Initial wave of slow moving drones from Iran just gives Israel hours and hours of time to prepare and for Israel and allies to just shoot them down.

combat14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122452666#Comment_122452666

probably some sort of coordinated attack at same time from all sides to try and overwhelm israel or maybe an assassination of their own

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122452376#Comment_122452376

If only most Israelies wpuld stop their colonisation of the West Bank, Arab East Jerusalem etc

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122452561#Comment_122452561

A "beacon of hope" thats colonising outside it's borders, has legal torture, anally rapes prisoners……….

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122452561#Comment_122452561

the palestinian and other hostages held by israel, many for years including children, who are subject to rape and torture on a daily basis, have none of those.

even many non-hostages in israel don't have access to those.

israel is not a beacon of hope or of anything, it is a terrorist state who is responsible for the majority of trouble in the middle east and all on the back of the american tax payer.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122452392#Comment_122452392

Your posts are really warped tbh

thatsdaft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122452666#Comment_122452666

Shocked picachu faces when Israel counter attacks

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451343#Comment_122451343

actually, israel losing is a very big possibility now.
in 1967 the arab nations had depleted and ineffective militaries where as once 1967 came israel got a whole load of american stuff by immotionally blackmailing them.
the thing now is a lot of the world are sick of israel's behaviour and are going to resent their taxes providing help and aid to a state that is ungreatful and self-entitled, weaponises the holocost and more to hold countries to ransom.
degrading iran's power will only ever be temporary, they will get it back quickly and will keep israel at bay.
october 7th has nothing to do with how much territory palistinians would get, seeing as israel wants all of the land including large parts of it's other neighbour's territory.
the west bank will be part of the palistinian territories and the illegal colonists/invaders will be expelled, the illegal occupation of the west bank being down to israel being on a constant land grab and nothing to do with the palistinians in any way.
the settlers/invaders/colonists will be moved, armed or not they will be driven out and are legitimate targets for any force willing to do that.

combat14

how israel got their man in iran - looks like mossad has been patient and busy

Bomb Smuggled Into Tehran Guesthouse Months Ago Killed Hamas Leader

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/01/world/middleeast/how-hamas-leader-haniyeh-killed-iran-bomb.html

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451759#Comment_122451759

israel only won the 6 day war because of america.

if israel were left to do it themselves they would be back within their borders.

these killings aren't that big of a deal as they will be replaced by the next one and the next one so it's really just a head ache for those groups but not the biggest deal ever and not some massive military victory.

Sudden Valley

This killing though technically impressive really changes nothing long term. Hezbollah and Iran are going nowhere and will remain a threat no matter how Israel bloodies their noses now. 10% of the Israeli Jewish population live on illegal settlements so I can't see them being dismantled and thus no peace in our lifetimes. The current Palestinian and Israel leaders really have done nothing to provide any hope of long term peace.

People must be mad to immigrate to that region.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122452995#Comment_122452995

You might realise it's not a game - with no effects for you - if things kick off and you go to order your fill of heating oil in October.

Or even putting petrol in your car in a few weeks.

Others will die, but it might also cost you money. So I wouldn't be sneering and laughing at the potential deaths yet

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122452433#Comment_122452433

The process only consulted the Zionists. The delegation refused on the grounds of a 2 state solution was the only one being proposed and no other would be entertained.

You need to correct this statement.

The Arab leadership and delegation refused to engage with the UNSCOP. They thought putting their fingers in their ears and shouting "Lalalala" was a good strategy for getting their way.

They were clear in their demands.

No compromise, they wanted full rule over all of Palestine and they were openly talking about 'expelling' hundreds of thousands of Jews from the land.

They wanted a one party state, ruled by Arabs, for Arabs with only a smattering of Jews here and there.

Do you think that was a reasonable position to take? Do you not think it as extreme, unworkable and utterly naive, even for 1947?

You support a 2 state solution, but you appear to also support the Arab position of 1947 where there should only one state, an Arab state.

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122452410#Comment_122452410

Note the words Intense lobbying and applying pressure to states to vote in a certain way

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122452433#Comment_122452433

Why on earth would they accept a solution that cedes over 50% of the land to less than 5% of the population

You say that I dont have a clue but you post facts that are simply untrue.

The Jewish population of Palestine accounted for approx 35% of the population at the time, the Arab Muslim population was about 50-55% and the rest were Christian and others.

What the Arab delegation wanted was majority rule.

No partition, no powersharing, no 2-state solution.

They also wanted to ethnicly cleanse the area from newly arrived Jews from war-torn Europe.

Frangieh told the committee that Jews "illegally" in Palestine would be expelled while the situation of those "legally" in Palestine but without Palestinian citizenship would be resolved by a future Arab government.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Special_Committee_on_Palestine

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122452995#Comment_122452995

I'm actually thinking if they went with the previous tactic of launching slow moving drones hours in advance, Israel would just take out their missile launchers as they would have hours notice.

That previous attack was ineffective, mainly because Hezbollah didn't join in. If they do this time, I'm sure they will regret it. Israel would hammer them while Iran watches on.

PeggyShippen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122453079#Comment_122453079

Are their kids legitimate targets aswell? Anyway you keep dreaming. Israel is going nowhere.

It's got nuclear weapons. The bottom line is that most if not all the countries in the middle east know is if Israel is overwhelmed or pushed right to the edge they ll nuke Iran,Mecca ,Medina and any other place. That's a fair old deterrent. And the Americans will never ever back off supporting the Israelis and in fairness ...the UK,Austria,Germany ..ect have been fantastic and as much as I dislike Von der Leyen she's been an excellent support to Israel. Glad she's re elected

markodaly

This makes interesting reading for the art of diplomacy, influence and soft power.

The Zionists played the game very well in 1947, the Arabs, not so much.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Special_Committee_on_Palestine

 When visiting Jewish areas, committee members were warmly welcomed, often with flowers and cheering crowds. When the committee visited Tel Aviv, a public holiday was declared.[13] The streets were decorated with flags and posters and crowds surrounded the delegates during their tour of the city. 

Contrasted to

By contrast, committee members were ignored and faced hostility in Arab areas. During UNSCOP visits to Arab areas, they were often met with empty streets, as well as locals who refused to answer their questions and even fled restaurants when they arrived. In one instance, when committee members visited a school in Beersheba, the pupils were instructed not to look at the visitors. During a visit to an Arab village in the Galilee

the entire population was evacuated except for children who remained behind and cursed at the visitors. 

To be honest, the saying is correct.

"Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity"

The Zionists at the time were fighting for their own homeland. But the Arab leadership seemed aloof, out of touch and outright stupid in their strategy.

Once a decision was made, and voted on in the UN, they cried crocodile tears but then went to war.

Like the Israelis won the PR war with the UNSCOP, they also won that war.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122453216#Comment_122453216

Theres nothing wrong with my statement. You can't help being wrong.

They boycotted because it was only proposing a single solution. When they had agreed to come to the table thanks to the efforts of he and hoc conciliatory group they were not given any heed. The vote was postponed for this group to have 24 hours to put together it's findings and when they did present them, they were told too late this is the deal.

What about this don't you under stand because it seems to be you have no clue as to what happened beyond the the very problematic final outcome.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122453321#Comment_122453321

They boycottes because it was only proposing a single solution

A two-state solution? Why is that a bad thing? Should a one-state solution have been on the table, in your opinion?

In hindsight do you think the boycott was a terrible miscalculation?

Are you saying that the findings of the UNSCOP were done, dusted and signed off on before any of them visted Palestine?

beyond the the very problematic final outcome

That final outcome being a 2 state solution, a solution more or less supported by everyone, including you?

I dont understand how you can be against a 2 state solution in 1947, but for it now…

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122453283#Comment_122453283

I'm going to move the goalposts like you do so very often. In 1917 the population was less than 10%, a little over 5% when this push really began.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122452563#Comment_122452563

Sounds ominous, but it could be noise.

The Israelis should be able to handle it though, and have an ace up their sleave with US backing if needs be.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122453345#Comment_122453345

I never ever said a 2 state solution was a bad thing. Once more take something I haven't said and attribute to me.

The United kingdom absyained saying they could have no part in the UNSCOp solution because it was not going to work. They were right. They should have blocked it and made it go back.

It was half baked and this is fundamental to why here are so many issues today .

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122453351#Comment_122453351

We were talking about 1947, the year the UNSCOP visited Palestine.

That is the dataset that is important.

You also don't answer the question in regards to the one-state solution that the Arab delegation wanted and their clear intent to ethnically cleanse hundreds of thousands of Jews from the land.

An inconvienient truth?

A 2 state solution was the best outcome for all, but the Arabs refused to accept their loss and here we are… 80 years later and they still have not accepted it.

PeggyShippen

The Americans are the big Daddy of the allies but let's give the UK some credit..Alot of the high altitude surveillance is done by the RAF out of cyprus including one by Cork Pilot mate of mine. Cyprus is actually central to all this. Aircraft carriers are great but to have that huge base at RAF Akrotiri is a big logistical advantage.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122453361#Comment_122453361

I never ever said a 2 state solution was a bad thing.

The main premise of the UNSCOP and UN Resolution 181(II) was a 2 state solution.

You seem intent on trying to discredit it.

It was half baked and this is fundamental to why here are so many issues today .

What exactly about it was half-baked?

Let's say we agree that the UNSCOP was always going to advocate a 2 state solution/parition, what in your mind should have happened instead?

It seems to me that your main argument is that the plan was not 'perfect' (no plan is), but we have no evidence that the Arab delegation would have accepted partition and a 2 state solution anyhow. We know what the Arabs wanted, (One state majority rule and kicking out all the new Jewish immigrants) and it appears they were dogmatic, uncompromising, and without alternatives. This is an issue even today, Arafat refused a 2 state solution for example.

The more I read about the Arab attitudes of the time, it reminds me of dogmatic Ulster Unionist ala Ian Paisley.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122453403#Comment_122453403

Keep ignoring that they had agreed to enter talks due to the efforts of the ad hoc conciliatory committee

Again, that's not me saying the 2 state solution was a bad idea. This is you being once again deliberately ignorant of what I have said and trying to twist it into something.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122453368#Comment_122453368

And the 2 state solution forced the Palestine populations out of their homees and turned them into refugees at the stroke of a pen.

The world had come out of 6 years of conflict after decades of numerous other conflicts. Nationalism was still dangerous. The world was slowly moving away from colonialism (USSR aside) and a massive refugee crises already existed and they created 1.5 million more overnight.

It was a completely Immoral decision

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122453389#Comment_122453389

Clap, clap, clap.

The Israelis are indeed backed by the US, UK and many other countries BUT it doesn't make their brutality any less hard to take and never will. Might is not always right. At least decent people have seen the Israeli crimes at first hand and the UN and the ICC have called them out for their crimes against humanity. Murdering 17,000 children and as many again women is something to be ashamed of and not lauded as you seem to be doing. Israel is a basket case.

Weepsie

And before you come back about lobbying for interests. No population for ever have to lobby to not be forced out of their homes.