Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Rosahane

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123008805#Comment_123008805

Interesting that you choose to attack the messenger not the message.

Is this an admission that you agree that Al Jazeera are Hamas proxies?

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123009073#Comment_123009073

I'm afraid the only proxy here is the relationship between the PA and Israel.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123009431#Comment_123009431

Quite telling that you dismiss the opinions of the Palestinian Authority , the fatah-controlled government body that exercises partial civil control over the Palestinian enclaves in the Israeli-occupied West Bank.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123009073#Comment_123009073

I attacked no-one - simply asked for a source or evidence for a claim that was made.

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123009677#Comment_123009677

…an utterly corrupt body.

H_Lime

"A testing ground for technological warfare. We saw a number of drones dropping bombs and then off the back of those drones they've got quadcopters that come down and shoot anything that's left moving. We had a number of children telling us they would just have to lay there after an explosion so that they wouldn't get shot"

https://youtu.be/l2pflJrc_lw?si=h5OKW_K5Dn4QtNa2

Be under no allusions about what's happening over there.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123010323#Comment_123010323

At least the Palestinian Authority, the Palestinian body that exercises partial civil control over the Palestinian enclaves in the Israeli-occupied West Bank is not like Hamas and does not deliberately kill over a thousand innocent people, rape hundreds, put babies in to ovens on front of their mothers, kidnap hundreds, drag more behind motorbikes back to Gaza in front of cheering crowds there etc.

Of course you would prefer Hamas. Ever strike you they were corrupted by Iran?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123012537#Comment_123012537

Isn't it mad the power of hasbara to the people who so so want to believe it

Even when it is debunked ("babies in ovens" lie), it can still be brought up as some kind of justification for blowing starving and helpless women and kids to bits with high-tech long distance weaponry.

How do we get around such brainwashing of (presumably gullible or at least susceptible to misinformation) people

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123012556#Comment_123012556

The Palestinian Authority have a better idea of what is going on in Palestine than you, and yet you reject their opinions in favour of a terror group, Hamas.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123012556#Comment_123012556

You do not think Hamas committed atrocities?

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/hamas-roasted-babies-in-ovens-israel/

https://nypost.com/2023/11/01/news/head-of-israels-ems-service-describes-horror-of-seeing-babies-slaughtered-by-hamas/

Sudden Valley

https://www.sochfactcheck.com/media-consensus-reveals-no-evidence-of-israeli-baby-burned-in-oven-by-hamas/

It does no one's case any good if sides start lying about atrocities. Haaretz has researched these dubious claims and debunked them. if posters are posting wild stories from just after the attack they are invariably going to to be spreading misinformation and damage their own credibility.

Fuascailteoir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123012615#Comment_123012615

You are peddling lies to justify genocide. Utterly contemptible. You are a total disgrace

Mod Edit: Warning issued for uncivil posting

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123012537#Comment_123012537

But whatabout….

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123012556#Comment_123012556

Some people are not only willing to hold up any old lie if it's a lie that favours a stance they have sold themselves on, but they'll be also willing to repeat them at the drop of a hat.

The trouble is that they don't even really believe the lies themselves. But when you're backed into a corner on a disreputable stance, lies are all you have.

The Star of David flag wavers have become absolute masters of that type of self deception.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123013062#Comment_123013062

I gave you links to show you babies were found in ovens after the Hamas attack of Oct '23, which murdered 1200, kidnapped hundreds, raped people etc. I am, not saying if that was or was not "genocide". I am certainly not justifying, nor did I ever justify, "genocide".

If anyone is a disgrace, I would suggest sir you are one.

Mod Edit: Warning Issued for uncivil posting

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123013571#Comment_123013571

The "evidence" of babies in ovens and a fetus cut from a mother's womb came from Zaka (private Israeli search & rescue organisation) members. Privately funded, it was proven they lied to drum up support and get the Israeli public to donate money to them.

Unfortunately you seem to repeat many "facts" that have consistently been corrected. Your credibility suffers as a result.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/zaka-exploited-hamass-october-7-attack-to-campaign-for-donations-report/amp/

Fuascailteoir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123013571#Comment_123013571

Your links are to thoroughly discredited information. Lies and propaganda designed to fill coffers and pave the way for retaliation against the innocent civilians of the strip. You are regurgitating rubbish from the worst fantasists and fanatics

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123013635#Comment_123013635

Rubbish. You link says things like " A volunteer from a different organization told Haaretz that ZAKA …."

Paper does not refuse ink. An individual can tell Haaretz ( a left wing publication with a relatively small circulation) anything he wants. It does not alter what Hamas did in Oct 23 when it invaded Israel and murdered 1200 innocents in the early hours of the morning, many at a music concert, kidnapped hundreds etc etc.

I suppose you will say the pictures Hamas supporters took and put on social media of innocent Israelies being tied with rope behind a motorbike and then dragged on the ground back towards Gaza, to the cheers of the Palestinians, were all staged too.

If you were around in 1945 you would probably say the extermination camps were not too bad, and were really just holiday camps, and sure Hitler was not a bad lad and there was no reason to invade Germany resulting in the deaths of millions of other Germans. You may even have agreed on sending condolences on the death of Hitler?

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123009677#Comment_123009677

The PA hardly controls anything. It is more like they administer shards of territory here and there on behalf of Israel. Remember that they are unelected, too. The last election was held in 2006, and was won by Hamas. The current satrap, Abbas, was elected in 2005 for 4 years, I think it was, and has been squatting in the position for the last 15 years or so without legitimacy.

Several years ago he mooted the idea of elections, but they never happened. An educated guess is that he was pressured into not doing so, as neither Israel nor the USA wanted to change the current setup.

Gerry T

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123015922#Comment_123015922

I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was true what has been levelled at Hamas. They are a terrorist group that needs to be removed. I think the majority of people on this chat would agree with that. People have a problem with how Israel is going about that, murdering civilians of any age, robbing Palestinians of their property & land and imprisoning people without charge or any means of release.

When you look at it, it's very difficult to distinguish between Israel authorities and Hamas, but you only have a problem with Hamas.

Hamas killed innocent teens and babies = Israel bombing cities burying innocent men, women, teens, children and babies.

Hamas kidnaps people = Israel imprisoning civilians without charge and without any process for release.

Hamas says it wants Israel wiped out = Israel actually does take Palestinian land and settles Israeli people on it.

If Israel didn't show such disregard for innocent people and at least made a tiny effort to target Hamas, not steal land and make life so difficult for civilians, this thread would have a very different narrative. The ball is in Israel's corner, it can continue to be a terrorist state or it can change tack.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123015922#Comment_123015922

You seem to have issues with news reports from credible publications. The link I posted is from The Times of Israel. They quote Haaretz because Haaretz, like the Times of Israel, it is a reputable publication.

The fact you don't like the reporting because it doesn't suit your narrative is neither here nor there. The fact is, Zaka were shown to be milking the situation make money. Haaretz carefully examined the evidence and made their report - which the Times of Israel were then happy to quote. You have repeatedly posted clearly debunked reports and when presented with real evidence, you call it "rubbish". If you refuse to accept the truth, then there's no point engaging with you.

As for your direct attacks on me in the rest of your post, that was uncivil, uncalled for, and does not deserve a response.

xhomelezz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123013249#Comment_123013249

That's a bit of statement and generalising there..

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123020493#Comment_123020493

Like their heroes they don't like the Press. Those reporters better mind themselves before Mossad comes looking for them.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123020493#Comment_123020493

The Times of Israel may quote the left wing Haaretz, or what one volunteer in the charity Zaka said, but that lends as much credibility to what someone in Haaretz or Zaka said as say the Irish Times quoting something someone in SF/IRA/An Phoblocht said about the "war" or "the Brits" here.

I would agree with the poster here who said the Oct '23 attack was " a deliberately reckless act by Hamas to attack Israeli citizens unprovoked then, knowing who their neighbours were. And for no clear military purpose. The government of the country itself is the only one that is duty bound to care for its citizens and if they choose to put their own citizens in danger - remember they refused to let Gazans shelter in the tunnels - then that’s their choice.

If South Korea were to murder and kidnap North Korean civilians, does anyone think the SK government would not be blamed for such a needlessly provocative act?"

Also remember that Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005 to let Hamas run its own affairs there. Israel continued to supply them with water and electricity etc, and let aid in. However Hamas used a significant percentage of the concrete sent to Gaza to build tunnels through which to attack Israel, Hamas fired many rockets in to Israel pre Oct 23 etc.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123012556#Comment_123012556

I've corrected that lie in other threads too. Yet he keeps repeating it over and over again.

I asked why he repeats it when he knows it's not true and he never responded.

It's got to the stage where I'd expect better answers from a bot. there are bots nowadays that can learn faster.

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123020493#Comment_123020493

You seem to have issues with news reports from credible publications.

The issue with the posts is that they are consistently cobbled together from extremely blinkered viewpoints, simplistic google searches that are biased due to the inability to understand the topic at any real depth.

Facts don't matter, "Whattaboutery" and making things up is the name of their game.

Edit: Right on cue. #38630

Sudden Valley

Iran kills 700 Israel kills 40k. The israelis do seem to be cruel to the no Jews st the moment.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123025553#Comment_123025553

How many of the claimed 40k were Hamas militants?

How many of the claimed 40k were killed by Hamas rockets before they left Gaza ( Hamas is reported to have fired 18,000 rockets at Israel, a substantial percentage of which explode before they leave Gaza ).

How many of the claimed 40k were killed by Hamas due in in-fighting, accused of being "informers", killed in crossfire since the Oct '23 Hamas attack etc?

How many of the claimed 40k were Palestinians not allowed to leave northern Gaza by Hamas, as Hamas wanted them as human shields there?

Remember Hamas refused to let innocent Gazans shelter in the extensive tunnel network Hamas made.

Answer the question: If South Korea were to murder 1200 North Koreans, and kidnap hundreds of North Korean civilians, and continually lob 18,000 missiles in to North Korea, and continually tunnel in to North Korea to attack, how do you think North Korea would act?"

Gerry T

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123025452#Comment_123025452

Can you stay as a Jew if you marry a non-Jew ?

Secondly the issue is with the Isralie state, not the Jewish people. Religion doesn't come into it, other than most people electing their govt in Israel are Jews.

Also note, while Israel continues to murder innocents, the people of Israel continue to elect these people. That's not the same in Palestine with Hamas. But I will concede, considering the amount of innocent people being murdered by Israel these days, a fair share of Palestinian people might actually vote for Hamas today.

Just think what could have been, if Israel had not funded Hamas but had instead worked against Hamas and supported the innocent people of Palestine (seen as the Israel people are so open minded as you like to point out) we might have had a peaceful region between Israel and Palestine.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123025635#Comment_123025635

Stiop with the defending mass murder.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123025653#Comment_123025653

As no faith other than Islam is permitted to be practiced openly, no churches, synagogues, temples, gurudwaras, shrines, kingdom halls, or other non-Muslim houses of worship are permitted in Saudi Arabia. In Israel, the amount of Mosques has increased to the extent there are ten times more now than there were 50 years ago there.

If you google it you will see in Islam, the permissibility for Muslims to engage in interfaith marriages is outlined by the Quran:  Muslim women cannot marry non-Muslim men.

it is permissible, albeit discouraged, for a Muslim man to marry Non-Muslim women as long as they are identified as being part of the "People of the Book".

The 700 people hung in Iran were probably " discouraged" for something or other.

When Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005 and funded Hamas to govern and run Gaza, it wanted to be peaceful neighbours with Gaza. It built a fence between itself and Gaza to protect Israeli citizens. It supplied Gaza with water and electricity etc. What did Gaza do : attack it.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123025635#Comment_123025635

why don't you tell us?

I'd say 40,000 civilian deaths would be low considering the percentage of Gaza that is unlivable at the moment. They're dropping 1000lb bombs on refugee camps. They're allowing up to 100 civilian deaths in some of their strikes. The level of destruction there is horrific./ I'd say there's many more buried beneath the rubble.

They shot dead three israelis, who were stripped to the waist, waving white fabric and shouting in Hebrew that they wanted to surrender and that they were hostages. What happened to the people who shot them? They were given counseling. Because the israeli rules of combat allow them to shoot people stripped to the waist and surrendering.

They block aid, they block food. They arrest and detain doctors. The destroy hospitals. The media in their own country has documented the war crimes they've committed.

And here we have people defending those actions.

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123025797#Comment_123025797

It supplied Gaza with water and electricity etc. 

The idiocy knows no bounds; If they won't accept a two state solution and are adamant Gaza etc. remain within their borders then they must provide utilities to those remaining within their borders i.e. citizens. The fact they hem them in to zones that they decided on (and continue to encroach on) continues to be ignored by you. But I'm sure more Iran/North Korea whattaboutery will suffice.

What did Gaza do : attack it.

Just to confirm your continued lack of understanding of the situation: 'Gaza' didn't attack anyone; Hamas did. Gaza is a governate of the Gaza Strip.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123025872#Comment_123025872

Estimates last year put the final death toll at about 190,000.

With the campaign Israel has waged since, I'd imagine that's well over 200,000.

Babies are dying in Gaza of hypothermia, Northern Gaza has zero functioning medical facilities and Israel's starvation tactics are in full swing. Settlers are already trying to occupy northern Gaza and given their reputation in the WB, they'll finish off the civilians that the IDF miss.

That all said, it seems unlikely that Israel will meet the Genocide threshold of the Holocaust that some have suggested - two thirds of the population I think. But given the campaign is ongoing, perhaps that's the overall goal of Israel.

Necro

Mod: Francis McM won't be responding to posts for a few days as they have been given a little holiday, so no need to quote them. Thanks.

dmcdona

A few new interesting news items.

Seems Australia doesn't want to be the next country to be accused of a "Pogrom"; The rape of Palestinian prisoners rumbles on - seems IDF soldiers assaulted Military Police who were trying to their job; IDF intelligence is, err, not so intelligent; Israel is a Democracy - Hmmm.

Haaretz:
Australia Forgoes Hosting Ice Hockey Tournament Over Israel's Participation: Organizers cited 'security concerns' as the reason behind the decision to drop the event, set for April in Melbourne. Police said the Australian Ice Hockey Federation had asked to gather information on potential pro-Palestinian protests in the area

Israel's Military Police to Probe Assaults of Officers by Soldiers During Sde Teiman Arrests: The investigation was launched after Haaretz reported that military police personnel said they were attacked by Israeli army soldiers when they came to arrest some of them over the soldiers' alleged sexual abuse of a Gazan detainee at the Sde Teiman detention center

Hamas Had Detailed Information on Gaza Border Communities on October 7 – IDF Intelligence Didn't Know

Israel's Attorney General Slams Bill to Alter Selection Process of Supreme Court President: A legal opinion submitted on behalf of Attorney General Baharav-Miara argues that doing altering the selection process seriously harms judicial independence.

Odhinn

The PA giving Israel what they paid for

"

Just before New Year, 21-year-old Shatha al-Sabbagh was out buying chocolate for her family's children from a shop in Jenin, in the occupied West Bank.

The "fearless" journalism student – who wanted to shed light on the suffering of the Palestinians – was with her mother, two young nephews and another relative.

"She was laughing and saying we'll be up all night tonight," her mother recalls.

Then she was shot in the head."

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cyv3rl9prp6o

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123030132#Comment_123030132

They don't like journalists or even budding journalists because they report what is happening and Truth must not get out.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123030132#Comment_123030132

The Israeli's must have run out of actual journalists to murder. Now they have to target the students.

BTW, a headshot is rarely an accident.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123030624#Comment_123030624

And there were 10 minutes of shooting reported so they were presumably determined.

dmcdona

News items of note:

Israel attacks aid convoy directly; IDF confirms ethnic cleansing is going swimmingly; UAE mooting that it might take admin role in Gaza; Hostage families confirm Israel has abandoned the hostages (again); An associate of War Criminal #1 calls for an end to the unnecessary war but then goes on to ask War Criminal #1 to carry out more war crimes; War in the West Bank is on the cards; American Historical Association condemns Israel's destruction of 80% of schools and 12 Universities in Gaza; Germany gets cold feet.

Harretz:

The UN World Food Program said that it "will continue to try and bring life-saving aid to populations facing extreme hunger and at risk of famine," a day after it reported that Israeli forces opened fire on its convoy in Gaza. The WFP urged "all parties to the conflict [to] uphold their obligations under international humanitarian law, specifically enabling the protection of the civilian population, and safe passage of humanitarian assistance."

The IDF said that its Kfir Brigade has concluded its operations in northern Gaza after 64 days. The statement added that the 162nd Division continues its activities in the area, stating that there is no intention to allow residents to return to their homes in northern Gaza

The UAE held talks with Israel and the U.S. regarding its potential participation in a temporary post-war administration in Gaza, until a reformed Palestinian government takes control in the area, Western sources and foreign diplomats told Reuters.

A group of 112 family members of hostages held in Gaza filed a petition with Israel's High Court of Justice, accusing the government of violating two Basic Laws by abandoning their loved ones. The petition claims that "the government has unlawfully abandoned the hostages for 459 days, violating their constitutional rights to life, bodily integrity, and human dignity," and seeks an interim order requiring the state to explain how refusing to agree to a hostage deal does not violate the hostages' "constitutional rights, and why the government should not be compelled to secure their release, including by agreeing to halt the war and withdraw from Gaza in exchange for their freedom."

Natan Eshel, a close associate of PM Netanyahu, called for an end to the "unnecessary war in Gaza," adding that Israel should block aid and food shipments instead. "It's a shameful waste of every additional soldier's life," Eshel wrote in a message on WhatsApp, adding that "the war isn't bringing hostages or security achievements, and in my opinion, it should stop immediately." Eshel called on decision-makers to adopt his plan after U.S. President-elect Donald Trump's inauguration.

Speaking at the funeral of two women residents of the Kedumim settlement killed by Palestinian assailants in a terror attack on Monday, the head of the settlement called on the IDF to "enter and conquer" Palestinian villages in the area, and urged a policy shift in the West Bank to what he described as a "war policy… Any place from which terror emanates deserves to be destroyed, just like any other front in a war, without the High Court or [Israeli human rights NGO] B'Tselem."

The largest U.S. professional organization for historians, the American Historical Association, adopted a resolution condemning what it called Israel's deliberate destruction of Gaza's education system and criticizing U.S. military aid to Israel. The resolution said that the IDF has destroyed 80 percent of Gaza's schools, leaving over 625,000 children without access to education, and has also destroyed all 12 university campuses in Gaza.

Germany has quietly cut funding to a prominent German aid organization, effectively halting its support of two left-leaning Israeli human rights groups under its sponsorship, the German news outlet Deutsche Welle reported. The decision, according to the report, is part of a larger pattern by the German government of defunding groups that are critical of Israel's government and its ongoing military campaign in Gaza.

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123031003#Comment_123031003

"But, but Alan Shatter says…"

SafeSurfer

Former Justice and Defence minister Alan Shatter has called for Ireland’s opposition to the alleged war crimes and ongoing genocide of Israel to be punished by the incoming Trump administration.

I don’t remember a prominent Irish politician and former minister, possibly with the exception of Conor Cruise O’ Brien, so overtly putting the interests of another country before Ireland’s in such a way.

Given his role as a former minister for both defence and justice, departments overseeing Ireland’s intelligence and security infrastructure. Can we be sure that Shatter, as minister has always put Ireland’s interests first, especially if those interests were in conflict with the interests of the state of Israel?

https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/trump-cant-ignore-irelands-hostility-to-israel/

Cluedo Monopoly

Honestly I think Alan is unhinged.

He refused to provide a breath test to a Garda when he was caught drunk driving while he was Minister for Justice. I lost all respect for him then.

lumphammer2

Alan Shatter is a traitor to Ireland …. anyone who can be okay with Netanyahu's satanism is 100% evil ….. Shatter knows where he can go if he does not like what Ireland's government are doing ….. he belongs in Netanyahuland and should stay there …. A total disgrace and I'm also sure it is petty and personal too ….. just because Fine Gael didn't pick him as a candidate over the last 10 years or so …. defo a man on the wrong side of history ….

America too should wake the …. up and realise they are being played for fools by Netanyahu … I doubt that will happen anytime soon no matter who ends up the president later this year/early in 2026 or even if they held new elections and Kamala Harris won …. I believe Trump will be president for a very short time until he oversteps the mark (as a convicted felon he is walking on thin ice and is only there until someone else wants him gone and that will lead to him being replaced due to the law which so far has been 100% ignored) ….. before Vance or whoever replaces him within 9-12 months ….

Acosta

Remember when Alan was justice minister and said members of the gardai were not cancelling penalty points and fines, when the dog on street knew it was going on in every corner of the country. He's a tool. Probably not taking his hammering in the election too well

NIMAN

He's part of the brainwashed cult at this stage, can see no wrong in what Israel is doing, despite most of the world calling it out for what it is, genocide and ethnic cleansing.

2smiggy

could alan not go over and murder a few women and children, you know, to get it out of his system ? loads of like minded ghouls there

Jim Herring

Another of these threads? 🤔

buried

How many pensions are we paying for this treacherous snake while he hates us so?