Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

StringerBell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226323#Comment_121226323

Biden stumbled over the word saw though and seemed to correct to "had it confirmed" if he had it confirmed by the Bibi's spokesman, which I assume is the source for all media outlets when you get right to it then it carries the same weight as it did originally. I'm sorry that bothers you.

I would have no doubt that during the frenzy of violence some scumbags could indeed behead children. I do have doubts about the veracity of the reporting due to the source.

To at least not allow yourself to pause and consider it as a possibility given the clear incentive for the Israeli government and in particular that ego maniac who has been humiliated by the weekends events would be even more foolish than saying for definite that there is no way any Hamas agent beheaded a child.

grumpyperson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226299#Comment_121226299

https://theintercept.com/2023/10/11/israel-hamas-disinformation/

fyi

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226358#Comment_121226358

You seemed to want to know about whether it happened or not.

It seemed reasonable to expect your concern at such horrific actions to manifest in condemnation of them. But apparently that is too much to expect you to take a position though you were so quick to form judgements about other deaths.

But "who knows" why you were asking the questions.

Sadly the horrific reports have been confirmed now by President Biden based on documented evidence.

Perhaps you should reread the Hamas statement you linked in light of that confirmation to assess its veracity. You might gain some insight.

If Hamas denied it... and pretty much all the things Hamas denied about the atrocities were in fact true.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226311#Comment_121226311

I’m still here.

Still no evidence.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226381#Comment_121226381

For the second actually no the Third time today.....

FYI -

President Joe Biden

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1712224037819105500?s=20

TedBundysDriver

@Gatling Can you answer my question. Can you back up your accusation against me, yes or no. It's very simple really..

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226015#Comment_121226015

It is the timing of it that indicates support for terrorism.

Long Sean Silver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121225527#Comment_121225527

more Israeli war crimes. and they wonder why people view them as a Fascist state ...

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226389#Comment_121226389

The evidence is all over the thread and internet at this stage.

Just google Biden and Hamas if you wont engage with the posts here.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226053#Comment_121226053

Nope, I am talking about the people who put up flags or tweets or suchlike after the Hamas operation and before the Israeli reprisal. People who did clearly have zero empathy, celebrating and dog-whistling acts of terrorism.

TedBundysDriver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226404#Comment_121226404

What about people waving Israeli flags, they are killing men, women and children in their hundreds right now. Is that bad timing?

JP Liz V1

Irish-Israeli woman Kim Damti - who had been unaccounted for following a Hamas attack at a music festival in Israel last weekend - has died, her family have confirmed

RIP

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226390#Comment_121226390

Actually no ,it's not the state symbol it's the military trident,. before that it was a skull,and before that it was a punisher . before that it was something else.

And it wasn't changed during a Hamas Terrorist attack

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226413#Comment_121226413

Biden??!!

Right so, just like the weapons of mass destruction nonsense we were all led to believe.

I will wait for a better source.

But thanks anyway.

wandererz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226380#Comment_121226380

Listen again.

"I never really thought I would see, have confirmed pictures of terrorists.."

thegame983

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0Pw_TxBe7w

Well I laughed anyway.

Hummingbird Project

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226212#Comment_121226212

There are many similarities and many differences between the two situations. To draw a comparison between the tactics of Putin and Netanyahu are on the face of them almost identical situations. However, with Russia and Ukraine, it’s a long drawn out war. With Gaza and Israel it will be a couple of days maybe couple of weeks max. Restricting supplies for two weeks is nothing like switching off heat in icy winter for Ukraine where mass freezing to death is likely.

Gaza needs to be evacuated to prevent humanitarian crisis. Not so with Russia. Because of the proximity of Gaza and the enclosed nature of it, a restriction of essentials clears the space and prevents the civilians getting bombed by getting them out. You might say the same applies with Ukraine. But it doesn’t because it is a much larger land mass.

Civilians are much less likely to be hit because the combatants are in the open on the front lines. The combatants don’t endanger their civilians. So you don’t need to clear them of the land by starving them out in Ukraine. Any attempt to starve them out there is, and this is the key difference, an attempt to kill civilians not get them out of the target area.

Finally, let’s look at the leaders. Putin is holding down his population in bondage due to false elections and mass propoganda. Netanyahu as bad as he is isn’t near using nukes or threatening to use them. He doesn’t kill his political opponents and operates in a democracy. Democracies are less likely to go to war than autocracies. Israel is threatened regularly and in that sense is fighting for survival. Russia is making a land grab with little chance of it being made extinct.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226428#Comment_121226428

Stay out of it, it's a difficult situation - the elders have the right idea.

Like **** I'd be crazy enough to post anything associated with the crisis in my name on social media. More than likely I've colleagues aligned with either side. It's way to sensitive.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226422#Comment_121226422

You asked for evidence. It was given but nope any excuse to avoid engaging with it.

StringerBell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226426#Comment_121226426

Yes we hear the same thing, the stumble over the word "see", and then the "have confirmed".

Why would he say both?

Have you ever seen had confirmed things?

Or have you either

A. Seen or

B. Had confirmed

Generally speaking they don't go together. He also says they are photos of terrorists beheading babies, so if taken at face value are we to believe the terrorists were losing for photos while in the act?

Again, I'm not even saying it didn't happen. I'm not saying children or babies were not butchered or decapitated. It's also happening tonight, it happens. No argument about that, and it is horrific whatever the circumstances. If the likes of the UN were to be making this claim though it would hold a lot more water.

grumpyperson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226392#Comment_121226392

In previous news, the Kuwait babies

https://www.democracynow.org/2018/12/5/how_false_testimony_and_a_massive

who knows what they showed Biden, an itchy and scratchy cartoon maybe?

Beefcake82

Israel should allow and be supporting for an escape corridor to enable innocent Palestinians to leave the Gaza strip, however all Hamas should be terminated on sight, no prisoners, no jail, just terminated.

nullzero

There's no sides to take here.

Israel's treatment of Palestinians has been a disgrace for generations.

Hamas massacring innocent people doesn't do anything to help the plight of their already embattled people.

We've heard pro Israeli commentators in the media talking about how Israel needs to take revenge and almost all pro Palestinian commentators have gone to great lengths to not condemn the actions of Hamas.

Why anyone would want to align themselves with either side of this mess is beyond me.

The only position to take is to call for peace and reconciliation, particularly from people like us who are thousands of miles away cheerleading the deaths of actual human beings.

This isn't a football match or prize fight, real people are dying and the response of far too many people is to pick a side and cheer them on.

Anyone engaged in such behaviour, be it on this platform or all the way up to our political classes should be absolutely fvcking ashamed of themselves.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226448#Comment_121226448

I haven’t seen the evidence.

Quote this post and link the evidence please.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226454#Comment_121226454

Why are you trying to down play this ....

Beasty

Augme threadbanned

grumpyperson

Some interesting tweets appearing e.g.

https://twitter.com/EbneHava/status/1712154649036292100

Another

https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1711774401463550026

If you think the Israeli IDF are beacons of of justice...

https://twitter.com/RealAlexRubi/status/1712232630354157763

Hummingbird Project

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121225517#Comment_121225517

This tweet from Von Der Leyen is in no comparable to the war in Gaza. War in Ukraine and the cutting off supplies food, water and gas there totally different and much more sinister than Netanyahu trying to clear Gaza to prevent humanitarian disaster. One (Gaza/Netanyahu) is designed to prevent humanitarian disaster, the other situation (Ukraine/Putin) is done specifically to target civilians and cause humanitarian disaster.

Augme

*Posted this before I saw the threadbanned*

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226483#Comment_121226483

According to propaganda accounts .

pjohnson

Its amazing how according to the hysterics the Israeli's ONLY kill innocent women and children. A 100% rate like that is incredibly unlikely.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226466#Comment_121226466

In what circumstances are you ever going to see the evidence for yourself?

Given the nature of the atrocities?

Well?

Unless you want to look for it yourself in the dregs of the internet.

It will always be mediated through another party. It has been confirmed by President Biden based on confirned evidence. That is evidence in itself. Such a claim would not be made lightly.

If you wont accept that that is on you but as far as Im concerned Bidens confirmation makes it a statement of fact and anyone who says otherwise is an atrocity denier at this point.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226486#Comment_121226486

Quoting other propaganda accounts.

grumpyperson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226470#Comment_121226470

There appears to be no evidence of the baby killing attrocity. It appears to be an effort to manufacture consent to starve over 2 million people to death that Netyapu calls Human Animals.

The Israeli terrorist organisation IDF have been murdering and plundering Palestinian's for a long time. I've no idea why you're pushing the USA narrative. Even Varadkar has pushed back against the proposed destruction of the Gaza power plant.

Goodnight.

StringerBell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226487#Comment_121226487

Who is saying that?

Would be pretty incredible to think they never take down one legitimate target surely. All the money they get/spend on defence, their intelligence agencies have taken a bruising after the weekend but surely they can still identify a legitimate combat target now and then!

Hummingbird Project

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121225985#Comment_121225985

Hamas started this. They started a horrible chain of events. It is an escalation of the status quo realities as bad as they may be. Hamas are fighting an unwinnable war. When you look at the various ways of resolving this or winning the war from their perspective it is unwinnable.

Therefore the only way of fighting is for the complete annihilation of the planet. No outcome results in them winning their land back. That’s not stubbornness by the west, it’s a calculation based on the militaries in this and the various regional and global escalation points if it escalates beyond regional conflict.

So the outcome is not possible for Hamas and you therefore have to call them madmen. At what point do you not value your own life over your belief in a piece of land or trying to prove yourself right beyond death and say I am going to take my family and make a better life for myself elsewhere.

Take your family and get out. The stubbornness of belief in history and nationalism is a form of mental sickness and we see it all too often and everywhere nowadays all over the world. Get out, make a life for yourself, never forget your loved ones but make the world a better place not a horrible warlike place.

Israel is going nowhere and never will do the war is not winnable for Hamas and Hezbollah. Israel will give them hope of starting another generation but if they don’t learn the lessons and start another war in another generation the same will happen again. Calling score on war crimes and oneupsmanship is futile in this situation.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226490#Comment_121226490

Well actual evidence from credible sources might help.

Not the USA where weapons of mass destruction in IRAQ proved to be a lie.

And thats it, just the truth and facts is what we need.

Long Sean Silver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226497#Comment_121226497

the weaponizing of imagined/concocted "atrocities" in order to demonize your enemy is an age old tactic. it makes it much easier to slaughter them once you've demonized them.

the Jews of all people ought to understand this.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226503#Comment_121226503

Again - you wont ever see the actual evidence.

President Biden is a credible source. You are referring to something that happened 20 years ago under a different administration.

At this stage there is zero reason to doubt Bidens bona fides in this matter.

As far as Im concerned and I think the wider world in general is concerned this has been confirmed as fact.

SEPT 23 1989

RIP Kim

her mother grieves her dead baby tonight

amandstu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226501#Comment_121226501

Hamas has 2 million hostages and an ideology that says they will get eternal life if they die in battle.

I don't see how they can be defeated.

Even if you were to take out each one they have indoctrinated some million children ,some of whom will carry on their fight.

I saw that the population of Gaza went up from 340,000 in 1970 to 2,000,000 now.(correct?)

Is that some kind of a policy or just a by product of social norms and living conditions?

I seem to remember Hamas (or was it the PLO ?) had a policy of using children/babies as "suicide" bombs a good few years ago.Just coincidence?

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226490#Comment_121226490

A US President saying something makes it a fact as far as you are concerned!

Good to know.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226510#Comment_121226510

The atrocities have been confirmed as fact. More with every passing day.

The assault on the festival was an atrocity and it spread from there to whole families.

The Jews know? You mean the ones on the receiving end of the atrocitie

The dead know.

Hummingbird Project

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226518#Comment_121226518

They can’t win. That’s different from not being defeated. They won’t be defeated because Israel follows humanitarian law and will allow them to resettle and regrow.

Donald Trump

CNN interviewed a US Palestinian lady. You can hear the rockets exploding in the background constantly. She is so used to it that she doesn't even flinch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iqjqm7pBIIE

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226521#Comment_121226521

Vs you say you saying something ???

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121223497#Comment_121223497

I saw a very good outline on youtube today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAs5EOBUDcs

It gave me a new insight into an ex Tory MP and Campbell. They can seem to communicate normally and deliver information when they wish.

I will admit to a degree of bias in favour of the Palestinians. I would not feel good being kept kettled in to a small area, in particular by having my home and land removed by a group adhering to a religion I would have little regard for.

If you have no freedom, no justice and no hope for the future, I can understand people turning to desperate measures.

Danzy

What will make Gaza so difficult to control is the religious fanaticism so entrenched there.

1500 dead jihadis in Israeli maybe as many again returned alive to Gaza and how many were providing unit support.

Thousands, all in. All presuming/hoping they would kill and die fighting and the big thing, Not one careless Whisper or text or blabbing.

That's discipline, that's the power of the fanatical theology.

Egypt needs to be told in no uncertain terms that the massive aid it receives is contingent on it opening a corridor and resettling the population of Gaza.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226521#Comment_121226521

Earlier you were trying to discredit the eye witness testimony from the attacks confirming rape among other other atrocities.

Now it is glib remarks about the US President confirming the reports of atrocities with babies. Such confirmation would not be stated lightly.

What will your next denial be?

Why is it only the reports of Hamas atrocities you "just ask questions" about?

Any excuse to avoid accepting that Hanmas carried out those atrocities and condemning the atrocities.

They raped. They slaughtered. They mutilated. Deliberately. Civilians. Children. Babies. That is Hamas. That is how they fight.

That Hamas carried out multiple atrocities both in scale and victims is beyond doubt.

And your posts try to gloss over that and seem more concerned about these glib remarks and questions.

Not seeing the woods for the trees.

Good for other posters to know that I think.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226544#Comment_121226544

Why should Egypt be complicit in Israel's ethnic cleansing and land seizure?

When Russia invaded Ukraine, there weren't that many loud calls for Eastern European countries to just make permanent room for the affected Ukrainians so that Russia could just have what it wanted.