Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447438#Comment_121447438

If my children were killed in the manner we've seen in these past weeks, I would want nothing more than to inflict the same on the person who killed them.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447449#Comment_121447449

Ah apologies I thought you meant other countries should help stop hamas.

I cant suggest a way to stop a terrorist group like Hamas as I'm no anti terrorist expert. Any other way is better then killing multiple children for every enemy combatant. It's worrying that Israel despite these results have continued using the same methods and that the Israeli population hasn't objected to them.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447432#Comment_121447432

Your post makes no sense.

How can Israel have a ceasefire while still attacking ?

Thats not a ceasefire. It is literally the exact opposite of a ceasefire so in your first two points you have already contradicted yourself and removed any credibility.

Why didnt the Allies just take out the Nazi leadership if its the obvious thing to do? Didnt Germans want to live in safety and freedom? Apparently it is how you defeat one army like any other.

In your list, it just assumes Hamas and its allies will sit there passively doing nothing while everyone else puts plans in motion against them to target Hamas and remove them.

It is no solution at all.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447474#Comment_121447474

That's why I reckon Hamas will be actually just as strong after all this ends. They will have more recruits every day the bombs rain down and innocent people die. If Israel treated the Palestinians like human beings instead of human animals they would do better. Stop brutalising them and maybe they will start showing more respect. You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447458#Comment_121447458

It's your biased opinion that I am wrong.

Nethanyahu on how supporting Hamas would help Israel prevent a Palestinian state. Link

“Whoever is against a Palestinian state should be for transferring the funds to Gaza, because maintaining a separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza helps prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state,” The Jerusalem Post quoted Prime Minister Netanyahu as saying in 2019.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447488#Comment_121447488

There's a fcuking gigantic difference between the indiscriminate dropping of 1000's of pounds of bombs and the focused targeting of individuals using special forces or the likes. We've had people on here today saying that the shooting of kids in Palestine by the IDF didn't constitute breaking the ceasefire because the terms of the ceasefire didn't specifcally say that that was included.

And if you're comparing targeting Nazi leadership in the 1940's with this 1/4 of the way in to the 21st century as Israel tells Palestinians not to resist using drones, I don't know what to tell you.

And the allies did attempt to assassinate Hitler, operation Foxley was one such plan.

I'm not doing the same thing again tonight in explaining every minute thing to you so you can take or leave my post as it is unless you want to offer reasonable counter points or alternative solutions.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447476#Comment_121447476

I agree it's far from ideal, or in anyway something that anyone wants. But that's the problem, how do they stop Hamas? There is no doubt that stopping them would be beneficial for Israelis and Palestinians alike. But how will that happen? Netanyahu is definitely not the answer

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447505#Comment_121447505

That's why I don't buy the narrative that Israel is not trying to wipe out Palestine, but only target Hamas.

Even the ardent Israel supporters, Tommy Robinson and the likes make a living on the messaging that defending ones own country is the paramount calling. Same in US with right wing conservatives who talk about defending their culture from the invading immigrants. The implication being that fighting people they see as invaders is acceptable.

And yet here, they cheer Israel on just because their opponents are on a lower level on the Race Pyramid in their eyes.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447506#Comment_121447506

I'm no fan of Netanyahu, but how do you stop a terrorist organisation, intent on annihilating Israel?

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447532#Comment_121447532

I mean even calling it far from ideal is a bit pithy, though im sure you didnt mean it to sound that way. I wouldn't justify the hamas massacre because of perceived injustices against the Palestinians so why do Israeli supporters try to underplay the civilian deaths in Gaza, especially death of children by their operations.

There seems a lot of selective outrage at the killing of civilians depending on whose side they are on.

Israel compared the 7 October attack to their 911 but they should remember there was alot of anti American sentiment for a number of years among the general population in many friendly countries because of the brutality of their response. Israel will no doubt claim victory when this operation ends but this will colour international opinion of them for many years.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447542#Comment_121447542

You show that you are willing to support a path to a two state solution.

You don't antagonize through the use of blockades, nuisance security checkpoints, segregated roads and settlement encroachment and the likes.

You support the PLO given that they only narrowly lost the elections 17 years ago to Hamas and who are not driven to violence as Hamas are.

We know in Ireland that peace finally came not because all those who were intent on violence were removed, they weren't but with the signing of the Good Friday Agreement, the majority chose the peaceful path and the minority were left to form the Real IRA. Still violent, still inflicted pain and death, but much less so and ultimately it was possible to manage that risk. And so peace came about.

NSAman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121446601#Comment_121446601

So Palestine is a country? Could you please explain that to the Israeli Government ?

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447562#Comment_121447562

The problem is hamas will never choose peace. Ever. They keep saying this over and over, I don't why you aren't listening to them.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447562#Comment_121447562

Does any party in Palestinian areas that support a 2 State solution have any chance of political success.

No.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447523#Comment_121447523

You are a million miles away now from what you originally started with.

A ceasefire that isnt a ceasefire.

The Allies didnt and couldnt just end the war by taking out the Nazi leadership. It did not work out that way did it? They had to fight to Berlin. So your own example already discredits your own idea.

You were the one who used vague phrases like army like any other yet cant provide any actual examples and now shift the goalposts in time - yet still referenced Hitler when it suited you.

Why hasnt Russia declared a ceasefire and ended the Ukraine war by targeting Ukrainian leadership with drones and special forces?

Why have conventional forces at all if wars can be fought this way by an "army like any other" so easily?

You dont have to explain things in 'minute' detail. Your solution fails at the first hurdles - nevermind minute details it is devoid of any detail.

Zero attempt to understand that Hamas has agency and isnt going to passively allow itself to be targeted by Israel et al. Zero attempt to explain how Palestinians just hold these elections and remove Hamas.

Those arent minute details. Those are deal breakers.

It is not any solution just a list of fantasy aspirations.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447561#Comment_121447561

I genuinely don't mean it to sound pithy, it's hard to describe. It's not ideal, it's very unwelcome, the loss of innocent lives is horrendous. I'm not trying to downplay the suffering of innocent Gaza civilians at all, I never would.

Gazan citizens are in a terrible situation, they can't be seen to go against Hamas, because they will be killed by them. They are stuck in an area where the chances of being killed by Israelis are unbelievably high. They really are innocent victims. I honestly believe that the best thing for them and Israel is the demise of Hamas. But I don't believe civilians in Gaza could ever assist in that, because of the risks against them

So what is the answer?

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447569#Comment_121447569

There's no doubt a few in Hamas leadership who feel that way. The same exists in Israeli leadership with a view towards Palestine, and they say it just as loudly. Why don't you listen to them? But only one side has an army, a navy, an airforce, of the most renowned intelligence agencies in the world and billions of dollars annually from the US.

And we've seen extreme radicals in the IRA, FARC, ETA bring their use of violence to an end. The vast majority of people in Palestine, including those who make up the numbers of Hamas want nothing more than peace and security in which to live their lives.

Hamas crept in to power in 2006, they can be sidelined again if the will was there. But I've already shown how Nethanyahu didn't want that.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447562#Comment_121447562

But Israel have shown they were willing to support a 2 state solution, and they were attacked by suicide bombs and the likes from Hamas

Danzy

Looks like there is pushback against Israel from an activist in Paris tonight.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447587#Comment_121447587

Ficjing hell, you really can't see any situation outside of looking through a western prism.

Not to burst your Churchill bubble but they just might have their own perspectives, outlook and views.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447584#Comment_121447584

Unfortunately I have no idea. My advice on military or anti terrorism tactics would be useless. But even with a cursory knowledge of any of the anti colonist wars in Africa or Asia it is obvious that political objectives can't be won on the battlefield especially if it involves large numbers of civilian death. Hamas may disappear but those that follow them may be even worse.

The longer this operation continues the more damage it does to Israel.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447581#Comment_121447581

Yeah, I'm not doing this again with you. I'm not going to explain everything to you in minute detail when you think the world of 2023 is the same as the world of 1940 despite all the technological advances.

Russia tried to assassinate Zelensky by the way. You're 0 for 2 with your 'what abouts'.

And your comment about why didn't Russia declare a ceasefire just reinforces for me to not engage with you on this any more. I'm out.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447609#Comment_121447609

Lol. There's a hell of a lot of evidence to suggest the Western Prism is thinking you can bomb your way to a desired solution. Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq are things you might consider when you are accusing people of being blinkered.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447589#Comment_121447589

Not since Nethanyahu has been on the scene. He has said so himself.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447589#Comment_121447589

Do you believe they are still willing to support a 2 state solution now? Looks like they are actively destroying Gaza and reclaiming the West Bank now. Talk of a 'security buffer' for Gaza post war. Probably just a new term for a land grab.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447432#Comment_121447432

You really are sending out mixed messaging re Hamas at this stage. In one post you’re saying nobody wants them to succeed, now you’re saying the “vast majority” of Hamas are “like any other people”. What does this even mean in the context of October 7th? Are they extremists, moderates, or what?

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447589#Comment_121447589

But they were talking through their backsides each time, because they've never stopped annexing land for settlers who want to return.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447612#Comment_121447612

I agree it's doing terrible damage to Israel, but I'm guessing from their perspective they cannot do anything other than what they are currently involved in. Netanyahu is a major block for sure.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447634#Comment_121447634

I honestly wouldn't know, but I could understand why they wouldn't, after 50 off years of agreeing to solutions and still being attacked by those that don't agree. What can they do?

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447635#Comment_121447635

I said practically nobody outside Hamas wants them to succeed. And I said most Hamas members want to be able to live a life that is safe and free with a chance to be prosperous, like the vast amount of people on the planet. I suspect most of them have joined Hamas because of Israel's actions.

What I've written here is pretty much exactly the same as I wrote on separate posts previously. If you think that is mixed messaging, I don't know what to say to you.