Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121481628#Comment_121481628

Well the "disregard" is hardly equal to the actions of the Israelis, they are not bombing them, dehousing them and starving them out after all.

I never said they care in that post, not the leaders of the countries anyway.

I think the feeling of public there for Palestinians is genuine.

Leaders of countries "caring" is not the same as further hatred engendered now by what Israel is doing potentially being useful to the wrong types of leader (and dangerous) in future.

brickster69

Jeffrey Sachs on ethnic cleansing, Genocide convention and complicity. ( 15 minutes onwards )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN6Rykw2364

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121481454#Comment_121481454

I'd like to see Gallant take over, he is most likely to replace his arch enemy Bibi and be PM in time.

He is pragmatic but focused on goals as well.

Israel arguably got a kick in the ass in 2006, underprepared, troops not resourced properly, constrained in how to fight. It still hit Hezbollah very hard and brought Lebanon to the edge of collapse.

Now, Lebanon is verging on failed State, no senior job can be filled unless Hezbollah put one of their own in, so the country is rudderless, the economy on life support and directionless.

Hezbollah certainly are a very capable. Large and well resourced force, a real threat and fighting them will be costly and brutal for Israel.

Yet that is precisely why they must be shoved back from the border, you can't have a force that size, committed to the extermination of yids, fags and whores etc etc ready to come over the border.

You and a few others here might find that prospect tantalizing but the aforementioned are not willing to go along to be slaughtered, the turnout of women of women to fight in the IDF is at an all time record, they know what they are up against and what the likes of you would be willing to let happen to them.

Forcing Hezbollah back to a distance will probably cost thousands of Israeli lives, it will also mean that Beirut is an empty ruin, that every facet of the Lebanese state is hit, that everything related to Hezbollah is hit, that 30km from the border becomes an empty buffer zone. Lebanon will probably end as a State, not far of it anyway.

The care shown in Gaza will not be applicable due to the speed and urgency of stopping hezbollah.

What choice does Israel have if Hezbollah do not pull back. None, at all. Waiting for an attack is not peace.

Lebanons only chance to survive, regardless of Israel's needs is that they destroy Hezbollah, who are intent on completely controlling it and largely do already. The other groups in Lebanon need to join in the fight or just quit and hand over everything to Hezbollah and get it over with.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121481478#Comment_121481478

Hezbollah launched the rockets.

Lebanon are a victim of Hezbollah as well.

Hezbollah are in control of most of Lebanon and are one finally push from not even pretending to share power.

The Lebanese army and other groups in that society must avail of this opportunity to rise up against Hezbollah and destroy them once and for all.

Either that or just make Nasrallah leader of the State and make it official.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121481822#Comment_121481822

That is genocidal. Israel lies that the phrase "from the river to the sea" as used by supporters of Palestinians calls for genocide. But here they are unironically and genuinely using the meaning they themselves have mendaciously ascribed to the phrase.

That tweet is a chilling propaganda call for the extermination of the entire Palestinian population. It is Nazi-like.

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121481983#Comment_121481983

I didn't say that they were equivalent.

The feelings of the public here for Palestinian Arabs is genuine. It's the lack of genuine concern for those suffering as badly or worse in other conflicts that puzzles me.

I don't think there is anyone here who doesn't care about and acknowledge the suffering which is being endured by the population of Gaza. I think most people regard the actions of the IDF as, as the very least, disproportionate. The disagreement comes in the discussion about the culpability of Hamas for originating and then sustaining the conflict.

StringerBell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121481718#Comment_121481718

Of course, but since this thread is to do with the current Israeli ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people and the moral West doing nothing I didn't feel the need to cover every example (current and historical) to ask the question.

That the world leaders don't care or that there is no political upside to doing the right thing is the problem, not the answer.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121482061#Comment_121482061

I think there is acknowledgement of the suffering of the public in Gaza in the public and on this thread. I think the main point of contention though on this thread is that alot of pro-Israeli posters are not calling on the Israeli government to cease their actions or even change their methods that is causing these disproportionate casualty rates. There is still plenty of posters using the phrase "this war" or referring to past wars to justify the casualty rates.

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121482134#Comment_121482134

In my opinion the current Israeli offensive is 1) not in the medium term interest of Israel, 2) is resulting in grossly excessive civilian deaths and 3) will not destroy Hamas.

For those reasons I think that Israel should cease or significantly change it's tactics.

It's hard to know what the best alternative is as they cannot leave Hamas intact as a political or military organisation but what's happening now is a disaster for all concerned.

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121482083#Comment_121482083

My question is why do people expect the world to care about this conflict when we have shown little or no interest or care in other far bloodier recent conflicts?

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121482061#Comment_121482061

It was public in Arab world, in Israel's neighbours in particular, I was referring to, rather than us (and other people less affected by this).

As regards the prominence of this particular conflict vs others, well of course it involves the US (as Israel's backer, and trusty shield no matter what they get up to), the Jews, the Holocaust (indirectly), a piece of land which is also very important to the big 2 religions of the world etc. etc.

There's a whole load of stuff mixed up in it making it attractive for all kinds of people who really have no stake at all in it (e.g. Evangelical Christians in the US, the far left types that view the US as the root of all evil) to "glom" onto and pay attention.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121481893#Comment_121481893

Grand, now tell me what exactly what you plan on doing about it, except from expressing outrage at Israel here on Boards?

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121482174#Comment_121482174

David McWilliams wrote an interesting article recently about how both sides have been very good at publicising their case in the western media and making it a mainstream talking point. The other bloody conflicts are receiving much less coverage because they have no nobody to advocate for them and the media in the West is far less invested.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121482006#Comment_121482006

The likes of me.. Unlike you I am not an apologist for either side. You continue to post the IDF line verbatim despite this being a war and the IDF having a track record of being less than truthful. You also downplay the murder of civilians because you place more value on the lives of Israelis than you do of Palestinians. Describing the IDF of having taken great care in Gaza is perverse when you see the amount of civilians that have been killed in Gaza.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121482287#Comment_121482287

That's a cheap shot. Exactly how are those against Israel's action realistically going to stop them doing this? Unless someone here is a senior representative of the US government nothing we say or do will have any effect.

Antipathetic

There is something we can do as consumers and that is to boycott Israeli products, this app should help those who want to avoid purchasing products from companies with links to Israel.

Perhaps if enough people boycotted Israeli products and companies Israel would be forced to suspend the current genocide of Palestinians due to their economy not being able to sustain the cost of their current occupation of Gaza.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bashsoftware.boycott

Unfortunately, I don't believe the app is available on Apple due to Apple removing it from their app store.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121482287#Comment_121482287

I've done what I can. Donated to MSF. Telephoned the US embassy and the Israeli embassy and encouraged others to do so. Not much else I can do but if anyone comes up with a good suggestion then i'm all ears. What have you done?

brickster69

UN General assembly vote on Tuesday on a ceasefire. We will see if anyone else want's to be looked upon as a pariah state.

https://www.arabnews.com/node/2423676/middle-east

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121482663#Comment_121482663

Excellent suggestion. I'll check the names of products they supply.

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121482663#Comment_121482663

The boycott has been working well in other places this last month or so. Quite a few places shut down already, a few hundred million people get involved and they will soon notice it.

StringerBell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121482174#Comment_121482174

So it wasn't meant as an answer to my question.

Okay thanks for the clarification.

Astartes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121482663#Comment_121482663

This is a great little app.

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121482815#Comment_121482815

What was your question?

I missed the question mark.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121481453#Comment_121481453

Yes, but given a choice, I'll pick a city with ordinary low-level buildings, and the population spread out, and ability to move around rather than high level buildings, with hundreds of occupants, and absolutely no place to escape to. One bomb hit on a high-rise building can cause multiple deaths, over a hit on a single low-level building. And that goes a long way to explaining the difference in the numbers of those killed. One building with 500 in it, or 50 buildings with 10 people in each, requiring 50 bombs. (Figures are for example, but you get the point anyway)

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121482636#Comment_121482636

Exactly, unless you have friends in high places, not a lot can be done. Thats my take on it too, and that's what I said, so call it a cheap shot if you like, but at least it's an honest cheap shot, and one you have mentioned yourself. Now any realistic suggestions?

brickster69

Egypt and Mauritania invoke Article 337 which basically overrides the security council vote the other night. Meaning 2/3rds majority needed for it to be binding and abstentions don't count.

https://twitter.com/huwaidaarraf/status/1734061078517002331

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121482761#Comment_121482761

Good for you!! Well done, and tell me what you have done about all the other wars going on where thousands of women and children have been killed and are still being killed? Yemen, Afghanistan (Thanks to the Taliban) Sudan, Sahel, Syria, etc etc. and not least, Ukraine. Or are you Specializing on the plight of the Palestinians only? As for what I've done. It would take a very long time to tell you the whole story, but a lot of these wars I've just mentioned, I've brought aid into them. Food, Medicine, Water, I've transferred the wounded from bombed cities to safety. I've moved truckloads of people to safety. There's a lot more to it than that, but you get the idea. And as for what you've done, I hope that anyone reading this will follow your example. At least you have come up with suggestions, which is far better that the endless discussions Pro Palestine V Pro Israeli.

jmreire

>>

StringerBell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121482875#Comment_121482875

There were three separate question marks in the post you responded to originally so technically you missed three.

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121483085#Comment_121483085

No, I answered those ones directly.

The reality, it seems, was that "Never Again" really means "We never want to see white people commit genocide again". T'is all a bit racists in my opinion.