Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121652069#Comment_121652069

That is not the Palestinian's problem. If Israel doesnt want Palestine to be an independent state I cant see any other solution. You cant deny someone a vote in a country because you won't like how they will vote.

Overheal

American shot dead by settler in West Bank

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/louisiana-teen-traveled-west-bank-learn-roots-was-shot-dead-rcna134889

Accused of throwing rocks before they knew who he was it seems. And they’re sticking to that story.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121652584#Comment_121652584

Don't be so naïve that advocating for an apartheid system will provide a long term solution to the problem. i believe in a two state solution, not a solution where Israel controls the Palestinians in one state.

Israel will have no long term peace with the Muslim countries surrounding it, if it continues to abuse the Muslims living within the territories it controls so better for them if Palestine is a separate independent state.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121652874#Comment_121652874

The muslim countries surrounding Israel want nothing to do with the Palestinians. They're more than content to make this Israels and the Palestinians problem to solve, rightfully so, but if they'd had their way, there'd be no Israel and no Palestine, either.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121652584#Comment_121652584

Israel is fighting for its survival

That, right there, is naivety in the context of what is happening today.

I strongly suspect you have no interest in peace in the Middle East and are OK with the status quo.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121652874#Comment_121652874

Israel has peace with Egypt and Jordan.

Saudi peace was on the way before current events unfolded. It may still happen but Saudi requires a two state solution.

Don't forget, there's always two sides to a story. Israel is well able to give its neighbours a good kicking.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653411#Comment_121653411

Why do you think it's naive to say that Israel is fighting for its survival? There are currently nearly 100,000 Israelis who are internally displaced, from the northern border or from the zone around Gaza, with no idea of when or if they will be able to return safely.

Those are farming areas, so there will be effects on Israel's capacity to feed itself, so for that reason alone, it's a problem for the country. And that's without considering that if this new strategy of attacking civilians in their homes becomes widespread, ie if terror groups cased in the West Bank, Lebanon and Syria begin to use it too, most of Israel will become uninhabitable.

How can that not be an existential crisis?

scottser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121639026#Comment_121639026

it's not much of a leap from 'we are the chosen people' to 'we are the master race'.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653659#Comment_121653659

You don't understand what Chosen means in the context of Judiasm, but it's not to be better than others, just more adherent to their religion.

Kiteview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653411#Comment_121653411

The irony of the person blindly re-posting Hamas’ propaganda criticising others for having no interest in peace would be amusing were it not for the mounting death tolls in the war that Hamas started.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653765#Comment_121653765

And peace is more possible now with 30k Gazans dead, 10k of them Children? The irony of someone posting that Israel is interested in peace, based on those numbers. Hamas and Israel both seem uninterested in peace.

Hey boy

I believe the majority in Israel are interested in peace but presumably they want to finish what Hamas started so Hamas in Gaza can’t do it again.

Sudden Valley

They are deluded if they think publicly proclaiming a 2 state solution is out of the question and killing 30k will bring them any closer to peace.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653681#Comment_121653681

Well it seems to be an odd religion that denies empathy, pity and any form of respect.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653765#Comment_121653765

The irony of anyone being amused at all by the current situation...

You might think you're being smart, but you're not. Unless of course you believe Haaretz is a Hamas mouthpiece.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653681#Comment_121653681

In your opinion of course...

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653929#Comment_121653929

1/10 on the antisemitism scale. Gotta raise your game

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653890#Comment_121653890

Hamas did NOT start this war. They escalated it. The Israelis were always treating the Palestinians poorly and were guilty of many murders before Hamas escalated the 'war'. And nobody is backing or supporting Hamas in any way, they are murdering tyrants and so are the IDF. There is loads of evidence to support that.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653952#Comment_121653952

Ah the go to retort when cornered.

dmcdona

A common theme here is to accuse of posters who are against genocide and war crimes of a variety of positions when cornered or when simply unable to put a cogent, sourced argument together. And of course, the justifications for war crimes and genocide.

"Anti-Semite"; "Hamas Propagandist"; "Existential threat"; "Human shields"; "Hamas started it"; ""but the rapes"; "WWII was worse"; "cannon fodder";

"human shields"; "the tunnels"; "they had weapons"; "it was proportional"; "they voted for Hamas"

Even the moderate Israeli press don't justify any of this - they report on the horror perpetrated on Gaza and the West Bank. Israelis citizens are horrified too. They are not Hamas propagandists - just human beings with a conscience. Pro Israeli posters here should let that sink in.

The ICJ will undoubtedly weigh in soon enough and the world will know what the World Court's judgment is. The ICC will issue its verdicts too.

We will be told if Israel has been disproportional or if it has committed genocide - or not.

Until then, the usual posters will continue to show their support for genocide and war crimes either actively or passively.

dmcdona

IDF accused of using poison gas

Source: Haaretz

On December 14, the Israel Defense Forces recovered from a tunnel in Jabalya the bodies of three Israelis who had been abducted to the Gaza Strip on October 7 – soldiers Ron Sherman and Nick Beiser, and Elia Toledano, a civilian. About a month later, the army gave their families the pathology report and a report on how the bodies were found. These raise tough and troubling questions that require explanations and public exposure.

These questions were raised in all their gravity by Dr. Maayan Sherman, Ron's mother, who is a veterinarian. In a Facebook post, she accused the IDF of killing her son when it pumped poison gas into the tunnel in which the hostages were held and served as "human shields" for Ahmed Ghandour, a senior Hamas commander.

"The inquiry's findings: Ron was indeed murdered," she wrote. "Not by Hamas … not by stray bullets and not in an exchange of fire. This was deliberate murder. Bombing with poison gas … Oh yes, and they found that Ron also had several crushed fingers, apparently due to his desperate attempts to escape the poison grave."

Her son, she continued, "was abducted due to the criminal negligence of all the senior figures in the army and this rotten government, who gave the order to kill him to settle a score with some bloodthirsty, but also really stupid, terrorist named Ghandour from Jabalya."

dmcdona

IDF Lt. Col. makes unverified claims

Source: Haaretz

In an interview on the Israeli Channel 14, a senior Israeli army officer made unverified claims regarding the identity of some of the victims of the Hamas October 7 assault on Kibbutz Be'eri.

The officer, Lt. Col. Guy Basson, deputy commander of the Kfir Brigade, claimed that eight infants were murdered in the communal nursery, and that an Auschwitz survivor called Genia was also murdered. These incidents described in the interview, which aired on Saturday night, never happened.

Speaking to Channel 14's Erel Segal, Basson said: "We get to Kibbutz Be'eri, and I'm confronted with two main scenarios. One was from the children's nursery… where they were simply slaughtered and murdered." Segal asked him in response," Did you see the children inside…?" to which Basson replies: "A house. Eight babies, eight dead babies."

Basson later added: "Another image that stuck with me is Genia, of blessed memory, an elderly woman from Kibbutz Be'eri. "I see the number engraved on her arm, and you say to yourself, she went through the Holocaust in Auschwitz and ended up dying on Kibbutz Be'eri."

Findings indicate that there is no Holocaust survivor named Genia in Be'eri, and as far as is known, no one by that name ever lived on the kibbutz. Additionally, none of the victims of the Be'eri massacre were Holocaust survivors.

Regarding the claim that eight babies were murdered in a kibbutz nursery, to this day there is no known case in any of the surrounding communities where children from several families were murdered together. In Kibbutz Be'eri, one baby, Mila Cohen, 10 months old, was murdered on October 7, along with her father, Ohad.

Basson also spoke about the fighting in Be'eri. "I fired tank shells at terrorists inside the kibbutz," he said. When asked to comment on the fact that Division 99 commander, Brig. Gen. Barak Hiram, ordered a tank to fire at a house where hostages were being held, he said: "As someone who was there and saw things from up close, there was no disproportionate or indiscriminate fire. We only did so after trying to exhaust every avenue that does not harm our forces… it's an honor to wear a uniform and protect our residents."

A Kibbutz Be'eri spokesperson rejected the claims, and said, "Nearly one hundred people were murdered on Kibbutz Be'eri, and the community suffered hundreds of heartbreaking incidents on that Black Saturday and over the past months, especially regarding the hostages. However, incidents such as eight murdered babies and a murdered Holocaust survivor named Genia – did not happen."

An IDF spokesperson said, "The events in question will be investigated and examined. There was no intention to describe a reality that didn't happen, and we apologize if anyone was offended. We will set the record straight and clarify to all commanders involved in the media effort."

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653964#Comment_121653964

Calling as I see it. You slagged an entire religion. What would you call that? Bigotry? Satisfied?

TokTik

https://twitter.com/MOSSADil/status/1728771182822838450?s=20

Aren't these these the 4 “young teenage women” Israel is telling the world have been kidnapped by Hamas?? Seems like they’re experienced soldiers. Strangely they never mention that they are IDF.

scottser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653681#Comment_121653681

Jewish people believe that they were chosen by God to be 'a light unto the nations' but their government believes that they can murder their way to salvation without being accountable to anyone. A great example to other nations, I'm sure you'll agree.

The sooner Israel is brought to heel, the safer the world will be.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121654198#Comment_121654198

See, this bit here shows that you're no longer even making an attempt to sound objective:

"A common theme here is to accuse of posters who are against genocide and war crimes"

Cos anyone who disagrees with you supports genocide and war crimes? FFS

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121654408#Comment_121654408

I slagged their silence at Palestinian suffering. It is a 'general' silence as I can't canvass every Jew to see how they feel and obviously there is a fair proportion of them against this mass killing/murder of Palestinians. Are those against the war also antisimitic too?

dmcdona

...

https://m.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-783119

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121654914#Comment_121654914

Weaseling now. You slagged the religion. Own it.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121654926#Comment_121654926

No the point stands. And you didn't address it.