Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360813#Comment_121360813

They will destroy it from the air, level every bridge, every military installation. Every police station , every power station, every state owned asset or govt building, every port. Every fishing harbour, Every barracks, every lorry that tries to enter or leave the country all communications, roads airports, everyone in a state uniform from the lollypop lady up, think what's happening in Gaza but gloves off and with a matter of urgency.

They may or may not send in soldiers after a few months of that, there might not be much left.

They did get a bloody nose in 2006, no doubt.

Difference now is that Israel is in a state of war, if they meet stiff resistance, they keep escalating the response till it is destroyed and given the severity of the threat there really isn't a line there, treat Beirut like 1944 Berlin? They won't be under prepared reservists in too few numbers and supplies, the opposite

The damage to Israel would be immense too, the barrage of rockets will overwhelm their defenses.

The calls to end Beirut will be very loud when Tel Aviv has been well ripped.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360692#Comment_121360692

RTE's The Week In Politics said the reason Tony Connelly is in Tel Aviv and not Gaza is that the regime won't allow him or any international journalists into the area. Are they afraid that their multiple lies and falsehoods about what is actually happening there will be exposed? If hospitals in Gaza are full of Hamas fighters and weapons, surely the regime would want hundreds of international reporters there to verify this.

https://www.npr.org/2023/11/11/1212467226/why-its-so-hard-for-journalists-to-report-from-gaza

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360866#Comment_121360866

Interesting. I guess Hezbollah has its finger much closer to the pulse than Hamas. Hezbollah knows full well that they would be exterminated if they got involved.

Now all we in this thread can do is wait. Wait for Hamas to be gone. Hopefully it will be done with the least number of civilian (mostly children) deaths possible. But it has to be done at any cost now. Hamas leadership gave humanity no other option. They will continue to kill Jews forever more if it was up to them.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360882#Comment_121360882

Hezbollah know if they drag Israel into a full scale war the US carrier group off their coast won't be just sightseeing.

When the US Secretary of State says: “Far too many Palestinians have been killed. Far too many have suffered these past weeks,”

I think we're past the least number of civilian deaths possible.

amandstu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360804#Comment_121360804

"u're asking me how I would act in a hypothetical situation which hasn't occurred"

Yes I am,for the third time.

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360882#Comment_121360882

We're already far past the "least number of civilian deaths possible", especially when it comes to children who are being massacred by the Israelis at a rate never seen anywhere in the world in a great many years. And there is absolutely zero chance that these continual atrocities and crimes against humanity that the Israelis are committing will see an end Hamas, it will only turn far more of those who survive to extremism as they will come to the conclusion that the only way to fight the extreme terrorism of the Israelis is with retaliatory terrorism of their own, as it looks more and more to them that Israel will continue to kill Arabs forever more if nothing is done to fight back.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360932#Comment_121360932

I disagree. I feel the extermination of the evil Hamas might, just might, be the start of a meaningful peace. I just hope Gazans generally agree to this now. They didn't do themselves any favour voting in terrrorists as their rulers. What is it that is said about peoples? They get the rulers they deserve?

sock.rocker*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121359400#Comment_121359400

Is it like the pre-WWII camps then? Find something to compare it to.

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360939#Comment_121360939

Fair enough, let's just agree to disagree if you don't think too many children have been murdered and if you choose to cling onto an extremely simplistic view that mass murdering people and terrorising them is somehow going to stop terrorism rather than cause it (and lets not forget that Israel created and fostered Hamas both indirectly by brutalising and terrorising the Palestinians and pushing them to extremism, and directly by funding Hamas and helping them to power in order to weaken the PLO)

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360939#Comment_121360939

I think the innocent men, women and children in Gaza under 35 years old who were too young to vote for Hamas may say differently.

Then again you could say the same about Israelis, they potentially elected a war criminal to power. But you wouldn't tar all Israeli's with the same brush like you do with Gazans?

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360954#Comment_121360954

Actually I fully agree with you. It's terrible from both ways.

sock.rocker*

If Israel is going to continue to bomb hospitals and its supporters agree with it, then there needs to be a ceasefire and all patients moved to Israeli hospitals or international hospital ships.

amandstu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360951#Comment_121360951

I rationalize this as Israel as a whole feeling that it's very existence is at risk.

So they have ,in their eyes to defend themselves in the most expedient way.

Sure ,some among them may enjoy the feeling of revenge or just punishment (with collateral damage that may ethically be attributed to their enemies ) but even if they were merely dispassionate about the need to protect their country and people (which cannot really be dispassionate at any level).. even then they might still choose the same path of "I hate to do this but there is no choice.It is for the best"

Why are they in this place where they may think their very existence is in peril?

Blame on both and all sides but here ,I believe is where they are.

It is hard to expect the highest moral behaviour from those who feel their backs are to the wall(especially if they have not exhibited moral behaviour in the time preceeding this terrible event)

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360581#Comment_121360581

Hezbollah does not want a full scale war with Israel. It's obvious from Nasrallah's speeches. He has avoided declaring an all out war on two occasions. It's almost as if there is a tacit understanding that a certain level of attacks wil be tolerated to avoid a full scale war. You might not like to admit it but Israel are keen to avoid a full scale war too. As it would involve much higher casualties for them than the current war against Hamas.

However no one is wiping Israel out. Why do you keep persisting with this canard? Israel has one of the most powerful armies in the world, who just happened to be backed up by the strongest army in the world. This is likely why there has been no wider conventional war to date and there won't be in future.

sock.rocker*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360964#Comment_121360964

Do you rationalise in this manner for Palestinians too or just Israelis?

sock.rocker*

I rationalize this as Palestine as a whole feeling that it's very existence is at risk.

So they have ,in their eyes to defend themselves in the most expedient way.

Sure ,some among them may enjoy the feeling of revenge or just punishment (with collateral damage that may ethically be attributed to their enemies ) but even if they were merely dispassionate about the need to protect their country and people (which cannot really be dispassionate at any level).. even then they might still choose the same path of "I hate to do this but there is no choice.It is for the best"

Why are they in this place where they may think their very existence is in peril?

Blame on both and all sides but here ,I believe is where they are.

It is hard to expect the highest moral behaviour from those who feel their backs are to the wall(especially if they have not exhibited moral behaviour in the time preceeding this terrible event)

sock.rocker*

As I said a few pages back, it's just the classic "The only Moral Abortion is My Abortion" repurposed for war.

Truly, you must believe me. I hate war crimes and murdering children, but this one time for the first time in history, it's actually right. Believe me. I am completely against war crimes and do not think anyone should commit them, after this one specific event where they are totally required. She's only 17. She's too young to have a baby and the father is dead beat. She'll make a great mother when she's older and we'll support her then. But I am still totally against abortion.

amandstu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360966#Comment_121360966

No,I haven't got around to that. Is there a reason one shouldn't?

Or are you just trying to put a label on me?

amandstu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360970#Comment_121360970

That is copyright old chum.You are so smart though.

dalyboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360750#Comment_121360750

I’m saying the opposite actually. I’m firmly against Israel’s tactics of so called defending themselves when innocent lives are being taken indiscriminately. Additionally/equally I’m firmly against hamas killing Israelis.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360714#Comment_121360714

Took you a while. They're nowhere because Palestine is not officially recognised as a state what with it being a prison

Sir_Name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360683#Comment_121360683

Whats your definition of a combatant -does it include civilians, teenagers throwing stones?

Israel holds over 1,200 detainees without charge. That's the most in 3 decades, a rights group says | AP News

Israel is holding over 1,200 detainees — nearly all of them Palestinians — without charge or trial, the highest number in over three decades, an Israeli human rights group said Tuesday.

The detainees, 99% of whom are Palestinians, are held under Israel’s policy of “administrative detention,” without trial and under allegations that Israeli authorities keep secret.

The detentions can range from a few months to years — and authorities often extend them for unknown reasons, according to Jessica Montell, the executive director of Hamoked, the rights group that published the figures.

Sir_Name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360714#Comment_121360714

Hamas are not a country last time I checked. Ridiculous...

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360939#Comment_121360939

It's extremely unlikely. Israel have now killed thousands of children.

I'm a pacifist but if I was a Palestinian who had their family killed by an israeli bomb I can't say that my ideals would hold.

Ask yourself this, if after the worst IRA attacks, had the british bombed IRA strongholds in Derry, killing hundreds, would the people of Derry thought "That's ok. We'll have peace now". And would the people of Derry, who voted for SF have deserved it?

And just a reminder, the majority of those alive in gaza never voted for Hamas. The last election was in 2006. That was 17 years ago. About half the population of Gaza is under 18.

The blinkers some people wear amaze me. They think that this is some type of simple game. Hamas = bad and therefore Israel = Good. And if israel just kill enough of Hamas they'll win.

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360060#Comment_121360060

No surprise unforunately. If you presume the injured is double also and adjust it to Ireland's population, it is like Ireland having 5 Twin towers a week for 5 weeks.

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121359497#Comment_121359497

I'll happy provide feedback and I'll probably find what you're saying to be accurate as it is also the case with the Bible where you have fundamentalist Christians completely missing the point of Christs message and embarking on a path of hate and vitriol. We see the same in Judaism with some hardliners in Israel coming out with equally insane rhetoric.

I am an atheist but I do find theism interesing in the sense that it can shape cultures but I certainly wouldn't be painting an entire populace based on it like some on this thread seem to be determined to do. Like you say, there's great people and not so great people everywhere. I honestly just believe most people just want to have a safe home, food and happy family.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360961#Comment_121360961

That would only spread the conflict

When Israel ran out of easy targets in Gaza it would have to start striking the hospitals in those other countries instead in order to satisfy their bloodlust against Palestinians.

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360939#Comment_121360939

When in history has this ever worked?

Cluedo Monopoly

Largest Gaza hospital 'not functioning', says WHO (rte.ie)

The largest hospital in Gaza has ceased to function and fatalities among patients are rising, the head of the World Health Organization (WHO) has said.

Hospitals in the north of the Palestinian enclave, including the al-Shifa complex, are blockaded by Israeli forces and barely able to care for those inside, with three newborns dead and more at risk from power outages amid intense fighting nearby, according to medical staff.

Get this....

Israel's military said it had offered to evacuate newborn babies and had placed 300 litres of fuel at al-Shifa's entrance on Saturday night, but both gestures had been blocked by Hamas.

Hamas denied that it refused the fuel and said the hospital was under the authority of Gaza's Health Ministry, adding that the amount of fuel Israel said it offered was "not enough to operate the (hospital's) generators for more than half an hour".

Ashraf Al-Qidra, spokesperson for the Health Ministry, said that of 45 babies in incubators at al-Shifa, three had already died.

A plastic surgeon in al-Shifa said bombing of the building housing incubators had forced staff to line up premature babies on ordinary beds, using the little power available to run the air conditioning to warm.

"We are expecting to lose more of them day by day," said DrAhmed El Mokhallalati.

The Palestinian Red Crescent said the strip's second largest hospital, Al-Quds, was also out of service, with staff struggling to care for those already there with little medicine, food and water.

"Al Quds hospital has been cut off from the world in thelast six to seven days. No way in, no way out," said Tommaso Della Longa, spokesperson for the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies.

------------------------------

Israel offered enough fuel for 30 minutes. Can you believe that. Enough to fuel another Netanyahu lie. 2 largest hospitals not functioning now as per plan.

Rezident

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360951#Comment_121360951

Not going to stop terrorism but the aim is to stop Hamas first and find the hostages.

Obviously the current war will drive more Palestinians towards extremism, but Hamas was not short of support in Gaza to begin with and they have a history of attacking Israel and suicide bombers etc. so I don't see any good options for Israel, considering its neighbours.

Radical Islam does not appear to be able to live in peace with Jews. Or Hindus or Christians or atheists or even with different types of Muslims. There will be no lasting peace in the middle east, Israel just has to do what it must to defend itself and survive.

One side started this war and could end it by releasing the hostages.

Only one side is using women and children (and babies) as human shields.