Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

amandstu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344419#Comment_121344419

Yes,very informative.We imagine we can find a right resolution to such a web of disasters.

That certainly gives an insight into the lived experiences of those times.

I am at a loss for words.

sock.rocker*

I've also noticed some changes since this all started. Everyone I know who was not particularly interested in Israel and Palestine are disgusted by Israel's actions and openly talk about it.

The one American I'm good friends with who is incredibly pro-Israel and who has visited there many times has feelings as strong as McGiver, unkel etc. here. No ceasefire / aid etc. Somehow we still meet for beers every week and this topic has not come up once because we both know it would be the immediate end of the friendship, though we used to talk about it in general up until October 7th.

The Israelis I know don't seem to bring it up at all either, and to be completely honest, I'm glad one has happened to have left this summer because I wouldn't want him belaying me in the climbing gym with the Israeli rhetoric about Ireland being a hostile nation. Collective punishment being all the rage and that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344721#Comment_121344721

"Eligible"

So you're counting those who could be Jews, but who mightn't want to be considered as such. I think your making rather banal statements yourself on who is or isn't Jewish IMO.

unkel

Ceann Comhairle refuses Israeli ambassador request to show graphic footage of Hamas attack to politicians

No surprise there. Head in the sand stuff. They don't want to know how barbaric it was.

https://www.thejournal.ie/ceann-comhairle-israeli-ambassador-screening-request-6218287-Nov2023/

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344755#Comment_121344755

...That's not my calculation, you know.

As of 2023, the world's "core" Jewish population (those identifying as Jews above all else) was estimated at 16.1 million,[1][2] 0.2% of the 8 billion worldwide population. This number rises to 18 million with the addition of the "connected" Jewish population, including those who say they are partly Jewish or that have Jewish backgrounds from at least one Jewish parent, and rises again to 21 million with the addition of the "enlarged" Jewish population, including those who say they have Jewish backgrounds but no Jewish parents and all non-Jewish household members who live with Jews. Counting all those who are eligible for Israeli citizenship under Israel's Law of Return, in addition to Israeli Jews, raised the total to 23.8 million.[3]

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344570#Comment_121344570

It's a lot darker than that. Not just emotions, people were led to believe falsehoods. I guess the direct result of consuming (mostly new media) news from sources that provide confirmation bias, fed by algorithms trained on those emotions people have showed in the past?

Maybe I sound like an old person, but gone are the days that people read a trustworthy newspaper, looked at trustworthy documentaries and news sources on the telly. Now it's X, facebook and youtube. Tiktok even. And when people discuss these matters on social media, many people just spout the same feelings, they think are arguments. Without even listening to others or reasoning with them. With near zero balanced historical knowledge of what happened. We've all seen this all over this thread too

sock.rocker*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344777#Comment_121344777

Obviously an appeal to emotion to justify killing thousands of innocent people. It worked on you but it doesn't mean politicians should be swayed by it. That's how ethnic cleansing happens.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344785#Comment_121344785

"As of 2023, the world's "core" Jewish population (those identifying as Jews above all else) was estimated at 16.1 million"

My figures are/were based on the core total to avoid any confusion here. Claiming (the article, not you) there's 23.8 million where your including "and all non-Jewish household members who live with Jews" in that total is an exercise in creative accounting to say the least.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344787#Comment_121344787

"but gone are the days that people read a trustworthy newspaper, looked at trustworthy documentaries and news sources on the telly. Now it's X, facebook and youtube. Tiktok even."

True. For this reason alone sometimes I wish that the internet could be deinvented.

Overheal

Is he right about the Irish sentiment?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1HPFUy2wxU

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344795#Comment_121344795

Take your complaint to Israel, it's 'accounting' based on their law, and they claim to speak for all Jews. We seem to agree their position is illogical, and 'creative.'

sock.rocker*

Maybe the Israeli ambassador should request to show this comic from the Washington Post to politicians as well.

Overheal

Rashida Tlaib speaking out after Congressional censure

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2-TEp90bLg

DEFTLEFTHAND

It's kinda weird to observe this strange solidarity that exists between Palestine and the working class Irish. They seem to equate it to Ireland and Britain somehow.

I know the Provos also had a hard on for this type of thing.

To hear a Jackeen from Clondalkin who never worked a day in his life mouth about this issue is utterly sickening though. A big uneducated fool.

DEFTLEFTHAND

No understanding or appreciation of the history.

sock.rocker*

It's a lot weirder to observe widespread international support for a country that was being condemned months ago for stealing land, settling hundreds of thousands of people, and killing Palestinians in the West Bank.

Can anyone think of any example of a country in recent centuries that received support while doing this? I don't mean like support behind the scenes or whatever.. I mean actual support in the news and by presidents etc. That's why there are protests against this support because it doesn't make any sense to people.

Sir_Name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344777#Comment_121344777

Curious, what benefit is there to showing it? We are all aware of the reports and how barbaric it was. Extract from Time of Israel below regarding mental health and victims family wishes.

''Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu reportedly supports releasing the video into the public arena. It has yet to be published due to opposition from the families of some of the victims seen in it, according to the Ynet news site. Israeli mental health experts have also warned against making it public. ''

Israel shows world media harrowing footage of Hamas attack to 'get message across' | The Times of Israel

TheRepentent

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344878#Comment_121344878

I'd say the israeli's are pissed off their own war crimes are well documented.....since 1948.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344857#Comment_121344857

The comparison of the Palestinians being like unionists works better, but the comparisons in general are not relevant as the mindset and situation is specific to there.

Hamas like the LVF and the PLO like the UVF, relics of empire and supremacist thinking, angry that those they were taught for centuries were beneath them do better than them.

brickster69

Do we have numbers of friendly fire casualties from the 7th ?

https://twitter.com/propandco/status/1718092723750899809

Sir_Name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121343034#Comment_121343034

To be clear, I have no issue with Israel as a state/country. What happened back in WWII was an an atrocity and while I think more thought could have been put in the initial partition we are where we are and I accept it. Israelis and Palestinians have a right to exist. However lets be clear.

I do not care if Tom, Dick or Harry from any place in world want to avail of the right to return. Thats their right. What is not their right, or Israels right is to avail on that right of return on land that is not Israels, and persecute and evict Palestinians from their homes. And this is whats happening today and over the last number of decades. You maybe uncomfortable with the use of the world 'colonisation' however that is what has been happening. What i find honestly mind boggling, is how given the history of the WWII et al, and given the direct experiences of persecution, how they believe they have the right to inflict that on others as an entitlement.

Israel’s illegal occupation of Palestinian territory, tantamount to ‘settler-colonialism’: UN expert | UN News

'Israel’s occupation is illegal and indistinguishable from a “settler-colonial” situation, which must end, as a pre-condition for Palestinians to exercise their right to self-determination, the UN’s independent expert on the occupied Palestinian territory''

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344455#Comment_121344455

Nobody is arguing on the side of hamas. the atrocities hamas committed were obscene. If every single person who participated in, planned or ordered those attacks died, no-one would complain. It's honestly disgusting that anyone would even accuse someone else of that.

However that does not mean that people are ok with the destruction of Gaza city, the indiscriminate bombing of civilians, the blockade cutting off freshwater, food and medicine from civilians. Thousands of children have died in the Israeli bombardment. That is not a moral or proportionate response. That is a human tragedy that should have been avoided at all cost.

And no, you can't blame hamas for that. Hamas bear responsibility for every single person the hurt or killed the day they launched their attack. Israel bears responsibility for every bomb they drop. And claiming "human shields" is not an acceptable excuse. If there was a hamas operative in a building in Tel Aviv, would the israeli military bomb that building? No they wouldn't because the loss of life woulds be too great. But when it's a Palestinian building they don't care.

brickster69

BBC reporting on increasing violence in the West Bank

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wiH75JBhWg

sock.rocker*

Some lunatic Americans used to argue that having a problem with drones wiping out wedding parties in Afghanistan or Iraq, or having a problem with hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths, meant you supported Al Qaeda, or the Taliban, or 9/11.

Two decades later, we still see the exact same garbage where having a problem with a military response is akin to support of the other side's atrocities.

freebritney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344915#Comment_121344915

I'd love to have a crystal ball and look 200 years into the future to see if Israel still exists (or any country for that matter). Will there be fat, tattooed Israeli's dressed as ice-cream sellers banging drums and playing flutes marching down main street Gaza, singing about being up to their knees in Arab blood and the Nakba's over, why don't you go home.

Fuascailteoir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344915#Comment_121344915

Clearly those loyalist organisations themselves would not agree witht hat as they have always had a great grá for the IDF and the fascistic tendencies of the Israeli state. The thoughts of keeping an indigenous population under foot through military might stokes their appreciation. The thoughts of throwing natives of their land in the West bank and siezing their property would send them into raptures

nacho libre

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/videos/international/israel-journalist-gideon-levys-old-video-calling-out-netanyahu-and-occupation-of-palestine-gaza-goes-viral/videoshow/105071938.cms

Unkel, do you agree with what he says?

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121345215#Comment_121345215

Howabout you summarize rather than just compel everyone to wade through 20 minutes of video? Quotes would help.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121343105#Comment_121343105

Because Netanyahu has undercut PLO / Fatah at every opportunity he has had since his first stint 25 years ago. He essentially is more responsible for Hamas becoming the preeminent force in Gaza than any individual not in Hamas because he he could not stand to see a unified Palestinian authority possibly succeed

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344777#Comment_121344777

Everyone knows how barbaric it was. Israel however want to now use it as a propaganda tool to elicit an emotional response in a effort to get people to ignore the subsequent barbarity in Gaza. Its bloody disgusting