Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121731185#Comment_121731185

So International Law is irrelevant when its inconvenient to you?

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121731274#Comment_121731274

Are you happy with 12,000 murdered kids being justification for what happened on Oct 07?

Isreal could stop this now.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121731275#Comment_121731275

Totally agree - reports of IDF rapists are still secret, many decades later.

But at least now, when the words "the most moral army in the World" are uttered, the worldwide reaction will be "meh"

The monthly report deadline draws nearer so there is that too and there will be political games played so Israel can shine that particular tu*d.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121731323#Comment_121731323

So you agree if any IDF solider or commander is found to have contravened it, then they should be kicked out of the IDF and Jailed?

TinyMuffin

detestable fookers

https://x.com/CensoredMen/status/1754824689707323551?s=20

iamstop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121705175#Comment_121705175

This is insane. It seems most of the Oct 7th carnage was caused by Israel.

https://youtu.be/-yxEMYRoYBc?si=3gT9JXjKdCHQWhM6

Not sure if it could be described as a false flag but it was used as propaganda to try to sway the public opinion of the west. Well it's all falling apart now but none of the major news networks seems to be reporting on it. Only a few independent ones.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121731323#Comment_121731323

They went against their own charter on establishing the state of Israel in the way they did. Same year they brought in the declaration on human rights which has been laughed since.

Their decision was not based on their own rules, but rather that heavy and unrelenting coercion of the likes of the United states strong arming numerous countries who opposed it.

If it walks like a duck and all that.

I could have simply replied, pots and kettles too

pjohnson

The killing sheep was pure stupid and unnecessary.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121730616#Comment_121730616

They're not the same war. not one bit the same. Russia for all it's many, many, many flaws and faults, is not wrong in stating that Israel is bang out of order. Just because they're right about that, doesnt make them any better though.

And again, what's with the dumbing down to left and right. Both the fars of any extreme would probably like to see most of the Middle East and Israel become a footnote in history. For most it's just a bragging competition and a chance to outdo each other

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121730816#Comment_121730816

Thats some tinfoil hat madness. I don't know how many times this has to be stated but, disapproval of Israels behaviour and support of the Palestinians is not support for Hamas nor is it anti-semetic.

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121731308#Comment_121731308

I didn’t say you did W.

Israel’s response certainly appears very disproportionate from where we are all sitting but other realistic options have been slow in coming from the critics or elsewhere and therein lies the dilemma.

I hate it but it but this war kicked off on 07.10.

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121731312#Comment_121731312

Hmmm.

Hamas and their supporters - “we love death more than they love life”. Hard to negotiate with such types especially given their own lack of regard for ordinary Gazans.

Innocent people caught in the middle. All who want to leave should be able to.

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121731532#Comment_121731532

These are clear patterns that I see, yes the Left is joined by centrists and sane people on the Right in condemning Russia's invasion of Ukraine, but the Far Right is definitely in Putler's pocket while many of them claim to support Israel. Bonkers stuff.

But opposition to Israel typically comes from either Islamists or the Western Left, many of those Leftists who are supposedly with Ukraine.

And yes, this is definitely part of a broader conflict. Unless you seriously expect us to consider it a co-incidence that Hamas and Russia both have the same benefactor (Iran) and that there have been a number of meetings between Hamas and the Russian government, and that the 7th of October just happens to be Putler's birthday.

You don't need to be particularly observant to see all the ways that these supposedly unrelated conflicts are actually one in the same, and that Russia, Iran and Hamas are on one side of it with Israel and Ukraine being on the other. It's just bizarre that some people will side with both sides of the conflict (e.g. Israel and Russia for the Far Right, but for Ukraine but against Israel on the Left).

I don't understand how anyone can be so incoherent and self-contradictory 🤔 it makes no sense.

dmcdona

@Hey boy

I was surprised at the polling data that ~50% did not want the war to end if it meant peace with the Palestinians. It seems at odds with the narrative that Israel is surrounded by those that would kill them.

Agreed about Hamas and they would of course be delighted with the death toll - massive propaganda for them and fertile recruiting material. But Israel has made its choice about that.

Hamas must go. Easier said than done of course. Any captured must face justice.

Said it before - innocents on both sides are paying and will continue to pay be that Palestinian children orphaned or hostage families not knowing if their loved ones are alive or not.

dmcdona

Banksy - Gaza:

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121731079#Comment_121731079

That's all b***sh1t. Its just trying to prevent the ICJ from investigating them for their war crimes which seemingly are mounting very fast.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121731185#Comment_121731185

It was the Israeli way of saying '' to Hell or to Connaught''.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121731401#Comment_121731401

That just goes to show the kind of army they are, worse than the Nazis and the Black & Tans. Utterly disgusting. There must have been no children or nuns around for them to snipe.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121731475#Comment_121731475

Seems to have angered you more than the children being murdered. Are you an animal lover?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121731413#Comment_121731413

It has been mentioned on here for months. There were just under 700 civilians killed on Oct 7th. Hamas obviously killed a load of them. Some were killed by IDF and other Israelis as a result of the confusion and chaos and panic, and other bodies were retrieved from vehicles which were struck, while being taken back to Gaza as hostages, under the Hannibal directive

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121731475#Comment_121731475

Why am I not surprise that you'd display more empathy for 3 sheep killed than tens of thousands of Palestinians?

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121731935#Comment_121731935

Yes - a distinct change of tone today - the UNWRA announcement was a dead giveaway and complete about turn.

I think they think if they do nothing, ICJ will give them a hard time. So they need to save face.

With all the video coming out - even without journalists and with attempts to silence Comms infrastructure - the evidence appears incontrovertible. But if they make sure no more cans of worms are opened in the next few weeks, maybe their monthly report won't be as bad a wreck as it appears it will be.

I'd imagine the Israeli ad hoc judge is mortified.

No reported news from the ICC - that will be next.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121730810#Comment_121730810

That is your opinion.

Sadly option does not replace hard cold facts of the matter.

The UN partitioned British Palestine between Arabs and Jews, under Resolution 181(II)

The moment the British Mandate ended and Israel was declared a state, a slew of Arab states with a long history of anti-Semitism invaded Israel.

These are the facts of the matter.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121730916#Comment_121730916

No, they were each phases of the same war. 

Which war was this?

You are being deliberately obtuse imo.

There was a civil war between Arabs and Jews in British Palestine, for sure, but the wider conflict between Israel and Arab states was a separate thing.

It's like saying WWII didn't start when Germany invaded Poland, September 1939, but started when the Germans took over the Sudetenland in October 1938

But to say, Arabs started to war, is so childishly stupid,

Because it's true as documented in history by many historians.

From Britannica.

https://www.britannica.com/event/Arab-Israeli-wars

On the eve of the British forces’ May 15, 1948, withdrawal, Israel declared independence. The fighting intensified immediately: Egypt launched an aerial assault on Tel Aviv and, the next day, Arab forces from Egypt, Transjordan (Jordan), Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon occupied the areas in southern and eastern Palestine not apportioned to the Jews by the UN partition of Palestine and then captured East Jerusalem, including the small Jewish quarter of the Old City

The US State Dept. Office of the Historian.

https://history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/arab-israeli-war

The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 broke out when five Arab nations invaded territory in the former Palestinian mandate immediately following the announcement of the independence of the state of Israel on May 14, 1948.

Even Pro-Palestine AJ conceeds this point.

https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2017/5/23/the-nakba-did-not-start-or-end-in-1948

As units of the Egyptian, Lebanese, Syrian, Jordanian and Iraqi armies invaded on May 15, the Arab-Israeli war was launched and stretched until March 1949.

Cambridge University Press. Avi Shlaim

https://users.ox.ac.uk/~ssfc0005/Israel%20and%20the%20Arab%20Coalition%20in%2019481.html

The five Arab states who joined in the invasion of Palestine were Egypt, Transjordan, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq; while the two contingents came from Saudi Arabia and Yemen. 

I do agree it's complex, but some things are just true.

The Arab states invaded Israel in 1948 because they would never accept a Jewish state on their border. That is an inalienable truth.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121731267#Comment_121731267

Jackson Hinkle?

Do you even know who that muppet is?

A far-right influencer and conspiracy theorist with very dodgy Russian Connections

He is also banned from multiple platforms because of his history of disinformation and misinformation.

Why one would want to use him as a source?

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121731413#Comment_121731413

Well it's all falling apart now but none of the major news networks seems to be reporting on it

Maybe because it takes one truth, that there may have been some friendly fire and runs into the burning inferno of a conspiracy theory.\

Any dickhead with a camera and microphone is now a 'journalist' and they usually push their own agenda to people who want to believe some conspiracy theory or some such.

It seems most of the Oct 7th carnage was caused by Israel.

Grade A nonsense in fairness.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, said Carl Sagan once.

I guess the Israeli hostages were a false flag too.

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121731335#Comment_121731335

No.

But threat would remain and hostages would still be kidnapped. Therein lies the difficulty for Israel.

Hamas on the other hand could put their citizens first for once.

Again, where is the pressure on Hamas?

Weepsie

Go seek out as Stanford journal of international law, people who know better than you or I, and have dived fully into the complexities of it all.

"Although the passage of the resolution was procedurally valid, 

its terms were substantively illegal under the U.N Charter for being in violation of 

the prevailing law and practice on self-determination of peoples in class A mandated 

territories."

It's from 2021. Not an historian mind, a professor of law.

The AHC boycotted the UNSCOP talks, only occasionally engaging and when there was some willingness due to the efforts of Cuba and Yugoslavia to get them in to talk were rebuked.

The UN also refused to listen to Britain, who said they wouldn't agree to anything that wouldnt have full support by both Jewish and Palestinian side. The UN basically told them to go **** themselves, we're doing what we want.

So yes, I'd say international law was very heavily ignored.

nacho libre

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/06/optimism-fades-over-gaza-ceasefire-amid-rumoured-split-in-hamas-leadership

There is also talk of the IDF closing in on Sinwar. So no wonder he wants a ceasefire if that's true.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121732289#Comment_121732289

Releasing the hostages is a priority, whether that is by the IDF extracting them or Israel/Hamas agreeing terms.

Pressuring Hamas by razing Gaza clearly hasn't, nor will, work. Israel cannot simply carry on killing more and more civilians until there is just nothing left though a la Ben Gvir et al.

Terms appear to be the only sure method. It sounds like Israel is studying the Hamas response so it should be clear soon.

If they reject the terms, God knows what's next.

The only pressure it seems can be put on Hamas is to wipe them out. But that simply cannot be at the expense of civilians.They've paid too high a price already.

And yes, that is a difficulty for Israel.