Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121417378#Comment_121417378

The only way to defeat the latter is through non military means. I am not sure they will achieve the former never mind the latter- especially if Bibi and his ilk somehow remain in power.

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121417378#Comment_121417378

The Americans managed to do just that with Imperial Japan in WWII. The Japanese had a similar ideology with regard to death for the Empire/Emperor, and that lead to things like Kamikaze pilots and civilians who would commit suicide en-masse when the Americans took an island they were on.

conorhal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121413830#Comment_121413830

LOL, and the Basque and Catalan regions? Spain won't have much of a leg to stand on when they unilaterally declare independence.... Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121417747#Comment_121417747

The seperatists are part of the Spanish government now and have been calling on this for a while. Barcelona just suspended ties themselves today

https://twitter.com/incontextmedia/status/1728437498395721856

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121417747#Comment_121417747

Im sure Morocco would like these back too.

Ludicrous stuff from the Spanish.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plazas_de_soberan%C3%ADa

brickster69

I bet they are turning in their graves now seeing what is happening today.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121417888#Comment_121417888

And they were welcomed with open arms..........

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121417919#Comment_121417919

Then turned on the people who welcomed them ..........

Be right back

Finally...

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121418447#Comment_121418447

Sarcasm. They clearly were not welcome 🙄

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121418465#Comment_121418465

More sarcasm 😉😉

rolling boh

Great to see Emily Hand released.

Purple Mountain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121418537#Comment_121418537

I just bawled my eyes out when I read it.

Thank God.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121417497#Comment_121417497

The next few months will tell a lot, but if you take ISIS for example (and Hamas is pretty much the same. They share the same brutal version of Islam) they were militarily defeated in Syria, yet they live on in Africa and Afghanistan. I think that the ideology will live on, in one guise or another, and the fight against them will continue. Non-military means will not defeat Hamas, no more than it defeated ISIS. Whatever hope there is, and peaceful means is the key here, as you say, for ordinary Palestinians.

Montage of Feck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121418587#Comment_121418587

I fully expecting to hear bad news, so to hear she's now safely back in Israel is fantastic and uplifting stuff.

Purple Mountain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121418605#Comment_121418605

So much could go wrong during any of the hostage swops.

It's very hard to get hopes up.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121418537#Comment_121418537

It's fantastic - even after hearing the news about her last week, I was fearful she might be dead anyway and it was just false hope.

cheese sandwich

Finally some good news after a pretty **** week.

And vindication for the diplomatic efforts of the DFA and Michéal Martin. Shows up the performative posturing of SF, PBP et al for the nonsense that it is

rolling boh

I was just waiting for the official word only then did I know it was true and she would be home with her family .Really delighted for her and her family .

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121418593#Comment_121418593

ISIS consider Hamas apostate, so no, not the same.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121417681#Comment_121417681

Yes, they did in both Germany and Japan, yet it failed in Afghanistan despite spending 20 years and billions (or was it trillions) of dollars? ) The main difference why it worked in Japan and Germany, but not in Afghanistan is that both Japan and Germany were society's that followed a central leadership, and what was decided at the very top, was accepted and acted upon by all of society. (Hitler in Germany, and the Emperor in Japan) Afghanistan was the complete opposite. Faced with a common enemy, Russia, they coordinated, but that was it. When it came to forming an independent state of Afghanistan, which the US had being preparing them for, it all collapsed at the first fence, and they reverted to their traditional Afghan ways. Different regions were ruled by the local warlords. But the minute the Taliban crossed the border back into Afghanistan, and Karzai fled, then it all fell apart into the fragmented Afghanistan that the Taliban were able to control. And this is what we have today. There is no central leadership in Islam, which can say do this or do that. It's all based on the Quran, and the various interpretations of it that decide which path to take, and thats that.

Strazdas

First photo of Emily reunited with her dad :

Be right back

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121418762#Comment_121418762

Fantastic..

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121418593#Comment_121418593

Yes, Non military means may not defeat the Hamas ideology but it could certainly weaken it by making it less appealing for Palestinians to embrace it if there is the real prospect of a better life turning away from militancy

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121418702#Comment_121418702

And the Wahhabi's consider everyone who is not a Wahhabi, as not being a true Muslim. You can take all of the different version's, each claiming to be the true followers of Islam, and that goes for each and every version that you can name. What makes any version different from other version's is the "brand" of Islam they follow. Some are peaceful, others are not. But the one thing ISIS and Hamas have in common is their sheer brutality and dedication to the destruction of anyone they consider enemies of Islam. Hamas are no different from the ISIS that paraded their prisoners, dressed in orange jump suits, before they beheaded them all in public, and in one case, they burned a Jordanian pilot alive in a cage. Hamas left the very same murderous message on the 7th. No different, except ISIS not wanting to hand over the mantle of being the "True" followers of Islam, hence ISIS considers Hamas as being apostates. They consider all Muslims as apostates, unless of course, they are ISIS. At heart, they are the very same murderous radical Islams that are fighting for the return of the caliphate. Just trying to outdo each other to become the "Best" followers of Allah. Their actions speak louder than words, and there's no difference between any Radical Muslims despite what they claim.

Montage of Feck

Well Michael Martin has shown himself to be a cut above his FG co consul as well as the screechy bluffers in opposition. Not sure how much influence Irish diplomats had in this, but as minister for foreign affairs was fair and diplomatic in his dealing with both sides on his recent trip to the middle east.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121418941#Comment_121418941

Yes, that's true. Quite a large nr of Muslims join radical groups because they are paid to do so, it's the only employment in the area they live in. Same goes for Palestinian's living in Gaza, massive unemployment and then along comes Hamas, money no object, jobs for the followers, which is a pretty easy sell, to fight against the hated enemy, Israel. Same thing the present day in Afghanistan. But yet, not every Muslim is happy to follow these radicals. Much anti-Hamas sentiment is suppressed violently within Gaza, same as anti-Taliban sentiment is suppressed in Afghanistan (and in the North of Afghanistan, there's still plenty of that.) So yes, if an alternative live could be provided, then I could see many Muslims following it.

Tell me how

A number of people have died in attacks by Israel during the ceasefire.

https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1728083466921693657?t=FsYKlNfU2dIigs5GhGq2AA&s=19

I always think these deaths must hurt particularly strongly for their families given they happened spring a time when both sides had promised not to attack.

batman75

Norman Finkelstein came across very well on the Piers Morgan show the other night. I believe he is regarded as the pre eminent expert on Gaza. Their will be no peace while Netanyahu is in power. If Israel resumes it's genocide after the release of hostages then it's international goodwill will continue to evaporate.

Prosperity for Palestinians is the only way to 'defeat' Hamas. Hamas can thrive because Palestinians are so oppressed. The greater the mass killings of Palestinians the greater the support for Hamas. It's a bit rich for Netanyahu to want to destroy Hamas considering Israel encouraged and financed Hamas in the early years as a counter measure to the PLO and to try and split the Palestinian people and encourage a form of civil war.

Finkelstein made an interesting point re the October 7th attacks. If people break out of a concentration camp where they have been interned for 20 years is it any wonder they lash out at their oppressor. If you treat people like animals is it any wonder if they act like animals. For the record I would condemn the October 7th attacks.

riffmongous

Thank god the hostage transfers have gone off so smoothly so far, I was quite worried early when there was a delay