Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Tell me how

If this intent isn't genocidal, what is it?

https://twitter.com/ytirawi/status/1727262445033386230?t=gP3sE8QCdp7-f3a0oXohag&s=19

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399212#Comment_121399212

No, we should talk about all the bad things, not just the bad things that involve Jews. What should not happen is the head of the UN saying stupid and factually incorrect things.

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399346#Comment_121399346

That would be ethnic cleansing. Thankfully it's not the policy of the Israeli government, though there are certainly some within it that hold such views. I'd go so far as to say that some of them are as extreme as Hamas.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399291#Comment_121399291

Are there any journalists left there? Has Israel not already vapourised them all?

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399346#Comment_121399346

Without going all Godwin's Law, this was the original intention of the Nazis before the Holocaust - simply to force all Jewish people to leave the country and never return.

brickster69

Holocaust survivor describes the Israel Palestine conflict as the longest ethnic cleansing operation of the 20th 21st centuries. A good one this lads.

https://twitter.com/DrLoupis/status/1725744863658799404

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121397378#Comment_121397378

Conspiracy theory nonsense here.

"It was all part of the plan by the shadow government or something..."

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399415#Comment_121399415

Yep, before they moved from ethnic cleansing to Genocide.

If the extremists in Israel get their way then it will be more like the Rohingya genocide by Myanmar where the proportion of the population killed was relatively low in comparison to the population displaced than, for example, the East Timor Genocide by Indonesia where up to 44% of the population was killed or Rwanda where 70% of the Tutsi population was killed, or Cambodia where 99% of the ethnic Vietnamese were killed or the ones nobody cares about like the genocides of indigenous peoples in Congo and Guatemala. In other words there's no need to go back to the 1940's, we've had plenty of genocides since... but there were no Jews involved in those ones so we didn't care.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121397454#Comment_121397454

You forgot to mention that in 1947 the international community under the UN and International Law agreed to take this land and give it to your neighbour.

What I would say is to get better leaders and stop fighting unwinnable fights that ultimately make the situation worse.

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399226#Comment_121399226

What, they want to exterminate all the Jews? That's Hamas you're thinking of.

The extremists in Israel have a fundamentalist absolutist bigoted murderous ideology based on the vile fundamentalist absolutist bigoted murderous in the Jewish and Christian holy books, just like many other holy books.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399456#Comment_121399456

You're strawmanning again.

I didn't say that the conflict was just for this outcome, but alluding to the fact that the US never misses an opportunity to take advantage of someone elses hardship for its direct gain.

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399460#Comment_121399460

I have absolutely no idea what point you're trying to make here.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399492#Comment_121399492

Tell us, how is the US 'gaining' in this situation?

Be explicit here.

markodaly

Hopefully, the deal will hold up and will pave the way for all the hostages taken on October 7th to be released.

Pity there was little to no marching in the streets for them, but anyhow..

Once they are released, the IDF can and should continue the war against Hamas.

As an aside, would people be happy to send Irish peacekeepers to Gaza under the UN?

It seems no one in the international community wants to touch it, ironic considering all the virtue signalling going on about it.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399352#Comment_121399352

Most people are talking about the behaviour of Israel not the behaviour of Jews.

When someone criticises Venezuela for example they are not criticising Catholics

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399489#Comment_121399489

Note the quotation marks. Its got all the hallmarks of Nazi ideology just directed elsewhere. You cannot deny that those quotes from Israeli government officials use the same language as 1930's Germany, can you?

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399498#Comment_121399498

That's unfortunate but I admire your honesty.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399518#Comment_121399518

You need me to explain specifically how America gains with respect to the message below? Seriously?

Maybe take some time and look in to the awarding of contracts in Irag 20 years ago and the statements post war as to what the focus was.

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399574#Comment_121399574

Absolutely. Also very similar to the language used in Rwanda in the decades leading up to the Genocide there.

Unfortunately both Hamas and large elements of the current Israeli government use similar rhetoric about each other.

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399560#Comment_121399560

I agree and I think that the behaviour of Israel is disgraceful. I question the motives of those who only criticise Israel. While it is behaving very badly there are other countries doing worse as we speak and not a word is said. Why is that?

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399530#Comment_121399530

Given the number of UN workers that Israel have killed (the UN themselves have said more of their staff have been killed here than in any conflict on the planet in the entire history of the organisation), no I wouldn't want Irish peacekeepers to be sent in there to be bombed by the IDF.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399560#Comment_121399560

A major reason why most people are talking about it is because Israel is a Jewish state.

And this is proven by the fact that most people don't talk about the same conduct when carried out by new-Jewish actors, in the Middle East and elsewhere in the world, as @Ulixes has documented.

There is no question therefore a major reason for the increase in 'volume' is because of anti-semitism.

And also, lazy one-sided comparisons to Nazis which border on anti semitic race baiting, which diminish what the Nazis actually did and tried to do to Jewish people.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399453#Comment_121399453

It is great that good men like this exist or we would never hear the truth of what's happening in Gaza. There's a good many here who should listen carefully to this brave man.

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399589#Comment_121399589

Maybe take some time to read up on the Marshall Plan. Maybe look at who the biggest donor to the UN's World Food Programme is. Then take a look at the World Bank (and please don't be one of those people who thinks that's all some sort of Capitalist conspiracy).

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399589#Comment_121399589

There are vast quantities of oil and gas approx 17 kilometres off the Gazan shore.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399623#Comment_121399623

A massive reason for this is because so many people are aware of the continued persecution of Palestinians over decades by Israel.

A lot of the protests worldwide have been led by indigenous people who are all to familiar with the experience of seeing your land occupied, or taken from under you with the death and suffering that goes along with that.

The funding Israel enjoys from the US and the support it enjoys from many large and influential countries means that this conflict is viewed differently than many conflicts that appear to be between comparatively equal parties (note I said many, not all). Given the history of the Jewish people, to see them behaving as they are doing, it is particularly noteworthy for lots of observers, leading them to get involved more in the discussion around the conflict.

Finally, all this aside, what have you done to initiate discussions on alternative conflicts. Anyone can start a thread on a topic here on Boards or elsewhere? Why are you always asking why others aren't discussing other conflicts, when you don't appear to be doing so either?

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399659#Comment_121399659

That's a heap of bullshit, how many of Cambodia, Rwanda, Congo, Indonesia, Guatemala etc got such unequivocal and public support to commit their crimes from the western community that we are part of?

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121398941#Comment_121398941

You didn't condemn the Israeli people in the video who were cheerleading for the incineration of Gaza or the numerous vile statements from the far right nationalists about Palestinians in Gaza. What can we conclude from this? Oh right you don't have to preface every comment with condemnation of these sorts of people. Do you see the hypocrisy of your position? You call for other people to do what you are incapable of doing because you can't brook any criticism of Israel.

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399676#Comment_121399676

And Shell own the majority of the drilling rights. That's British registers, headquartered and run Shell.

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399586#Comment_121399586

Ah yes, so instead of actually elaborating on your strange comparison of various genocides (is this justification? It'll be more like the Rohingya rather than Tutsi) then claims that because there's no Jews involved in those although I'm not sure how accurate that is considering the US, including Kissinger at least were happy to ignore the atrocities perputrated by the Khmer Rouge, "You should tell the Cambodians that we will be friends with them. They are murderous thugs but we won't let that stand in our way." https://gsp.yale.edu/case-studies/cambodian-genocide-program/us-involvement/united-states-policy-khmer-rouge-regime-1975

You decided to be condecending instead. Well done you.

Regardless, Kissinger, just like Israel, do not present for all Jews and any suggestion that people questioning and disputing the actions of Israel are doing so because the majority of those in power in Israel are Jewish is crude reductionism designed to stifle debate.

Tell me this, was the Bosnian genocide a genocide? Is that something you agree with? People killed en-masse, forcibly displaced and homes destroyed? 80,000 Bosniaks were killed during that, out of a population of 1,760,000 Bosniaks which is rougly 4.5% of their population and almost the entirety of the population displaced. That took place over 3 years.

As it currently stands, estimates in Gaza are over 75% of the population displaced, probably around 15,000 killed, most likely more once the rubble is cleared. That is 0.7% of their population killed in the space of about 6 and a half weeks. Following that week on week growth (we know this won't be the case with increasing risk of water bourne diseaes, starvation etc it will almost be parabolic within the next few weeks if nothing changes) after 3 years it would hit 15% of the Gazan population.

This is in the realms of hypothetical but the current rate of destruction, killing and displacement is on the path to genocide, just like your previous examples.

This has nothing to do with people being anti-semitic, anti-Jew or some other conspiracy and everything to do with watching a western aligned nation, one that people in the west would traditionally view as an ally, carrying out collective punishment after years of oppression and subjugation.

Were Hamas justified in what they done? No, of course not. Maybe people should consider the why behind it rather than being reactionaries. Questioning people not complaining about other atrocities is a non-arguement. Why are you posting in this thread and not posting about all these things? What is it about this situation you care so much about to be in here every day?

So you can take your condescension and take a long walk.