Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

sock.rocker* · 15-12-2023 5:43am

Around 30-50% of people don't have an inner monologue apparently. Like they don't think in words but instead pictures or whatever. I think it explains the completely absurd and contradictory views that some people have.

It is without question that what Israel is doing in the West Bank is apartheid. You have to willingly sacrifice your intelligence to not see it, or simply not be mentally capable of recognising it as such.

Igotadose · 15-12-2023 9:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121496502#Comment_121496502

Not Israel's chief rabbi, but don't let that get in the way of your OBVIOUS anti-semitic characterization of this extremist Rabbi as Israel's chief rabbi. Par for the course. Might want to seek therapy.

As an aside, there's no one chief rabbi of Israel. Hope that helps. You can do your own research if you take some time away from your BDS feeds.

Annnd...he clarified later, too late for the BDS feeds to pick that up. But, hey, they wouldn't.

https://forward.com/news/breaking-news/355951/idf-chief-rabbi-sorry-for-remarks-justifying-wartime-rape/

Grayson · 15-12-2023 9:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121497589#Comment_121497589

Just reading that article, he said that he gave a short answer to a complicated question.

I'd say that it's not a complicated question. Rape is wrong. That's the answer he should have given. Instead he said that sometimes it's ok. And that's not misinterpreting what he said.

And he also said that women shouldn't be conscripted or sing in front of male soldiers because of modesty.

ceadaoin. · 15-12-2023 9:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121497661#Comment_121497661

No, he was talking about a verse in the Bible. He wasn't talking about idf policy or anything like it. Well that's what I gathered from looking up this issue from 20 years ago which had a whole court hearing about it due to the uproar in Israel, who apparently care about these things. Still, awful comments and a very religious extremist view, and pretty much the exact same scripture to the one that terrorists groups like Hamas and isis use to justify their rapes and denigration of women today. Pretty sure that women in Gaza must abide by "modesty" rules also. Not in the army though because they aren't allowed, but in their day to day life.

riffmongous · 15-12-2023 9:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121497589#Comment_121497589

Haha, you don't honestly believe he 'clarified' do you? He made an apology for the sake of his career. He claims he wasn't precise in his language but the original statement is actually very precisely formulated

Large bottle small glass · 15-12-2023 9:55am

I've never seen a thread which is a better example of how divisive AI driven social media platforms.

For weeks the same few posters on both sides repeating whatever they have been fed from their echo chamber. With the exception of @jmreire who seems to have significant experience in the region and doesn't post

They'll be much more personalised algorithms in the near future; I can't wait.

For such an ongoing complicated conflict the absence of any real discussion

*on the geopolitics; the roles of Russia, Iran, China etc

*Iran's effective land border on Israel's northern border

*The effect of generations of conflict on how both sides behave; northern Ireland is still completely dysfunctional 25 years after peace yet Israel and the Palestinians are expected to behave exactly like we would in our safe little bubble.

Etc etc

riffmongous · 15-12-2023 10:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121497706#Comment_121497706

I guess not a lot of people are into a detached discussion on the geopolitics while there's still hostages being held and dying, ethnic cleansing, more details on the 7th massacre coming out and the ongoing massacre of Palestinian civilians

A thread in a different forum would be better suited for that, and it would need to be well moderated to avoid going down the historical rabbit hole again

brickster69 · 15-12-2023 10:13am

Container ship hit by missile near Yemen and is reportedly on fire.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/12/15/israel-hamas-war-live-us-shifts-tone-but-says-israel-support-steadfast?update=2559456

Igotadose · 15-12-2023 10:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121497661#Comment_121497661

You agree he's not "Israel's chief Rabbi" though?

Grayson · 15-12-2023 10:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121497768#Comment_121497768

yep. He's still the head rabbi for the IDF so it's not like he's a fringe personality either. Those attitudes from anyone in that position is worrying.

sock.rocker* · 15-12-2023 10:32am

How is antisemitic to say he's Israel's chief rabbi if he's actually just the IDF's chief rabbi? I get that it's inaccurate but how it is "obvious" antisemitism?

nacho libre · 15-12-2023 10:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121497355#Comment_121497355

To answer your question from the other thread, America is well able to bring Israel to heel if it wants to, for instance by withdrawing diplomatic cover at the UN or by suspending military aid . They will never do it of course because Israel is a strategic ally.

In other news the National security minister and the Defense minister had a falling out over the suspension of a solider for singing songs in a mosque.

riffmongous · 15-12-2023 10:56am

Israeli Heritage Minister at it again

"Heritage Minister Amihai Eliyahu, of the far-right Otzma Yehudit party, says Israel “should fully occupy the Gaza Strip” following the war, as he believes the Palestinians are incapable of controlling the territory without turning it into a terror hotbed.

<Snip>

He adds that he wants “to reestablish settlements” in the Strip, but acknowledges that “this isn’t necessarily the time for that.”

Eliyahu previously made headlines in November when he said one of Israel’s options in the war against Hamas could be to drop a nuclear bomb on Gaza — comments that were quickly disavowed by Netanyahu, who also suspended the minister from cabinet meetings."

Flinty997 · 15-12-2023 11:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121497878#Comment_121497878

That wasn't my question. My question was historically when has the US been able to influence Israel actions during a war. I could only think of one time. Historically Israel just does it's own thing and ignores everyone else.

The idea that the US has Israel on a leash thus making the US responsible for Israels actions doesn't really hold up.

It would more accurate to say Israel has far more influence within the US which hobbles the US ability to do anything.

Ultimately Israel can keep this war going from it's internal resources. In terms of stopping the war, a sweet heart deal is more likely to be successful than any external condemnation.

Strazdas · 15-12-2023 11:18am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121497736#Comment_121497736

Jake Sullivan looked extremely uncomfortable when that Israeli fella said it alongside him - a war / assault on Gaza that lasts for six months or more would be very destabilising and divisive to the international order. The US could find itself in a 'guilt by association' scenario and regarded by many as fellow war criminals with the headbangers.

nacho libre · 15-12-2023 11:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498019#Comment_121498019

I think Israel has influence because it suits the Americans, they view Israel as a strategic outpost which serve their long term interests. The Israeli Government may say it doesn't care about public opinion, but they very much care what the American Government thinks. If the political will existed, and Biden wasn't speaking out of both sides of his mouth for election purposes, the current war would end fairly quickly. Israel acts as it does because they know America will back it up no matter what.

kirk. · 15-12-2023 11:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498064#Comment_121498064

I think there's a risk of escalation or some type of terrorist attack

Flinty997 · 15-12-2023 11:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498064#Comment_121498064

Considering the US history from Vietnam to Afghanistan I think that ship sailed a long time ago.

Strazdas · 15-12-2023 11:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498088#Comment_121498088

All of what you say is true but I don't think anyone had factored in what would happen if Israel was to 'go rogue' and become an out and out criminal / terrorist state and not even try to hide it - we're pretty much at that stage now.

nacho libre · 15-12-2023 11:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498019#Comment_121498019

Further to your question, we saw America's influence being brought to bear at the start of this war when Gallant wanted to launch a pre emeptive strike against Hezbollah it was only due to American pressure that Gallant was overruled by the rest of the Israeli war cabinet.

Strazdas · 15-12-2023 11:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498149#Comment_121498149

Has the mood changed though? The Israelis seem way more belligerent and aggressive in the last week or two - there was that statement yesterday that they no longer even care about what world opinion has to say about the attack on Gaza.

Flinty997 · 15-12-2023 11:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498088#Comment_121498088

Israel doesn't have influence, it's has military strength. It's had that since the start when it cobbled together it's arms from the black market while the entire world including the us embargoed it.

Israel isn't on a US leash. Thinking you can control it by proxy via the US or UK is naive.

That's the problem.

kirk. · 15-12-2023 11:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498198#Comment_121498198

It would probably be all out war in the middle east without the current US military presence and backing

The US has influence but they can't pull the strings as such.

Flinty997 · 15-12-2023 12:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498229#Comment_121498229

Will it fall back to the 1970s with another oil/energy crisis. US has more of it's own oil now makes that unlikely. Especially in the aftermath of the Russian gas etc.

brickster69 · 15-12-2023 12:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498288#Comment_121498288

Things will get sorted legally but unfortunately it will take time and many more needless deaths to occur before that.

brickster69 · 15-12-2023 12:31pm

Another one who deserves a bit of praise for his stance, i must admit i'm surprised more leaders have not come out more strongly on this. Can't see much coming from it that will bring any pressure but hopefully.

https://twitter.com/alexanderdecroo/status/1735599274451194082