Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121626068#Comment_121626068

It was many pages ago.

combat14

looks like iran continues to expand its global meddling from hamas in israel, hisbollah in lebanon and syria, houthis in yemen and now attacks today in iraq, syria and even pakistan (who are not impressed)

hopefully hamas attack on israel on the 7th oct wont lead to further conflict elsewhere

https://www.trtworld.com/middle-east/pakistan-warns-of-consequences-after-iran-strike-kills-innocent-children-16676237

Pakistan warns of consequences after Iran strike kills 'innocent children'

Iranian strike inside Pakistan's Balochistan province leaves two children dead and wounds three girls, says Islamabad, calling Tehran's attack an "unprovoked violation" of the country's airspace.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121626976#Comment_121626976

There is a difference between "understanding" and condoning/defending.

I understand what Israel is doing but I do not condone it nor defend it.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121627050#Comment_121627050

There are many posters on here that have string views - some mainstream, some extreme. When an outlier comes on here and posts extreme views, that does not mean posters with mainstream views would agree with that extreme view.

Anyone who outright denies rapes of Israelis is deluded in my opinion. Anyone who outright denies a disproportionate response from Israel is also deluded in my opinion.

But to tar one group or another with same brush is not fair and does not lead to healthy debate.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121627104#Comment_121627104

The BBC already reported that the conflict has spread - Iran, Houthis and Hezbollah are responding to Gaza, West Bank and extrajudicial killings.

All we can hope for is that it does not escalate. That appears to be the case for now but it could kick off at any moment.

dmcdona

After Israel stated they would wind down operations...

https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0116/1426747-israel-gaza-middle-east/

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121627252#Comment_121627252

“I can understand Hamas actions. If I lived there under those conditions with family killed etc I would be out there with them.”

That is what he/she said. It’s still there on the last page. I’d say he/she is at one with Hamas whereas you are not.

Also, you’re defending his/her position in a way that the actual poster is not.

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121627276#Comment_121627276

I know.

I didn’t.

Some posters definitely played it down etc. That has been done before. I don’t have the time to go board mining though.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121627303#Comment_121627303

You might go back and read the post I was responding to. Hint - it wasn't the post you quote above.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121627306#Comment_121627306

Actually, you did:

"Note to regular posters who deny that posters on here deny the rapes. Here is a strident denier defending his/her position."

And now you've modified your language from "deny it" to "play it down".

You say you don't have time to go board mining yet you're happy answering a question by stating "it was many pages ago" - presumably expecting me to go board mining?

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121627306#Comment_121627306

Pleading ignorance is part and parcel of the denial game.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121627047#Comment_121627047

It’s not “just a PR term” though. (The idea that there even would be an established “PR” term for murder shows how ridiculous your attempt at creating a false equivalence is). Collateral damage has a legal/military definition and there’s a huge difference between collateral deaths and targeting someone because of their ethnicity or religion.

Whether Israel is guilty of recklessness in its approach is a different question. I’m not saying they are doing everything right - I don’t actually know that. And nor do you.

But the fact is that they are not bombing Gaza because they are Palestinians. They are bombing it because Gaza has been transformed by Hamas into a war machine from which incursions into Israel’s legal territory have been launched. That’s a military goal.

Unlike Hamas’ incursion, which targeted Israeli civilians including babies for ethnic reasons. What was Hamas’ military goal in kidnapping a 9 month old? What could they possibly have been trying to achieve, other than to sow terror among civilians?

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121627252#Comment_121627252

Except the poster you’re quoting was replying to a full throated defence of Hamas’ actions.

He said this: “I can understand Hamas actions. If I lived there under those conditions with family killed etc I would be out there with them.”

So he thinks if he lived in Gaza he’d be a member of Hamas - which means accepting/approving of kidnapping a 9 month old baby. Nobody forced them to do that - there were no bombs falling on Gaza before that attack. That was a strategic choice made by Hamas and one they’ve promised to do again. So anyone who says they’d “be out there with them” now is condoning that.

(You made a very decent apology for your misreading of my post the other day, albeit it took a lot of effort from me to get you to admit that, but here you are doing it again to someone else. Should you be asking yourself questions about why you keep making these mistakes? Or should we?)

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121627714#Comment_121627714

That poster claims to be 'Full Irish.' Imagine if it rocked up to Gaza to assist Hamas. It'd pee itself before Hamas murdered it.

volchitsa

Also, as someone who grew up in the worst of the NI troubles it always makes me laugh when someone who would have been terrified to set foot in the place at the time now goes around boasting about how active they’d have been in the fight had they only lived there (or in Gaza or wherever) at the time.

No they fking wouldn’t. Most Northern Ireland nationalists didn’t - partly because most of them realised the disaster the IRA would wreak on the place if they ever got into power. Gaza is what NI could have been like if people had lost the run of themselves completely and put the IRA or the UVF in power. The whole economy dedicated to destroying England: what could possibly go wrong with that?

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121627734#Comment_121627734

LOL you got in quickly while I was having a little rant about much the same thing!

My point exactly.

(I used to get that about Northern Ireland sometimes. By people who didn’t have a fking clue)

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121627673#Comment_121627673

The term Collateral damage has only been used since the Vietnam war where there seemed to have been as much effort made to minimise civilian casualties as this war tells us alot. Before that war civilian casualties were just referred to as civilian casualties.

That you are even hesitant in acknowledging that Israel may be doing anything wrong after killing 10,000 kids is somewhat concerning. It tells me you are not concerned about minimising the deaths of children.

I would acknowledge that Hamas are terrorists and are much worse than Israel would ever be but the only entity that will continue to kill civilians and sow terror for the next few months will be Israel.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121627714#Comment_121627714

I didn't quote that poster. Go back and read my post.

And that answers your last question/dig.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121627804#Comment_121627804

I know you didn’t. But that’s what he was replying to. The context is important.

So you replied with an irrelevance to a genuine point. Like you did with mine.

Why?

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121627808#Comment_121627808

You know I didn't? Really? You've a very short memory, here, let me remind you:

"Except the poster you’re quoting was replying to a full throated defence of Hamas’ actions."

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121627714#Comment_121627714

Not just abducting 9 month olds but also the whole rape thing Hamas used to help fight for freedom.

And waving Shani Louks body around as a trophy while fellow understanding folks spat on it.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121627760#Comment_121627760

The fact that regular posters here who have consistently acknowledged abhorrent atrocities by Hamas have to keep doing so is illuminating. Same for antisemitism.

I've made my position abundantly clear and yet I'm now being accused of supporting those who support Hamas.

Seems to me the going rate here is "the best form of defence is attack".

As for acknowledging the atrocities Israel has and continues to commit, good luck with that. Many here have been having an absolute meltdown over Israel being brought before the ICJ and have gone on the attack.

The IDF has committed rape, Jewish settlers have murdered Palestinians, over 10,000 children are dead in Gaza, Israel is denying Palestinians humanitarian aid. The death toll is now over 31,000 in Gaza.

But the main outrage du jour is some random poster, stating views that many here have condemned multiple times, is out of order and the regular posters are tarred with the same brush.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121627826#Comment_121627826

Yes. That’s what I’m saying. You’ve got the wrong end of the stick. Again.

You picked up on a partial quote as though that’s all there was to it, but the poster you were replying to (Ceadaoin) had not said that any understanding of an action is necessarily condoning it. He was quoting a poster (Comerla) who’d done far more than that: he said that if he were in Gaza, he himself would be a member of Hamas.

To which Ceadaoin - and I - had said that he was in effect supporting Hamas’ strategy of kidnapping babies.m

At which point you jumped in with a complete irrelevance, as though the discussion had been about whether or not one can express understanding with tout condoning. But that wasn’t what the poster had been saying. So, here again, you’ve tried to move the discussion from something indefensible onto a terrain that you can defend but that nobody else was denying.

Seems like an attempt to defend another poster from the contents of his own posts by minimising what he said. I just wonder why you’d do that. You certainly didn’t do that with me - could it be the side that poster is arguing on??

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121627924#Comment_121627924

Best form of defence is attack? Isn’t that what you’re doing?

You’re misrepresenting what other posters have said : making it seem worse when they disagree with you, and minimising when they are on “your” side.

I really think you need a big old mirror there.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121627975#Comment_121627975

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121627971#Comment_121627971

When you've gotten out of your rant mode, go back and the read the posts carefully.

And unless you show where I directly quoted the original poster, you're telling porkies. And you know it. And I doubt very much you'll be the bigger man, like me, and apologise.

And unlike you, I'm not going to throw my toys out of the pram and refuse to engage, especially with someone (you) accusing me of siding with a poster denying rape. Which I didn't.

Seems you're not the honest poster I thought you were. No surprise there.

notfromhere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121626463#Comment_121626463

The teen girls are in the Israeli army so they are legitimate targets, the reason they look severely traumatized is because of constant Israeli bombing,

The only terrorists I can see are the IDF scum who would kill you in a heartbeat.

volchitsa

You’re misreading again.

I said you quoted someone who was replying to the original poster.

I never said you quoted the original poster. I even named the posters concerned to avoid ambiguity. You jumped into an ongoing conversation and misrepresented it.

If you wanted to talk about a different thing altogether then you shouldn’t have quoted someone who didn’t say that thing.

Sudden Valley

I dont think there is any justification for the assaulting/killing of women by one side or for the large scale killing of kids and women by the other side, no matter the methods used. Hamas are definitely worse than the IDF though. I think the longer this current operation goes on the more extreme views will emerge from both sides.

I think the true repercussions form this period of conflict will only be seen in a few years time.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121628418#Comment_121628418

Someone else defending Hamas’ terrorism.

But yeah nobody’s doing that.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121628470#Comment_121628470

Pot, kettle, black.