Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

tayto lover

Israel's War on Children ramps up.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121446039#Comment_121446039

Plenty of future Hamas recruited after that.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121440980#Comment_121440980

Peace talks. never mind an actual peace, does not suit Hamas....the more havoc, death and destruction the better for them. They need to be able to show Israel in the worst possible light, to whip up condemnation against them, the more the better, and their plan is working.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121442393#Comment_121442393

I've worked in many similar situations (Syria, Afghanistan, Libya etc.) and with Palestinians also, great people to work with as individuals. In all these places, I've not had my throat slit, but for sure, there were people around who would have slit it if they had the chance. I've worked with people who did in fact go on to kill later on. The moral is that it's not the 99% you need to watch out for it's the 1% (or even less)

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121446087#Comment_121446087

I'm not saying Hamas represents all Palestinians, even all Gazans. They represent Hamas (and their masters like Iran.) The Gazans need to represent themselves, not through Hamas. Find a different way, unless they want to keep up the status quo.

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121446039#Comment_121446039

Of course I'm winging about those words being spoken here. I don't want to be living among this kind of people. How long will it take to go from words to deeds? Have we learned nothing?

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121445693#Comment_121445693

So because Israel are 'better at war' ( for want of a better phrase) that makes you anti Israel?

If Israel sat back and allowed Hamas to keep firing rockets at them, keep kidnapping their people and holding them hostage, then would your sympathy lie with Israel?

rolling boh

I think nearly all believe that Hamas have to be beaten but Israel have the ability to be a lot more precise in their pursuit of Hamas .The statements from Israel about trying to minimise civilian casualties is simply not true and lends weight to the argument that they really want to eliminate as many Palestinians as the can using the war on Hamas as an excuse .

Rezident

From the river to the sea...

What does it really mean?

The United Kingdom’s Labour Party suspended Member of Parliament Andy McDonald for using the phrase “between the river and the sea” in a speech at a pro-Palestinian rally.

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121446341#Comment_121446341

Care to show your posts of outrage when Israelis said it?

NSAman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121446396#Comment_121446396

Israel are better at war because the US pays for everything.

You do realise that Gaza is surrounded by a massive fence? The most heavily surveilled fence on the planet?

you do also realise that Israel also has “kidnapped” people from Gaza, except they call them prisoners?

You also realise that Israel have unlimited latest weaponry? Sending rockets into Gaza a territory that has no water/electricity/fuel without Israel’s say so?

it’s like David and Galliath.

my sympathies lie with innocents on both sides.

Do I agree with Israel’s policies or forcible removal of property rights? No!

Do I agree with Israel’s policies on Palestinian elimination? Do I agree with shooting kids and women and men in cold blood because they are just Palestinians? No.

Likewise I do not agree with Hamas causing death in Israel.

Israel its politicians and some settlers are behaving like, they themselves were treated a few short years ago.

of all the people they should understand what they are doing.

Rezident

"From the river to the sea...'

The Football Association in the UK has banned players from using the slogan on their private social media accounts.

Seems to be a good idea to ban the slogan that is popular with Hamas, the hospital-based death cult. Sad and shameful to see so many screaming it, in their hatred, today on the streets of Dublin. The message was depressingly clear.

Seems to be a lot of hatred on the streets of Dublin these days. Much easier to blame all problems on some outsiders rather than getting your own house in order. I predict Dublin to significantly deteriorate even further with all of this hatred. No good can come from it.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121446421#Comment_121446421

Which version? The Israeli version.... Well here's a visual aid:

Pretty self explanatory there. It's even colour coded.

The Palestinian version, I've already posted a comment earlier with a link to a guardian article with various meanings of it.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121446269#Comment_121446269

Yes, and there have been anti-Hamas outbursts, which were quickly suppressed. it's the perfect storm situation for them, and Israeli bombing is driving even moderate (and possibly anti-Hamas) Palestinians deeper into Hamas clutches. Before Hamas attacked Israel on the 7th there had to be many Palestinians who knew from past experience that there would be an Israeli response, as has always been the case in the past, but with the responses graduated to match the level of the attack. But there's no going back from the brutalities of the 7th. Just a thought, supposing that the Israelis' saw the attack on the 7th for what it was, and decided no, we are not going to fall into your trap. We will not respond. I wonder what the outcome would have been like then? A Hamas so discredited that it would be the end of them Globally? Too hot a brand even for the Iranians?

Rezident

Austrian police took a similar stance, banning a pro-Palestine protest on the basis of the chant and claiming that the slogan, originally formulated by the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), had been adopted by the armed group Hamas.

German authorities declared the slogan forbidden and indictable.

As the slogan is now taken by Hamas to mean: 'Kill all the Jews in Israel' (is that just for starters?), why were so many people in Dublin today screaming a slogan that is widely understood to mean: Kill all Jews?

You know it is taken to mean this, so why do you want to be seen saying (screaming, roaring) such hatred?

How do you feel inside when you say it? Some of you looked very angry today. I can still see the angry girl with the loudspeaker screaming her hatred in Dublin. I feel like you are making Dublin, and the world, a worse place.

Would you not rather make the world a better place? One with less hatred? It really is the very last thing we need more of right now.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121446495#Comment_121446495

So, yes, basically because Israel are better at defending themselves and at 'war' you are anti Israel.

the big fence is called a border, lots of countries have them, there's one between Gaza and Egypt.

it's exactly because of the way Israel has been treated since the beginning of their existence and the way the Jewish people have always been treated, that they behave as they do. They have to be 'better ' then everyone else, in order to survive.

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121446439#Comment_121446439

I'll try again: I don't want people cheering genocide living in the same country as I do, I care about this way more than I care about what happens in the middle east, simply because these people are a threat to us and to our society. No one is doing anything to them here, but jews are again, almost 100 years later, felling unsafe in Europe.

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121446396#Comment_121446396

Some people seem to be incapable of having any sympathy for Israel. If they stop fighting back, they will be annihilated. Hamas have said over and over that they won't stop attacking them. Not sure what Israel are supposed to do to keep them happy tbh. Say "ok we give up. All of us Jews will leave and you can have the land back" or what like? What is their solution? They never come up with any besides Israel stopping fighting. Never Hamas, just Israel.

Tell me how

The outrage over the 'From the River to the Sea' phrase is gaslighting on an international level.

The same phrase is used in Likuds founding manifesto but there is no suggestion of that being inappropriate by the people using it to justify the butcher of Palestinians. This despite it going on to say that in that area there would 'only be Israeli sovereignty'.

A genocide is being carried out in front of our eyes. Israel is now bombing in to oblivion the area they told people to move to for the last 6 weeks.

I feel such disgust for the people who are ok with this and I can't describe what I think of those who encourage it.

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121446580#Comment_121446580

Even taken at its most benign meaning of not genociding Jewish people, that chant means Israel, the country, not existing anymore. If a person is chanting for literally the only Jewish nation in the world not to exist, they might want to ask themselves why, or whether that is a good thing for the world or for jews.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121446704#Comment_121446704

I've given detailed solutions that if they were adopted by all groups could lead to peace, I've posted it several times so saying people never come up with solutions is just plain false. These solutions included the targeting and removal of Hamas.

Israel is supported by the US, and several of the other most powerful and influential countries on the planet, they are at no risk of being annihilated.

This conflict was facilitated by Nethanyahu's desire to see Hamas enabled and emboldened as Israel continued to persecute Palestinians, steal their lands and ignore any sort of international condemnation for their actions.

They are doing nothing at this point but recruiting for future waves of Hamas fighters with every child they now shoot in the head and every Dr and journalist they drop a bomb on. And all while genocide apologists say that Hamas is the problem. We're watching Israel put the support and security of Jewish people worldwide at risk for the next 10-20 years and everyone who is supporting their disproportionate violence is complicit in this. Everyone.

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121446609#Comment_121446609

" I don't want people cheering genocide living in the same country as I do"

You're not so calm down .

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121446520#Comment_121446520

Is there a legal basis for that ban

Didn't Gary Lineker prevail in a similar situation

Weepsie

From the river to the sea was not solely about Israel and never was when it was created. It was also about interference fo other Arab nations. It has a pretty benign origin and can still be benign in peaceful protests such as those we see in most major cities at the moment.

Nobody is calling for the elimination of the state of Israel, or nobody that anybody is giving a moments thought too. There are some outliers there, extremists nutters, but they also want to see all of the Muslims eliminated too in my experience because they're not just antisemitic, they're anti islam, xenophobes, racists ,etc etc

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121446704#Comment_121446704

Do you honestly believe if Israel stopped fighting/bombing Gaza for say a week, a month that Israel would be overrun by 50k Hamas charging into Tel Aviv slaughtering people?

All Israel have to do is defend their border and Hamas are not going to be pulling another 7 Oct again. Israel is not under an imminent threat from Hamas. I'm baffled how you think Israel could be annihilated by Hamas. Is that the justification you use when you see the thousand of dead children in Gaza, Israel had to do that because any second Hamas is going to annihilate Israel.

It's like a mad panic to level Gaza ASAP. Dropping 2000lb bombs as fast as they can reload the jets. Even the Americans were surprised that 90% of the bombs dropped the first week were 2000lb, they have smaller ones which are more suitable to reduce collateral damage. Assuming Israel were looking to reduce colleratal damage.

Don't get me wrong Hamas has to go, there's zero chance of peace in Gaza or Israel with Hamas still in the picture. But a calmer, more clinical way of eliminating Hamas has to be key. Leveling an apartment block killing 100 civilians to kill 1 Hamas fighter is not the bloody way to do it.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121446722#Comment_121446722

We all know why the Jewish religion was the only one in the world to be granted its own country.

It should never have happened but rather all other countries should have been encouraged to welcome support Jewish people who already existed with their own community.

The same people who are willing for countries to go to war to prevent the foundation of an Islamic Caliphate justifying the butchering of Palestinians to somehow safeguard a Jewish state is just bewildering.

412 US Representatives voted last week that anti-zionism equals antisemitism. If they feel that strongly about it, do you think they should give up 6% of the state of Montana to create a New Israel of the same size? At least then they won't have to contend with neighbours annoyed at how they persecute and invade them.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121446766#Comment_121446766

Hamas is the excuse.

Genocide is the goal.

Israel has no interest in peace, only the redundancy of the 2 state conversation through the obliteration of the Palestinian people.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121446609#Comment_121446609

Are they? There's actually been quite a few Jewisj people at the Dublin and London protests with "Jews against genocide" banner.

There's been rhetoric directed at the state of Israel and it's leaders, but there's been no overy antisemitism or general anti Jewish sentiment.

They're not anti Jewish protests

They're protests against the mass killing of 1000s of women and children, the continued displacement of people from their land and the general had it up to here with forcing 2 million people to live in what is basically a prison state. All of this carried out by the instruments of a sovereign state.

Fr D Maugire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121446601#Comment_121446601

As has been pointed out to you before, it was the Zionists wish to go and create a state in that part of the world with full knowledge that everyone there was opposed to the creation of such a state. As was discussed in the last few days, the great powers of the time simply ignored the recommendations of a Commission of Enquiry in 1919 that suggested that the idea of a Zionist state in the region was a non-runner. Everyone in that region was always opposed for obvious reasons, but it was western powers who pushed it through. The Zionists were fighting with the locals long before the creation of Israel and knew they would have to fight for their existence from day 1. Pretending this was some completely unexpected or unjust thing for Israel is just silly. Ultimately it was their choice.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121446601#Comment_121446601

So, yes, basically because Israel are better at defending themselves and at 'war' you are anti Israel.

BS

Link

Egypt warned Israel days before Hamas struck, US committee chairman says

Not to mention Nethanyahu's strategy with Hamas

Link

Netanyahu emboldened Hamas over the years

Another thread that contributed to this moment is the way in which Netanyahu has dealt with Hamas over his years in power.

"He didn't have a straight-out policy and the prime minister obviously now denies it in hindsight," Schneider said. "But we know as reporters who have been following this for many years. They wanted to weaken the Palestinian Authority."

"Netanyahu, in order to get Mahmoud Abbas to be smaller and to humiliate him politically, they managed to give Hamas some sort of leverage," Schneider said.

Israel isn't defending itself, it is butchering Palestinians.