Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

mazdamiatamx5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230412#Comment_121230412

Yep, spot on

thegame983

I wonder if the Israelis considered singing 'Don't look back in anger' as an alternative method to dealing with Hamas.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230635#Comment_121230635

Really getting desperate now.

ittakestwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230580#Comment_121230580

Great so you're putting Israel and Hamas in the same category. So do I.

The US will never unrecognise Israel as a state but Europe should for the way it acts. No trading with isreal. Dont recognise its citizenship and ask its citzens to ho home. Basically dont allow it operate as it doesn't allow palestinian to.

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230604#Comment_121230604

The “how” is simple enough, Sea Wolf demonstrated an ability to hit shells in flight over 40 years ago.

The reason nobody is really using it is that the use case is pretty unique to Israel. A relatively small geographical area which can be covered under the iron dome umbrella, but bigger than point targets like bases which the US has used C-RAM to defend. (Think radar guided Gatling gun). Plus it’s expensive, and not many countries feel the need to spend that amount of money on such a system.

Lirange

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230592#Comment_121230592

This is a bizarre claim. Fabricated? What does that even mean? The Arrow 3, developed with the US, is the keystone of the Iron Dome. Germany has just signed a pricey deal to make it the cornerstone of of Central/Northern European defence. It’s regarded by many global experts in the field to be highly effective. But you know better?

https://youtu.be/s2HeRYuqLM4?si=k4PJMv2YpJJdJneH

https://youtu.be/bwBc-h-bAgM?si=M6cr8PU8AmtHjsCo

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230302#Comment_121230302

As a blanket statement, the HRW tweet is incorrect. The “special” treatment of WP in international law is that it, like all incendiaries, is banned from aerial delivery over concentrations of civilians. (Think Dresden or Tokyo for inspiration for that requirement). When delivered from any other system, it generally falls within the same principles of use within a city which any munition would fall under (i.e. there needs to be a military target and reasonable efforts must be taken that it’s the best tool for the job in relation to risk to civilians).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230653#Comment_121230653

That’s in no way remotely what I said.

But, good luck with that plan, let me know how you get on on with asking the Germans to delegitimise the state of Israel for starters. It’s a non-runner for what are pretty obvious reasons.

Its time for either a two or three state solution. I don’t think Israelis and Palestinians can realistically share the Holy Sites in the immediate future.

But the first step towards any kind of peace is the end of this bullshit “From the River to the Sea”, whether that be Hamas or the gobshites on the left of the European politician spectrum.

RoyalCelt

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1712679248543047969?t=4GT8Tci_6GG7ZGITjC5VdA&s=19

Hamas leaders chilling in Qatar telling families not to evacuate an area getting levelled by bombs. Any sane parent would get their children as far away from northern Gaza as possible.

facehugger99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230635#Comment_121230635

Careful you don’t put your back out moving the goalposts.

Hamas must be delighted having lads like yourself going to bat for them 24/7.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230646#Comment_121230646

It's literally been the core argument for justifying Israel's actions throughout aa significant portion of this thread.

Billy Mays

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230657#Comment_121230657

That lad is a silly conspiracy theorist who believes the whole space travel programme is fabricated and satellites don't actually exist

Best ignored

TedBundysDriver

Evil tactics from Israel. Western governments especially the EU are absolutely useless standing shoulder to shoulder with IDF terrorists on this massacre.

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230265#Comment_121230265

Probably trying to figure out how to pay for Ukraine now the anglo saxons have shot off on a new adventure. Never a god idea to follow those two into a conflict, it always ends in tears.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230702#Comment_121230702

You talk about moving goalposts then launch an ad hominem!

Which of those things have the IDF not done?

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230762#Comment_121230762

Going by the existing IDF kill rate of 40 Palestinians per Israeli killed we're going to a Cromwellian style effusion of civilian blood and Israel will still have the US as it's protector.

It was the US that supported the creation of Israel without consulting everyone else living there.

facehugger99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230762#Comment_121230762

There's big difference between Hamas and the IDF - unfortunately there's a lot of people so blinded by anti-Semitism they will seek to paint a false equivalence.

When terrorist organizations use civilian populations as human shields then innocents will die - that is the reality of war.

Perhaps the Palestinians in Gaza should reconsider voting in a bunch of Islamist fundamentalists terrorists dedicated to wiping out every Jew from the face of the Earth? - just a thought.

They'd quite happily slit your throat too BTW.

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230724#Comment_121230724

And there it is. The warning the IDF and its supporters will hide behind when it is asked about the death of citizens.

Despite the United Nations saying such a movement of people is "impossible without devastating humanitarian consequences".

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230788#Comment_121230788

So a major distinction between Hamas and the IDF is Israel doesn’t use people as human shields? Wrong! Just one of many examples

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-palestinian-israel-children-idUSBRE95J0FR20130620

Can you show which of the things I have listed that the IDF don’t do?

SafeSurfer

By the way, who helped establish Hamas?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123275572295011847

yagan

Since its inception the greatest continuous failure of the UN is in not tackling US backed Israeli violence against Palestinians. There was no UN sanction either against the US/UK for their invasion of Iraq without a mandate.

Israel don't view anything they do to Palestinians as breaking international law because they already view Palestinians as a stateless people.

Multipass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230607#Comment_121230607

So Hamas is not the Palestinians, hmm.

TedBundysDriver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230838#Comment_121230838

The UN are completely useless.

They stand back as Israel commit genocide right before our eyes.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230838#Comment_121230838

There have been numerous UN resolutions drawn against Israel. The problem is the US just veto's them every time. The US wants Israel to be the way it is.

TinyMuffin

Other countries in the Middle East will step up and take in displaced people like Ireland with Ukrainians.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230866#Comment_121230866

The Arab states are incredibly weak on this as well. Lip service is paid and the Palestinian issue is used as a vent for domestic discontent.

TedBundysDriver

Reports now that IDF terrorists are targeting ambulances as they evacuate injured civilians from scenes of Israeli atrocities..

facehugger99

Hopefully the IDF can wipe out as many Hamas fighters as possible while minimizing civilian casualties in the upcoming ground offensive.

I wish them the best of luck - it must be a terrifying prospect for a young Israeli solider and one can only admire their bravery.

realdanbreen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230521#Comment_121230521

I have absolutely no issue with yourself and your ancestors opinion of Breen and men like him. Iam fully aware that there are descendents of the black and tans and other British forces living in our country. Its telling that you turn my opinion of Britain sending warships into the region into an anti Palestinian rant.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230896#Comment_121230896

Don’t forget the brave pilots dropping bombs on civilians and the brave artillery gunners shelling houses from 5 miles away.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230872#Comment_121230872

Just shows how the US is ultimately responsible for the eradication of the Palestinian homeland.

Jews were also Palestinian before the US creation of a religious state. It really is a colonial mindset that establishes, arms and supports a religious state without respect to every other tradition present. Geopolitical Disneyland.

realdanbreen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230539#Comment_121230539

Really? I thought pretty much all of the sane posters want an immediate end to the bombardment of Gaza. As for those who carried out the atrocities last weekend, they need to be brought to justice, the illegal Israeli settlements on Palestinian land need to be removed and rocket attacks need to cease. However there is no sign of any of this happening in the near future.

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230790#Comment_121230790

It’s horrific.

It’s also an impossible situation for Israel and the innocent people in Gaza.

For some here though it’s a war crime to bomb in civilian areas etc but also to warn civilians to leave the built up North. Can’t really have it both ways.

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230932#Comment_121230932

A warning that cannot be heeded doesn't absolve blame from the IDF. It has to based in some realism.

Hey boy

IMG_9509.png

I assume Israel wants/needs to get to these tunnels in the North and has therefore asked the civilians under whose areas these exist to leave. Have they realistically any other option in Hamas hide out there?

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230922#Comment_121230922

Well, I wouldn't call them ultimately responsible, but they certainly have a major part to play. The thing is America has had a specific interest in the middle east since the latter half of the 20th Century and we all know the resource that they covet over there. So they are eager to maintain a hard man in the area and that hard man is Israel, which they fund and flood with weaponry.

If millions of Palestinians have to suffer under appalling abuses for that status quo to be maintained, the US isn't going to lose any sleep over it.

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230951#Comment_121230951

Surely a realistic option is to go in on foot and not shoot at civilians? I've no problem with the IDF eliminating Hamas.

Hamas have reacted to the evacuation order telling civilians to ignore it and remain where they are, that it is "fake".

As usual, Hamas want to inflict maximum Palestinian deaths for headlines and to leverage political pressure from the rest of the world against Israel.

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230961#Comment_121230961

Bearing that in mind, Israel could act differently?

nonyabidness23

I find it sickening that people are condoning Israel's revenge strikes as a "Right to defend itself" as soon as you're killing children and innocent civilians on a mass scale your just as a bad as Hamas, it cant be justified and they know well they are doing it.

They dropped an apartment block knowing full well they were more than likely going to kill children.

If i was an Israeli knowing innocent children were dying horrific deaths in order to exact revenge in my name i would'nt feel better or safer for it, seeing 2 and 3 year old s being dragged lifelessly out of rubble is a heartbreaking thing to witness and its never justified, no civilized sane person would condone it either.

Monsters in positions of power in both sides creating a situation that the innocents on both sides are paying for they need to get that head the wall Israeli PM out of power as much as hamas needs removing.

What a mess of a situation real time genocide by the looks of it as Israel will now butcher with the praise of the international community at its back.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230875#Comment_121230875

The EU gave temporary protection to Ukrainian refugees while the Western world poured billions of arms into Ukraine so that the remaining could defend themselves. So the full analogy would include the Western world pouring billions of arms into the Palestinians.

Are you actually calling for that?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230964#Comment_121230964

So Hamas get to dictate Israeli military response?

Of course not.

facehugger99

This thread is like playing student-politics bingo with a bunch self-hating lefties.

For anyone else trying to keep score, award yourself a point if anyone condemns the Israelis, the US or the Brits.

Additional points are awarded for blaming Hamas butchery on the IDF.

The irony that Israel, America and the UK are liberal democracies where people are safe to spout their nonsense while they wouldn't last 5 minutes in Hamas-controlled Gaza is not lost on many I'm sure.

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230972#Comment_121230972

I didn't say that. What I am saying is that if Israel see that citizens haven't left that area (and why should they? It's their home) that they would adjust their response. Israel have control of the trigger. What they do with it determines the headlines

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230961#Comment_121230961

You know they've nowhere to go anyway. At least be honest. The calls to evacuate are purely for optics.

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230960#Comment_121230960

Too risky I presume. How could they return fire to Hamas if in people’s apartments etc.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230585#Comment_121230585

No. It was covered in the post you responded to. As I pointed out in that post you are responding to, firing in indiscriminate rockets like that are murder. The reason is that the people firing them know that it is virtually certain that they will kill people. You do not have to identify specific targets in order to constitute murder.

Is Israel doing similar you ask? Yes. Unless you have some mad idea in your head that they have special rockets and missiles that know how to blow up people and collapse buildings in such a manner that certain age groups don't get killed.

BTW, technically, intent is not exactly what you appear to be describing, but that is for another forum if you wish.

nonyabidness23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230972#Comment_121230972

No country should come to a conclusion that bombing innocent civilians to kill terrorists as acceptable, especially ones in a position of strength like Israel.

And i would hold a professional army like Israel to a far higher standard than that of a terrorist group.

They have killed 1600 and wounded over 7000, they are no better than Hamas.

They have committed the same crime with the same results only with different beliefs behind why.

McFly85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230972#Comment_121230972

Not so much Hamas dictating Israeli response but Israel recognising that there’s will be high civilian casualties with their approach.

Hamas are terrible wanting to use normal Palestinians for their own goals but it’s not as simple as Palestinians not listening to Hamas and leaving.

Roads have been destroyed through bombing, there is no fuel available for transport out, and many have a fear of permanent displacement if they do leave.

The Palestinians are in a horrific situation on all sides and Israel are in the position to choose how to proceed. But how they have acted so far shows that they have as little regard for Palestinian life as Hamas have for Israelis.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230978#Comment_121230978

The UK was a democracy when millions starved in Ireland.

The US was a democracy when the natives were sent to another version of Gaza.

In ancient Greece only Greeks could vote, not their slaves.