Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432605#Comment_121432605

And doctors don't tell lies because they, like nurses, are healthcare professionals and so operate on a higher moral and ethic plain than the rest of us.

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432623#Comment_121432623

"Could you imagine how much we would hate the Brits if they had done to us what Israel is doing to Gaza right now?"

Or how much they'd hate us if we did what Hamas did last month. Imagine if the IRA had killed 250 people at Glastonbury and another 1000 or so in their homes in the same area.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432616#Comment_121432616

This is a bit different though. US cities and civilians weren't in rocket range of Afghanistan. The US could go home.

Where does Israel go home to?

Whether they like it or not, Israel and Palestinians are in it for the long haul.

You can just as easily make the case that if Israel showed weakness after October 7th, it would be seen as appeasement and lead to more attacks not just from Hamas but from other factions in the Middle East that hate Israel.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432623#Comment_121432623

I've heard this whole subject discussed recently (about why the British by contrast didn't carpet bomb nationalist areas in NI or behave much more violently) and a suggestion was that the British still had some respect for their Irish nationalist opponents - the Israelis seem to regard Palestinians as vastly inferior.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432623#Comment_121432623

Can you imagine how much the Brits would hate us if we'd carried out atrocities like October 7th, by the armed faction of the regime in charge of the territory? If that armed faction wanted to extinguish Britain from the map, and was subjecting major British cities to rocket barrages on a scale not seen since the Blitz?

They would not be "good as a whole" would they?

Your comparison falls down on every level.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432643#Comment_121432643

Of course there are British people who still hate the Irish because of things like the Birmingham and Guildford and Brighton bombings, Canary Wharf, Warrington, and so much else. I can understand that.

But those atrocities didn't happen in a vacuum.

Stating that is an entirely different thing from stating support for the Provos. I consider the Provos a nihilistic murder gang and I hate what they did. But groups like the Provos are the very likely outcome when you treat a people like shlt for decades, centuries.

Israel has treated the Palestinians like shlt since the 1940s. The conflict didn't start on October 7th, 2023. Atrocities like October 7th, 2023 do not happen in a vacuum.

Israel's cheerleaders simply do not acknowledge this. They outright deny historical cause and effect. It's a denial of reality and a rejection of truth.

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432399#Comment_121432399

Agreed alright, the thing is though once you start putting an actual number on it (the actual reality) it becomes much harder for the politicians to justify

cheese sandwich

The Irish Times (OK, Una Mullally, but they published it) manages to review Gig for Gaza without using the words “Israel” or “Hamas”.

It’s stuff like this that gives credence to the Israel President’s complaint that Irish people don’t care about what was done to Israelis by Hamas on Oct 7.

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/music/review/2023/11/29/gig-for-gaza-at-3arena-this-night-is-a-gift-of-hope-for-anyone-yearning-for-peace/

Also, utterly cringey headline on the article. I doubt that the gathering of a few hundred people in Dublin will have much impact on the military planning of either Israel or Hamas.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432595#Comment_121432595

I would be agree regarding heavy ordinance but I put my hands up and say I have no idea of how to solve this conflict. I only call out what I think is wrong and I think counterproductive.

nacho libre

https://news.walla.co.il/item/3625638

What is the gist of this article? Thanks in advance.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121431762#Comment_121431762

For me it's a sign of the pressure they(Hamas) are under. They are a spent force in northern Gaza.. They could be hoping that the longer the truce goes on the harder it is for Israel to resume the war. With this in mind the heads of Mossad and the CIA are in Qatar to discuss extending the truce

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432860#Comment_121432860

Helicopters you say ? Mind you it does sound like some in the background where this woman was hiding at the music festival. Probably Hamas propaganda

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1729646937060639208

amandstu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432679#Comment_121432679

"Israel has treated the Palestinians like shlt since the 1940s. The conflict didn't start on October 7th, 2023. Atrocities like October 7th, 2023 do not happen in a vacuum."

Can you show where mutual abuse between the two communities in and since the 40s can not be characterized as 6 of one/half a dozen of the other?

Include the Arab neighbours in that if you think the mutual disrespect balance has been too lopsided within the boundaries of ,say Mandated Palestine and onwards.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432679#Comment_121432679

Truth: Hamas invades Oct 7 and committed atrocities, from what can be seen, for the lulz. Maybe to derail Saudi/Israel closer relationship.

Truth: Ireland feels some comradeship with Palestinians because of antisemitic sentiment long a part of the teachings of the dominant force in Irish society until recently, the RCC. Perhaps a bunch of delusional, BDS inspired victimhood plays a role, too.

Truth: No Palestine in the 1940's. It's a post-1970 concept. And unlike all the previous rules of that region, only Israel has allowed Palestinians to be part of government, vote, etc. Not like the Ottomans/Jordanians/Syrians did anything but treat them like crap.

scottser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432660#Comment_121432660

I'd put that down to religious exceptionalism on both sides. Israelis generally, and successive Israeli governments in particular, have no regard for anyone who isn't Jewish. Non-Jews have scant rights under Israeli law and the Jewish faith considers gentiles to be 'half a person'. Muslims also consider non-believers to be kafirs and were happy to massacre non-believers en masse. We all know what Christians have done to infidels and heretics in the past, too.

Religions that claim they are the chosen people are going to be very disappointed come judgement day, having left a legacy of death, persecution, hatred and deceit behind them. So next time someone claims they know the will of God, go ahead and give them a wedgie.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432801#Comment_121432801

If you don't know what is right, how do you know what is wrong?

brickster69

UN security meeting on Palestine just starting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfAa1GiNdgM

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432121#Comment_121432121

No, I wouldn't class Spain as a neighbour.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121433194#Comment_121433194

I don't know what are the correct efforts to combat a group like Hamas but I do know that if your methods involve killing multiples of civilians for each militant then your methods are immoral. So I do know the difference between what is right and wrong morally. I'm not against Israel fighting and destroying Hamas.

amandstu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121433194#Comment_121433194

We can think we know what is right on the micro scale but not know it when we zoom out to the broader picture?

TomTomTim

"No one supports Hamas"

https://twitter.com/yashar/status/1729630529199432095

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432679#Comment_121432679

See that's the false premise; there were no "Palestinians" in the 1940's. In the 1840's there were around 300,000 people made up of Arabs (85%), Christians(10%) and Jews (5%) living in what became Mandated Palestine but was then part of the Ottoman Empire and had previously never been a geographical Nation. By the 1900's, mainly due to the inflow of Jews and Zionist money, the population of Jews and Arabs had increased significantly. Then the First World War happened and the area came under a League of Nations Mandate, administered by the UK and France. Then there was a series bloody conflicts of what in reality were the ebbs and flows of a Civil War between the Jews and Arabs, both off whom were Palestinian. Then the League of Nations and the victors of the Second World War proposed a partition of Mandated Palestine into Arab and Jewish countries. The Jews accepted that but the surrounding Arab countries in the area didn't and in 1948 they invaded and annexed what is now the West Bank and Gaza. Israel annexed the rest of what was to have been Arab Mandated Palestine but for the most part it was desert.

In short everyone in the region has been treating the Palestinian Arabs like **** since the end of Ottoman rule. Mind you it was a walk in the park in comparison to the conquest of the Arabian Gulf by Ibn Saud when the British and French backed a tribe of fundamentalist lunatics so that the Hashemites wouldn't rule the region and pan-Arab nationalism wouldn't take hold. The level of savagery unleashed was up there with Rwanda and the worst excesses of the Second World War. The locals have good cause not to like the West and to resent anything that sounds or smells like colonialism but many of their leaders don't. Many of them were put in power by Western countries and are still kept in power by them now. The Israeli treatment of the Palestinian Arabs is nothing special in the region. What does mark them out is that religious divide.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121433229#Comment_121433229

Was the bombing of Hiroshima wrong? It was necessary to bring an end to the war, it killed 70,000 civilians, with maybe a tiny fraction of military killed.

That is why we have international law and the rules of war to determine what is allowed.

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432860#Comment_121432860

I take my news from sources which have an editor and a proper structure. I don't place any value on social gossip (AK social media).

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121433143#Comment_121433143

That second one anyway is utter conjecture. I would counter that Irish people feel a kinship because they know what it's like to be forcibly removed from their land by force and then treated as second class citizens for generations while being gaslit by their oppressors.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121433321#Comment_121433321

If I were to say yes would you advocate the nuking of Gaza . No you wouldnt because a world war is a completely different scenario to the one we are seeing in palestine/israel. If you think it is acceptable to kill more civilians than militants in such an operation and how that will result in Palestinians wanting to make peace with Israel argue that point.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121429821#Comment_121429821

What organisations are these?

Care to link them to us please?

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121433178#Comment_121433178

Does anyone really think there'll be a judgement day? Do we not know enough by now to know that there's no such thing as the supernatural?

My daughter once asked me what the difference was between a religion and a cult. I thought about it for a minute and then said "Time". If you read the writings of Roman intellectuals in the second Century they talk about Christianity the same way we talk about Scientology.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121433272#Comment_121433272

Useful idiots the lot of them

We see the same narrative taking shape here.

"October 7th wasn't that bad"

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121433359#Comment_121433359

That happened to the Jews as well.