Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121753266#Comment_121753266

More straw men from you.

When you're prepared to argue what I've said, and not what you wish I'd said, I'll be happy to continue the discussion. Not until then though.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751634#Comment_121751634

israel has full security.

hamas can't end anything as this genocide isn't about hamas but about stealing land on the basis of self-entitlement, for which there is nothing hamas could do to stop it.

Toeuptony

https://twitter.com/rafaelshimunov/status/1756662630473687359?t=-lDTTNKntGLfnXZXzDWDmA&s=19

Such blind hatred of a people who are barely coping in disastrous conditions.

TinyMuffin

Scumbags. And shooting to prevent them been helped.

https://x.com/ShaykhSulaiman/status/1756675499340816478?s=20

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121753535#Comment_121753535

Iron Dome says no, Israel doesn't have full security - if it did, I'd be unnecessary.

Hamas can surrender.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754041#Comment_121754041

israel has full security, the iron dome which mostly fails exists so as to create an illusion of a security problem so israel can play the victim.

hamas can't surrender as there is nobody for them to surrender to nor is there a situation where surrender would be required or could exist as this is a genocide and not a legitimate war.

nothing hamas would or could do, would stop the religiously, self-entitled, greedy motivated genocide.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754131#Comment_121754131

There was no "genocide" of Gazans before Oct 7th, even assuming what's happened since then is one.

So to stop the alleged genocide, all they had to do was not kill and kidnap Israeli civilians.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754131#Comment_121754131

Iron dome mostly fails - uhuh. As we've discussed here before, do tell how those rockets are 'firecrackers' as you've said before.

Hamas can surrender. Only in your fantasies is there no one to surrender to.

As for the genocide you describe, you've exactly described Hamas's actions, religious, greed motivated, self-entitled to sacrifice their fellow Gazans. Nicely done.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754148#Comment_121754148

there was a drip drip ethnic cleansing of gazans with the intent of genocide for decades before october 7th, and october 7th does not justify genocide, which is what the current slaughter in gaza by the terrorist state of israel amounts to.

to stop the actual, proven genocide, all they had to do was nothing, there is no justification for genocide and the over the top reaction to what was a preventable but deliberately allowed to happen terrorist attack, wouldn't be justified by that terrorist attack.

what would be justified is special forces raids and bombing actual rocket launch sites rather then makey uppy ones.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754162#Comment_121754162

the genocide is fact.

my description applies to israel, hamas are just a militarily weak ineffective terrorist organisation who are fighting a brutal apartheid blockade and occupation.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754195#Comment_121754195

There is no genocide, fitting the word in multiple times does not make it so.

It remains one of the smaller conflicts in the last 20 years.

Special forces raids, ffs.

As always hamas can end the fighting today if it so chooses same as it could any day in previous months.

It refuses to do so.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754195#Comment_121754195

This seems a theory that's stretched to breaking point: is ethnic cleansing now just another word for large scale emigration? And weren't Gazans being prevented from leaving by those evil Israelis anyway - so how were they simultaneously ethnically cleansing them?

But if they were, then presumably we northerners were also being ethnically cleansed back when one of the reasons for refusing jobs and housing to catholics was to encourage emigration so that the inbuilt loyalist majority remained intact?

But then if so, who was ethnically cleansing all the Irish from the south who were emigrating at the same or higher rates at the same time? Or is it grand when people leave due to poverty? In which case, who says the Gazans were leaving because of Israeli policies rather than Hamas running the place into the ground with their determination to build tunnels to destroy Israel instead of building an economy?

Israel had thousands of Palestinian workers crossing the border every day to work in Israel. Doesn't sound very "ethnically cleansing" does it? Giving Palestinians work that allowed them to marry and have homes and families in Gaza?

And then there's the biggest problem with your claim: the Palestinian population has been undergoing a massive population boom for decades. Compare that to the world Jewish population which took over 70 years to get back up to the numbers of Jews in the whole world after the Holocaust.

To sum up: if the Israelis are trying to commit genocide, they're pretty damn sh1t at it. You'd think they'd have learned from the best?

Or maybe... claiming that Jews are now committing genocide themselves is an anti semitic lie that bears no resemblance to reality, and is deliberately being used because it's the most hateful thing that can be alleged about a people who were the victims of a genuine attempt at genocide?

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754233#Comment_121754233

there is a genocide, the fact that it is a fact and is happening makes it so.

a small conflict can still allow for genocide, the intent is there and no care is been taken to prevent it meaning it is deliberate and is happening and being allowed to happen.

hamas can do nothing, this isn't about hamas but about land theft and re-occupation.

even if hamas stopped existing tommorw the genocide would continue.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121753347#Comment_121753347

Not at all.

In a thread about the genocide of innocent men, women and children, you sought to introduce - as some kind of argument that:

Oh this, BTW: you are joking when you try to imply that if Israel did not exist, that Palestine would be a stable democracy? Aren't you?

One of approximately zero in that part of the world - right?

Well, except for Israel, which actually is a democracy.

If Israel did not exist, statistically the likelihood is that Palestine would be an authoritarian hellhole. Quite possibly with a latent or open civil war between Muslim and/or tribal factions. That's what the other similar countries around it are like, after all.

It is all part of the dehumanisation in order to facilitate the genocide.

But feel free to tell us why your assertion that they would not have a democracy anyway in the future is in any way relevant to whether they should be allowed to live or die today

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754269#Comment_121754269

israel have been deliberately slaughtering civilians in gaza on and off for decades, they have also been slaughtering palestinians in the west bank and stealing their homes, all aspects of ethnic cleansing and genocide.

yes, the intent of belligerent unionism in northern ireland was to ethnically cleanse northern ireland of catholics/nationalists by trying to force them out, at first via discriminatory policies and then by pograms and burning them out.

israel did not have thousands of people crossing the border from gaza to work, this is a myth, what they did have is a small few who crossed with special permission with heavy restrictions, that permisssion was often revoked at the border.

a population boom does not negate genocide taking place nor mean genocide isn't happening, it is happening and israel is engaging in it.

nobody has stated jews are committing genocide seeing as israel is not the jews and the jews are not israel, jews live all over the world and like everyone else, have different views beliefs and feelings on all sorts of issues.

it is those equating israel with jews who are antisemetic, including those in support of israel who are doing it.

migration from the south of ireland cannot equate to ethnic cleansing seeing as there was no policy of forcing out people or groups of people, but simply the country was poor and unable to take care and provide for it's people.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754233#Comment_121754233

This is one of the lamest defences. They're not quite murdering enough people for it to be a genocide is essentially the excuse.

Killing a minimum of 1% and displacing another 95% of it at a minimum while engaging what are essentially siege tactics on them and starving them is basically genocide.

It may not be the largest, but it's certainly not the smallest mass killing of an ethnic or national group of people.

It will forever be a black mark on Israel

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754351#Comment_121754351

There was no genocide of catholics, and nor did I ever suggest there was.

And nor, by the way, have I defended Bloody Sunday. Quite the opposite.

Though I am at least beginning to see why you have such a terrible understanding of the Israel-Gaza conflict - you seem unable to read the words on the screen in front of you. Or maybe you just don't understand the difference between big hard words like "discrimination" versus "genocide".

Try moving your lips as you read: it may help.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754377#Comment_121754377

It is not a genocide, it is a small but locally significant fast paced war.

It will not even dent the population growth of gaza.

It's as far away with from genocide as it could be.

Let's not pretend every conflict or fight from here on is a genocide. Let that term have real meaning.

As always the power to stop it is in the hands of the party who started the war yet hamas refuse to do so.

Timberrrrrrrr

Over 11,000 dead children who will never grow up, get married and have children of their own and you come out with this despicable statement

"It will not even dent the population growth of gaza."

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754429#Comment_121754429

That's why Hamas must be stopped and rooted out.

They must never be allowed do this again.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754429#Comment_121754429

Tens of thousands more maimed and crippled for life.

Not to mind long lasting psychological effects or effects from malnutrition across the entire population

Dismissed as if it were nothing.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754438#Comment_121754438

Israel has killed these kids. Hamas are not solely responsible for their deaths

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754450#Comment_121754450

No, it's absolutely horrendous. And it is Hamas' fault.

(Any chance you'd spare a thought for the Jewish children who have also been traumatised by seeing family and friends murdered, and some of whom were kidnapped into Gaza where they were kept in awful conditions, not being fed properly while the Gazans keeping them ate normally, and being forced to keep silent, including small children, because - they were told by their captors - if the people outside in the street learned that there were Jews being kept prisoner, they'd break in and lynch them. But they should just get over it, right? They're only Jews after all.)

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121753960#Comment_121753960

This is a war crime - killing civilians and preventing medical aid.

I trust there will be a full investigation by the IDF** and the ICC will hold those found responsible fully accountable.

** doubtful on past performance

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754438#Comment_121754438

Given Israel is doing the killing, perhaps it is Israel who should be stopped and never be allowed to do this again?

If there was no genocide taking place, or a possibility of genocide, why has the ICJ issued 6 provisional measure for Israel to comply with?

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121753125#Comment_121753125

You are quoting the wrong context. I grew up in the height of the troubles, and if you went into any schools where there were 16/17-year-olds back then, you would get volunteers, for sure!! But going back to Palestine, what you said about indoctrination (by both sides) is part and parcel of the "environment" there, but if that was not enough, you have it all based on a layer of Islam which preaches no acceptance or interaction with non-Muslims. If or when there will be a peace agreement, bubbling away in the background you will have Islamic Jihad. And that's the broader picture that I was talking about. It's not just a dispute about land etc. Its inextricably tied up with religion, and in that part of the world, that counts.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754377#Comment_121754377

Oh dear. After earlier pretending you couldn't see anyone defending Hamas, despite there being posts from postes who said they would join it, and others saying that the October 7th attack was not a crime, now you're claiming that someone has said the above. They haven't.

Is there a reason why you can't see stuff that posters have actually said, and yet also imagine stuff that others haven't said? Could it possibly be to do with the posters you agree with??

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754499#Comment_121754499

Do you have a source for the hostage situation as you have described it? I wasn't aware there were reports that detailed.

You believe the blame falls entirely on Hamas alone for the killing of 30,000 and injuring 65,000?

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754438#Comment_121754438

Or

And hear me out

Israel could stop fùcking bombing innocent children.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754499#Comment_121754499

Israel as the democracy you claim it to be , has international obligations to abide by international law. Although as I said earlier Joe has one eye on the election, it also shows that the US Government disagrees with you that's it's all Hamas's fault. So much for your earlier post stating you hold both sides to account. It seems you are going out of your way to defend the IDF with this post.