Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785339#Comment_121785339

Genocide, if you prefer. I wasn't trying to diminish the importance of the crime.

As for Northern Ireland, it came up - yet again - only a few posts ago. The only reason it's relevant here is from my personal experience of normal crime continuing as usual during the troubles, and that one does not cancel out the other. Which is what you seemed to be doing when you dismiss a killing of a Gazan by Hamas on the pretext that far more Gazans have been killed by Israel. Do you think that's a comfort to the boy's family or something?

Fuascailteoir

Complete rouge state. Can see the Palestinians being pushed into the Sinai. That will never secure Israel's future, as much as they hope it would. If they engage in that level of ethnic cleansing they should be shunned for whatever period the state exists

Overheal

Egypt doesn't seem to be buying Israeli assurances that they aren't going to push the Gaza population into the Sinai

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-gaza-egypt-wall-07a40fddeaf9dbc82c2a33e1f1614419

dmcdona

Haaretz:

PM Netanyahu said that comparing "Israel to the Nazi Holocaust and to Hitler crosses a red line," and that Lula's remarks are a "trivialization of the Holocaust and an attempt to harm the Jewish people and Israel's right to defend itself." Israel's foreign minister condemned Lula's comments and said he had summoned Brazil's envoy to Israel for a reprimand.

Hmm - there must be a threshold number of civilian deaths that does not constitute genocide...

Netanyahu seems a bit touchy alright - perhaps because everyone else sees that Israel crossed a red line a long long time ago (credit to other posters for some of the data):

Against:

• 35,000 dead
• 70,000 wounded
• 2000lb dumb bombs (lethal fragmentation radius of 370m)
• White phosphorous
• 260 infants less than 1 year old murdered
• 90 children killed daily - every single day since 7th October.
• Sniping nuns, civilians carrying white flags and sheep
• Refusing water, food, fuel and medical aid
• Looting, stealing and rifling through knicker drawers
• Leaving infants to decompose in an ICU unit ad not even giving them the dece3ncy of a burial
• Bulldozing cemeteries
• Bombing ambulances and killing medical responders
• Razing universities, schools and places of worship
• Destroying hospitals
• Zaka filming PR videos on Oct 7th to raise funds
• Deliberately Targeting children and "safe areas"
• Murdering medical personnel
• Killed three of their own surrendering hostages speaking Hebrew
• Multiple war crimes
• Civilians living on animal feed (presumably a bit more of it to go around with the IDF sniping sheep)
• 70% of homes damaged
• 84% of health facilities attacked
• 90% of the population displaced
• 80% of all the starving people in the world are in Gaza

1. For Israel to take "all measures" to prevent acts of genocide from taking place - FAIL
2. To ensure the IDF does not engage in any acts of genocide - FAIL
3. To prevent and punish public incitement to genocide, including by government and military officials - FAIL
4. To enable basic services and humanitarian aid to reach Gazan civilians - FAIL
5. To preserve evidence related to violations of Genocide Convention - TBD
6. To submit a report to the ICJ within one month on all measures taken - TBD

For

• Rescued three hostages

Iscreamkone

None of Palestine’s “friends” want to give them refuge.

why? Because Palestinians have a reputation for being troublesome.

what a surprise!!!

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785391#Comment_121785391

I didn't dismiss the killing of anyone

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785453#Comment_121785453

It really is a fair comparison: Israel had no problem with the airport until the Second Intifada:

The airport was initially closed by Israel on 8 October after a bus carrying employees of the Israeli airport authority was attacked. Only aircraft serving Yasser Arafat, chairman of the Palestinian authority, were allowed to use the airport. A few days later, it was re-opened for a short while, before ongoing fighting forced it to close again.

(https://www.flightglobal.com/airport-closure-keeps-palestinian-on-the-ground-/35178.article)

IOW if the scenario I described had happened, City of Derry Airport (which is at risk of closing even without all that) could well have been closed too. Same with fishing: they didn't block the boats in order to harm the fishing industry, they blocked them because they believed that they could be used against Israel.

So yes, Israel responds very harshly to anything it sees as a risk to its security. That doesn't actually make them wrong. It's easy for people in Dublin to wring their hands.

Frank Grimes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785495#Comment_121785495

Another talking point the rest of them have largely moved on from. You really should read the thread before making any more of what you probably think are these profound contributions.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785506#Comment_121785506

You said I "didn't have a point" about the killing of a Palestinian teen by Hamas unless there were the same number of Palestinians killed by Hamas as were killed by the IDF in the war.

But one does not invalidate the other. It's not even as though we were talking about Hamas killing Israeli civilians - which would not (IMO) be justified either, but at least would make some sort of horrible sense - but AFAICT you were literally saying that one Palestinian teen being murdered by Hamas for trying to get food doesn't matter very much because Israel killed more.

If you meant something entirely different, I'm happy to hear what you did mean?

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785495#Comment_121785495

What reputation? Got any sources or evidence for this?

Frank Grimes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785647#Comment_121785647

If they bother responding it'll be something along the lines of when the PLO were in Tunisia in the 70s. Because the Palestinians/Arabs are all the same don't you know.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785575#Comment_121785575

In response to another poster who posted "The only ones who are killing the civilians are the Israelis." you posted a tweet of one Palestinian boy killed by Hamas Police for stealing food.

Seems to me that your post was justifying 35,000 civilian deaths at the hands of the IDF because Hamas killed a boy for stealing food.

Unless you meant something entirely different?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785711#Comment_121785711

I mean Israel thinks they're effectively the Amalekites, so the 70s is refreshingly modern logic.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785391#Comment_121785391

If I prefer?

There is no preference - just look up the convention on Genocide. It mentions nothing about "attempted" genocide

Maybe you prefer the softer sounding "attempted" genocide yourself?

SortingYouOut

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785773#Comment_121785773

Why can't they just get along?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785831#Comment_121785831

Because Israel wants to build the third temple.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785711#Comment_121785711

They destroyed Lebanon and they tried to destroy Jordan.

Their refusal to have a 2 state solution.

Countless attacks across Europe and elsewhere that were just killing for the sake of killing.

Countless contributions to supporting the most extreme jihadist movements in many Arab countries.

The PLO for all their savagery and killing were still not as bad as Hamas, not even close. They were very much a colonial legacy movement, full of European ideas about Socialism and Nationhood.

With Hamas their is no interest in politics or even statehood.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121784148#Comment_121784148

No, their commitment to never ending war remains.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785885#Comment_121785885

As it does with Bibi. Just in case you need reminding:)

Frank Grimes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785867#Comment_121785867

Ok, they're all the same, I get it.

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785885#Comment_121785885

I'm not seeing any end of expansionist settlement building in the OT.........

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785956#Comment_121785956

No, how did you get that.

Maybe you replied to the wrong post or haven't read much history about the Palestinian movements, both would check out.

Frank Grimes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785987#Comment_121785987

No I replied to the correct post and I'm not getting into some sort of pissing contest with you about what I've read. You clearly think they're all the same so at least just admit it or else stop attempting to make condescending rebuttals that aren't as clever as you probably think they are.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786005#Comment_121786005

I clearly said that the PLO are not like hamas.

Iscreamkone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786005#Comment_121786005

Are you the new Mod here?

You seem to be Judge Judy & Executioner on what people should be posting - especially those who don’t agree with your leftie/woke views x

Overheal

Western Karen raging mad when she stumbles into Japanese protest chanting that Israel are terrorist

https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnewsvideo/s/rNW7SIA17w

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785215#Comment_121785215

It's whatabouttery. It's distracting from one thing by pointing out another.

That's what the core of whatabouttery is all about. One crowd does something and to distract you point at another thing that a different crowd did.

Hamas killing that teen is horrendous. Let's assume that it was a deliberate killing, then hamas are scum. Even if it's accidental, hamas are still scum. They've done enough to the palestinian population over the last 10 years that they'd still be scum. So pointing out one killing by Hamas doesn't make a difference to the overall picture. I'm sure it's a tragedy and broke the world for the kids parents. And for that reason the perpetrators should be brought to justice.

But the reason it's whatabouttery is because unless you're also calling for justice for the people killed by the israeli airstrikes/shelling/, it's just hypocracy. By all means have an investigation into this killing happened. But unless there's also loud calls for the crimes of israels to be investigated then they're just hollow words. Where's the cries for an investigation into every bombing where a civilian was killed/injured. Where's the calls for an investigation into the mass destruction of property? Where's the demand for evidence from israel?

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786781#Comment_121786781

Except that I didn’t post it as a “look over there” post, but as a correction to someone else’s mistake: they said that Israel are the only ones killing Gazans. That’s untrue. Hamas have a long record of extrajudicial killings of Palestinians. This latest incident is far more likely to be typical of what goes on all the time but isn’t reported.

Not in any way a justification for avoidable deaths of civilians in the war - but relevant when considering who Israel are fighting, and also significant regarding the delivery of aid and why people saying it should just be sent across the border don’t care that Hamas will just take it themselves if it’s not done properly.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787060#Comment_121787060

So, if extrajudicial killings by Hamas are not reported, where is the evidence for their "long record"?

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787115#Comment_121787115

I presume he means the killing of informants without due process which are well documented by both Hamas and Israel. Hamas used to publicly execute them in front of a crowd.