Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

satguy

The Israelis have been killing women and children for the best part of 20 years now.

And the more money and equipment the USA give them the more civilians they kill. Some of the lies the Israelis have been telling in the last few days about dead babies are just a smoke screen to hide what they are doing to the Palestinians.

How can a nation that will Bulldoze a Palestinian area to make way for Jewish Settlers have any honor,, How can the West watch this and let it go. Why?

Bad things have been done on both sides,, And no end is in sight..

Burty330

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227176#Comment_121227176

What do you mean their land? The Jews and Judaism which far predates Islam have been on that land since babylon times. Don't be telling me to read any book. That only tells me how uninformed you are.

History lesson -

Israel recognizes the sovereignty of the Palestinian Authority over the West Bank and Gaza Strip in the Oslo Accords. Yasser Arafat, an egyptian Btw, uses it to support terrorism.

2000: Israel offers Yasser Arafat recognition of a Palestinian state in all of Gaza and 94% of the West Bank with East Jerusalem as its Capital. Arafat rejects it and launches the Second Intifada. 2005:

Israel pulls out of the gaza , dismantles all its settlements, and forces Jews to leave their homes. Palestinians respond by electing Hamas who turn it into a terror state.

2008: Israel offers Mahmoud Abbas once again recognition of a Palestinian state in all of gaza and 94% of the West Bank with East Jerusalem as its Capital and even offered to dismantle all their settlements. And once again, the Palestinians reject it.

2010-2021: Hamas launches periodic rocket attacks against the state of Israel and builds terror tunnels in order to kidnap and murder Jews while using the people of Gaza as human shields against the IDF.

There's a chain of events that lead to Isreals brutal response and its mosty always instigated by the Arabs. Hamas knows what will happenen to innocent lives yet sacrifices them without a care in the world.

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227406#Comment_121227406

I don't have a 'lot'.

There are some fairly bonkers people on the Israeli side i.e. the haridim, but the bulk of Israeli Jews are pretty secular. Certainly nothing like the insane death cult that is Hamas.

If you ever want validation of this, go check out the gay scene in Tel Aviv!

Long Sean Silver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227478#Comment_121227478

like that clown Bush, post 911. Bin Laden couldn't believe his luck he even said so.

1 trillion Dollars, 1 million dead, 20 years later (the creation of Al Qaeda/ISIS), and now Israel has a replica clown about to mimic those same mistakes.

UNBELIEVABLE

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227523#Comment_121227523

I'm sure they have checked it out, exit points, lanes where a car could be driven up close etc etc

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227509#Comment_121227509

Are you denying hamas killed children in Saturdays and Sundays terrorist attack, what is currently happening in Gaza since Saturday was brought up the Palestinians by terrorists , terrorists who are directly funded by others countries,

Has Hamas done anything to improve the lives of Gazans over the last few decades, have they tried to do anything that didn't involve terrorist attacks and sending kids off on suicide bombings and killing under the guise of Martyrdom,

Both sides have to be condemned absolutely condemned,

But until both sides realise that violence only breeds violence then nothing will change,

One side has made concessions the other has made zero consessions while continuing to regularly carry out terrorist attacks

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227464#Comment_121227464

Some of them might have been, who knows. I've seen some awful videos of IDF soldiers urinating on Hamas terrorists and running over bodies too, really awful stuff.

You have to admit though, if we actually stop for a moment with this back and forth 'your side is worth than mine! crap, and apply logic to the situation, what is more logical - that a young attractive woman practically naked and unconscious in the back of a van filled with terrorists is going to have been sexually assaulted, or that stripped captive male terrorists will have been sexually assaulted?

Without going down a 'males and rape' rabbit hole, rape happens during war and it is predominantly male on female. It's a fact of War. During WW2, US soldiers liberating France raped French women.

I'd suggest having a read of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_liberation_of_France

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227588#Comment_121227588

And there's eye witness testimony of Hamas carrying out rapes during the horrific attacks at the music festival.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/survivors-of-hamas-assault-on-music-fest-describe-horrors-and-how-they-made-it-out-alive

Burty330

Sadat Anwar the egyptian president assassinated for making peace with Isreal

https://youtu.be/FiTV4GBQnkI?si=-WgBdaaI_OCytf3l

Long Sean Silver

i think they would be ill-advised to go gung ho after Iran. they probably are behind this, but it would be prudent to gather proof first. we dont want another WMD scenario.

the priority is dealing with now HAMAS, then at a later stage Iran (if proven). AND they shouldn't just ignore (what's left of) the Palestinians. they need to make peace with them, if possible.

it will be more difficult to make peace with them than to bomb & starve them. mass murder is pretty easy if you got the means, which Israel clearly does.

anybody that thinks knocking 7 shades (ie comitting War Crimes) outta the Gaza and we're done is beyond stupidity imo. this will take decades.

An Ri rua

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121216600#Comment_121216600

https://piqsuite.com/reuters/un-experts-say-israels-strikes-on-gaza-amount-to-collective-punishment

WAR CRIME. As is kidnap.

UN experts say Israel's strikes on Gaza amount to 'collective punishment'

Oct 12th, 09:46:30

GENEVA (Reuters via PiQSuite.com) -A group of independent United Nations experts on Thursday condemned violence against civilians in Israel and deplored the "collective punishment" of reprisal strikes against Gaza.

While condemning the "horrific crimes committed by Hamas", the group said that Israel had resorted to "indiscriminate military attacks against the already exhausted Palestinian people of Gaza".

"They have lived under unlawful blockade for 16 years, and already gone through five major brutal wars, which remain unaccounted for," the group, which includes several U.N. special rapporteurs, said in a statement.

"This amounts to collective punishment. There is no justification for violence that indiscriminately targets innocent civilians, whether by Hamas or Israeli forces. This is absolutely prohibited under international law and amounts to a war crime."

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226348#Comment_121226348

The Whitehouse has clarified Biden's statement. I think your post might have been a bit premature ........

Furze99

Israel is doing real & serious & lasting damage to it's image in these days. That's what they seem to be forgetting - the world is watching and an increase in hatred towards this state can only be increasing. They are lost in a fog of retribution. Yes, they've done this before but there comes a point when even ordinary people are aghast.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227368#Comment_121227368

Indeed, and with the eyes of the world on the region the impetus is there.

Israel is the more powerful combatant. It is not being invaded and is fully mobilised to be able to defend its borders against militants who managed a surprise attack but are not capable of taking on the Israelis head-to-head. They are in the better position to keep cooler heads and think in longer terms.

They had global sympathy from the events of the weekend and eyes were opened to the nature of Hamas — for whom this is not a freedom fight, but a fanatic cultist Jihad. There was room for Israel to step forward and show the world that they are the conciliatory force and that, from an "enough is enough" standpoint they are committed to a sustainable solution. If they could react reasonably to the horror perpetrated on them, in full acknowledgement that such things are easier said than done, there was opportunity.

Instead, in demolishing Gaza they are demolishing their goodwill. They are acting with the same vengeful emotion that sent the Americans into hopeless wars after 9/11 that made the world more unstable, more dangerous, cultivated more hate and only contributed to the cycle of violence.

An Ri rua

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227497#Comment_121227497

Is it not possible to criticise a government /foreign policy position while having empathy for the people? Strikes me as a tad naive or, say it ain't so, disingenuous.

Clearly SF identify with the Palestinians. That's old news. Leo Varadkar is also balancing his language. Its what measured people do as they occupy the middle; or aspire to.

Do you wholeheartedly agree with the Irish foreign policy position? Assuming that you are an Irish citizen?? Very vitriolic chap/chapette...

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227588#Comment_121227588

I think your “logic” is perverse. Rape in wartime has nothing got to with being “young and attractive” it’s about hate, terror, domination and humiliation.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227727#Comment_121227727

Not strange at all, I started to reply before the edit, the comment was so outrageous (and still is, despite the clarification) that I delayed responding so as to make sure I wasn't overdoing the response. It took a while to calm down sufficiently to respond civilly.

JC01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226212#Comment_121226212

Putin hasn’t used nukes for a number of reasons. He probably doesn’t see the military value in it (yet), he doesn’t want to irradiate half of Ukraine and Russia (easterly wind) and I’d imagine the Russian nuclear arsenal is as disappointing as its second army of the world has proven to be so probably doesn’t want to prove that to the world either. Unsure of how nukes came up to be honest. You claimed Isreal was a terror state intent on exterminating the Palestinians, I highlighted how facts would show otherwise. I used Russia as an example of a terrorist state that actually is working to severely harm the ethnic makeup of Ukraine as can be seen in its mass kidnappings of 100s of thousands of Ukrainian children. Isreal has never kidnapped a Palestinian child as far as I’m aware? Actually Hamas are the only side of this conflict guilty lf mass kidnappings which means they are the one sharing common ground with Russians terror inducing actions here.

As for the water, if I supply my neighbours water and he breaks in ans murders my family well then I’m going to turn the supply off simple as.

To complicate it a bit more it’s the “next step up” as Israel has to be seen to match the level of escalation that Hamas has brought to this conflict in the last week. I’m not justifying it as a moral or correct act because it’s not, it’s horrible and will cause immense suffering but I’m also mature enough to realise that that’s what happens in a war that has been opened as this one has. I don’t think it’s Israel trying to ethnically cleanse Gaza or end the Palestinian people etc.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227732#Comment_121227732

Is it really significantly different whether the babies were beheaded or just merely butchered?

Arguing that Hamas really aren't so bad because they refrained from beheading the babies they butchered isn't a good look, is it?

An Ri rua

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227817#Comment_121227817

Turn the water off, as a landlord, or a neighbour where the water valve was inadvertently left on your property, and you'll find yourself prosecuted.

Its important to not post daft stuff. Simple as.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227834#Comment_121227834

Well you can't really be making a big deal about the beheading aspect specifically and then say it is irrelevant if it turns out to have no basis.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227521#Comment_121227521

Are you seriously arguing for a return of all lands everywhere to be returned to the descendants of original holders as of 500BC?

Who will come for your house?

If that is your “history lesson” then I can recommend some further reading for you.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227817#Comment_121227817

Apartheid state is the correct term.

Racial Classification:

Citizens are classified into distinct racial or ethnic groups, with legal definitions and consequences based on these classifications. Check

Segregation Laws:

Legislation enforces physical separation of different racial groups in public spaces, schools, housing, and other aspects of daily life.Check

Restricted Movement:

There are limitations on the freedom of movement for certain racial groups, often requiring permits or passes for travel between designated areas.Check

Unequal Access to Resources:

Certain racial groups face systematic economic and social disadvantages, with unequal access to education, healthcare, employment opportunities, and other resources.Check

Discriminatory Legal System:

The legal system is structured to favor the dominant racial group, with discriminatory laws and policies that reinforce the subordinate status of other racial groups.

Separate Educational Systems:

Different racial groups have separate and often unequal educational systems, with variations in quality, resources, and opportunities for advancement.Check

Limited Political Rights:

Members of certain racial groups are denied full political rights, including the right to vote or participate in the political process on an equal basis.Check

Forced Removals:

Certain racial groups may be forcibly removed from their homes and communities to create segregated living areas or to enforce racial purity.Check

Violence and Repression:

The state may use violence, intimidation, and repression to maintain control and suppress dissent among marginalized racial groups.Check

State-Sponsored Discrimination:

Discrimination is not just a societal issue but is often explicitly supported and enforced by the state, including through legislation and government policies.Check

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227817#Comment_121227817

You can't say you are not justifying it and then in the next sentence, justify as being part of war. Not condemning an action because its just part of war as you see it, is a slippery slope to justifying a whole host of actions that happen in war sometimes but shouldn't happen, like killing POWs.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227723#Comment_121227723

That is just careful text. It says that violence that indiscriminately targets innocent civilians is absolutely prohibited under international law and amounts to a war crime. I don't disagree with that.

However, it says "whether by Hamas or Israeli forces", so it isn't referring to particular instances, and isn't drawing a judgement. All I have done is point to the clear war crimes - the actions of Hamas at the music festival, the kibbutz and in homes - while also pointing to the grey area in respect of the Israeli actions.

Nothing in that text contradicts what I have said. I also believe that the horrific war crimes committed by Hamas are to be condemned, and the Israeli reaction goes way, way too far.

TracyMartell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227751#Comment_121227751

Yeah it’s a huge conspiracy against you in particular 🙄

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227849#Comment_121227849

You can stick with the "I only butchered them m'Lord, I didn't behead them" defence for Hamas if you wish, I don't buy it.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227855#Comment_121227855

I kind of think that there is one clear difference between the two sides.

Israel allows Muslims and Palestinians to live among them, albeit subject to discriminatory laws that Israelis feel are needed to protect themselves.

Palestinians don't allow Jews to live among them, they just want to eliminate them from the face of the earth. You can't be discriminated against if you don't exist.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227880#Comment_121227880

You know that Israeli special forces stormed a Gazan orphanage last night and used battery powered portable circular saws to cut all the limbs and heads off more than 100 crying Palestinian kids?

Obviously I have no evidence that this happened, but we do know that Palestinian kids were killed in airstrikes last night. And - as you have already established - we can lie about the methodology used in the murder as it is irrelevant. So you will have no issue with my statement above

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227595#Comment_121227595

One Israeli soldier.