Boards assembly on drug use

The citizens assembly has finished their discussion & are due to meet again at the end of October to vote on the policy change recommendations.

but how do boards users feel about drug policies in Ireland? What changes would you recommend (if any) and why?

I myself would argue for legalising cannabis and potentially decriminalising some other drugs. I don’t think fully legalising all drugs is going to amount to anything positive. But it’s been demonstrated in other countries that decriminalising drug use (ie not criminalising people for having an addiction/making a bad decision in life) has had positive impacts.

Besides what you’d like to see what do you think the recommendations from the citizens assembly will be? 🤔

Ive watched and read some of what was discussed in the meetings but it’s a hard call. I could at the very least see them recommending decriminalising cannabis only. I don’t think we’re going to be joining Colorado or LA anytime soon!

SEPT 23 1989

five spots ten spots eights quarters nine bars

jumpers for goalposts next goal winner

marvellous

francois

Legalization of cannabis is a no brainer. Opioid addicts should be able to access them on a script provided they interact with addiction services, removes the chaotic and criminal element searching for money for the next fix.

Decriminalise possesion for small amounts of everything else. Psychedelics should also be allowed for research into various issues in mental health

the_amazing_raisin

I'm probably going to be in the minority who thinks that most drugs should be legalised, specifically Cannabis, Cocaine, MDMA and a few others. I would be very against Opioids and Amphetamines being legalised, but perhaps decriminalised

Now just to dispel any ideas anyone here has, I have never taken most of the drugs above and probably never will. I smoked weed a couple of times, decided it was sh!t and went back to the booze instead

So why am I advocating for legalisation?

Well I'm going to answer with another question, which is the bigger issue for society, drug usage or the criminal behaviour behind drug import and sales?

Personally I believe that drug dealing is the bigger scourge upon society and gangs are callously using it to draw so many younger people into a life of crime and violence. Young lads see some gangster driving a fancy car and flashing the cash and offering a quick way to get rich, just drop a few parcels off somewhere, no worries

I believe that legalisation of drug sales, but from non criminal sources, would deprive many of these gangs of their main source of income and would essentially put lot of dealers out of business

This is why I don't think decriminalisation is enough, because the money still finds it's way into the hands of criminal gangs

The obvious objection to this is that more people are likely to start taking drugs. Let me once again respond with a question, do you think anyone who is a drug addict now is concerned about the illegality if their behaviour. Do you think anyone likely to become an addict is concerned about the law?

In the short term it probably will lead to some increases, which could largely be explained by the current statistics underestimating the true extent of drug usage

By bringing drug usage into the open it will likely encourage more addicts to seek treatment

As for where the drugs will come from, I think it would be counterproductive to strike some purchase agreement with the Cartels. There would probably need to be some semi state company setup to produce the drugs. I wouldn't trust the private sector with something so profitable, we've already seen how the tobacco companies and opioid companies went

Since the drugs will be produced to the same standards as a pharmaceutical drug, the contents can be made less lethal and the dosage properly controlled, which should lead to far fewer drug related deaths

I do think there should be some controls, only pharmacies should be able to sell legalised drugs and ID should be checked and recorded for every sale. I've always felt it was a mistake to allow shops to sell cigarettes and vaping products

I suppose the other fringe benefit would be the boost to the tax revenue from legalised drugs. I imagine they'll incur excise duty similar to alcohol and tobacco. That'll definitely make for an interesting annual budget report 😂

To be absolutely clear, I don't believe legalisation would "fix" everything. There will always people who get addicted to anything, and where there are rules people will always try to circumvent them. I mean, cigarettes and alcohol are legal and yet people still smuggle them in

However I do think that in the long run, legalisation will alleviate the vast majority of the issues around drug usage and also significantly diminish the power of criminal gangs

Donald Trump

Nice try Garda

Seamus4life

No demand, no drug trade so just kill all the addicts?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121211477#Comment_121211477

insightful contribution, thanks very much for sharing

🙄

PsychoPete

There should be a completely zero tolerance on drug use and anyone found in possession of any amount of drugs should be dealt the full force of the law

Gloomtastic!

The Citizens Assembly is just a talking shop. The decisions have already been made.

It will then take up to two years for the box tickers to agree which boxes need to be ticked. That’s the opportunity to make a difference.

tayto lover

I can see them not convicting in court for cannabis possession for own use. No other changes.

messinkiapina

I do think it's daft to criminalise the personal use of anything. Legislation for softer drugs seems reasonable.

Is there any chance that will actually happen? Typically we follow the UK's lead on these things rather than the likes of Portugal/Malta etc.

Atlantic Dawn

I've been in parts of US where it has been half ass legalised for 'medicinal' use and the open air pretty much every single place you go is stinking of potent weed, it's disgusting, it gets worse than tobacco smoke. I've no problem with cannabis being legalised but only in the comfort of your own home or say a cannabis club. If legalised behind closed doors there would need to be a €200 fine for public use for me to support it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121211632#Comment_121211632

Agree there definitely think sticking to in certain establishments or home, I wouldn’t be advocating for smoking in public.

Gloomtastic!

We should be pushing for total no smoking/vaping. Why should 50% of people have to put up with a smell that they hate? And it’s better for your health. It would be a world first but we’ve done that before quite successfully.

Goldengirl

It's a " Bad Gateway " . ;)

SEPT 23 1989

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121211762#Comment_121211762

It Masks the smell of sweaty bo bo from delinquents

wouldn’t you agree

TedBundysDriver

Absolutely zero chances should be given to drug users or dealers. Build more prisons and fill them up especially with the cocaine users in well off areas who look down their noses at drug users from working class areas and call them junkie scum etc...

tabby aspreme

My young lad was on holiday last summer in Lisbon and he said he was constantly being approached to buy drugs, even at 8 am in the morning going to the local shop you would be hassled. The bad gateway is preventing me linking an article in the Washington post about the decriminalisation of drugs in Portugal

radiotrickster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121211632#Comment_121211632

These are my exact thoughts. I was in New York only a couple of weeks back and the smell was atrocious. It put me right off ever going back.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121211520#Comment_121211520

I guess that's Starbucks out of business then

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121211912#Comment_121211912

Where is the money going to come from to implement that policy, think of the extra gardai needed, legal and prison costs. We're still waiting for Thornton Hall to be built. There was uproar recently when a tourist was beaten up, complaints about lack of police to keep our streets safe. That should be the priority, not stopping people enjoying themselves.

jh79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121211962#Comment_121211962

The same happened to be on my first foreign holiday in Spain and that was in the late 90's. It's nothing new.

SeanW

Yes to legalisation of weed, and also research into psyhcodelics, but I'm against legalising or decriminalising most other drugs. If you look at some of the cities in the United States where they've basically legalised all drugs and don't enforce any of the laws broken by drug addicts (like shoplifting, on-street encampments), it's just crazy. Things like fentanyl, tranq etc, no way.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121216718#Comment_121216718

Even if we keep criminalizing minor drug possession, it shouldn't be a big deal. Stuff like meth or opioids are highly addictive. It doesn't matter what penalities are put on them, users will still use. That should be treated as a public health issue. Importing or dealing large amounts should be treated as far more serious.

I once spent a day in a court waiting for a case I was a witness in to be called. I heard the judge deal with a lot of cases involving alcohol addiction (mainly public order cases). He was left with two choices each time. Refer them for treatment or imprison them. He didn't want to imprison them but he said that depending on the area there were either no treatment programs available or they were incredibly over subscribed.

If we want to be serious about tackling drug addiction in this country we need to be more proactive. We need to have earlier interventions, better education, urban renewal programs and more treatment available. This shouldn't be something that rely on the Garda have to deal with.

j2

I'd have a pretty simple approach. Taking illegal drugs is evil. Life in prison for selling any illegal drug, including cannabis. 10 years in prison for possession of any illegal drug, life in prison for 2nd offence. We're going to need more prisons!

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217204#Comment_121217204

🤣😃🤣

That's a bit too obvious for a rage bait post.

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121211290#Comment_121211290

I'm not sure in what world making Cocaine legal would be a good idea,

Not a chance in hell should that ever been made legal absolute nightmare of a drug,

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217204#Comment_121217204

So drinking coffee . smoking & alcohol is fine butt weed is not ? Why would do you see it as different ?

j2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217350#Comment_121217350

You see them as different too, so you could ask yourself why that is. I would gladly ban alcohol if it were possible, but the genie is out of the bottle with that one unfortunately. I'd love to lock up alcoholics if there were some way to figure that out. Clean living, health and fitness, achieving difficult goals vs being a rancid scumbag who uses dirty and disgusting substances to buy a temporary state of fabricated happiness with the currency of your own physical and mental health? That's a tough one, don't know which one to plump for. Hmmmmmm.

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217383#Comment_121217383

What business is it of yours if people use substances to buy a temporary state of fabricated happiness ? If there not breaking the law then it shouldn't be a issue,

Also its not fabricated happiness if your experiencing happiness your experiencing happiness, Is watching your favourite tv show or listening to music fabricated happiness ?

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217341#Comment_121217341

FWIW, I agree that cocaine is a scourge upon society and I'm not condoning it's use

However, let me ask you something, what has the past decades of punishing drug usage and trying to curtail supply by busting drug dealers and importers accomplished?

From where I stand, it seems to have accomplished exactly nothing

It's pretty simple as to why, where there is demand for a product someone will come to supply that product. The fact that the product is illegal will only deter someone who is interested in keeping their business legal

It's apparent that there's enough demand for drugs, and enough of a financial incentive to sell them that criminal gangs will make a business out of it

The whole war on drugs thing has basically been trying to cut supply. But it's a sham really, the idea of a war is that it can eventually be won. There's this illusion that just one more arrested drug dealer or intercepted shipment will be the last and the whole drug trade will collapse

The truth is that it's a forever war, and as long as a significant portion of the population wants to shove the stuff up their noses there will always be people willing to take the risk to supply it

And it isn't like the gangs are just taking the hits and not punching back. When threatened they're more than willing to bring violence to the streets in order to force things back to the status quo

That's why I think going after the supply side is pointless, and also why I think decriminalisation isn't enough

Legalisation would not solve every drug related problem, I think anyone who believes that is a fool

But it would remove the financial incentive for criminals and would also deprive them of their largest source of income (presuming demand could be met by legal means)

I think legalisation is also a step towards lowering demand. I realise that seems counterintuitive, but it's been shown that investment in addiction therapy rather than imprisonment of addicts has far more positive outcomes

I'm not under any illusions that every addict will suddenly turn themselves in for therapy, there will always be people who fall into destructive behaviour unfortunately. I do believe that in the long term we would be able to better treat addicts and lower the number of chronic drug users overall

Ultimately, as a society we're going to have to accept that drugs are a problem of our own making and not something forced upon us. We need to look inwards for solutions, not simply think that we can cut supply and somehow tough it out as a society

Isthisthingon?

I'm on the fence at the moment with legalize / non legalize/ decriminalize debate.

Its not my thing, I've smoked weed in the past in my younger days but if someone wants to take drugs and or abuse alcohol - ultimately we cant stop them. One friend of mine is a recovering alcoholic sober for 4 years and another is clean and sober for 20 odd, nearly overdosing twice so I'm not preaching here from a high horse.

In an ideal world you take drug of choice , get high or whatever sensation you are aiming for - and then revert back to 'normal' all without having a negative affect on your environment or yourself. We all know this isn't always the case.

The consumption of alcohol and its abuse is a legacy issue that may never be solved. Prohibition doesn't work. Restricted opening hours doesn't work, minimum pricing doesn't work simply on the basis that alcohol is readily available.

I think tobacco will eventually fade away , its being replaced by vapes now but it remains to be seen how long that fad will last.

Should you be punished for taking drug of choice and harming no one (but possibly yourself)? - I would say no.

Do I want to see a scenario where people are high as a kite/ coked of their heads/( Insert your own euphemism) as I'm doing the shopping in Tesco?

I would also say no, and that is the ' technically not bothering me' scenario.

Insert scenario of your choice - In the pub/ cinema/ sporting event/ behind the wheel of a car/ operating a machine and suddenly the legalization or decriminalization isn't as straightforward as it seems.

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217997#Comment_121217997

Its the same as saying the war on crime is failing people commit crime every day . We should just give up & make free legal, its the best way forward

Cocaine should never be legal

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217341#Comment_121217341

"nightmare of a drug" obviously the millions of people who enjoy using it worldwide wouldn't agree with you. It would be a good idea because it would reduce/eliminate criminal involvement, it could be produced more safely and generate tax for governments, which could be used to treat the tiny minority of people who develop problems with cocaine. As it is, the state gets ZERO for any coke-related hospital admission. It would also free up precious police time and resources. Why not try it for 2/3 years, if the pros don't outweigh the cons by then, we can always revert to this current "successful" policy.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218476#Comment_121218476

No it isn't, I would suggest that you reread my posts more carefully instead of misrepresenting my words

At no point did I suggest that any criminal behaviour should be legalised simply because a percentage of the population commits crime

However, trying to stop something by legal means is only feasible if you can enforce it, at least to the point where you have a high degree of confidence that you can catch most of the perpetrators

This is plainly not the case for drug usage, if anything it seems to be going up every year. It's obvious that the current approach isn't working so something new is needed

I believe the path forward is to minimise the number of people falling into addiction and remove the ways in which criminal gangs make money from drug sales

This is why I keep saying decriminalisation isn't sufficient, only legalisation and regulated production and sale will accomplish this

I don't believe legalisation alone is enough, there would need to be more funding available for addiction therapy and support

You can easily argue that more supports are enough, however there will always be money flowing into gangs that way. And it's quite easy to relapse when there some dealer in the street offering you a bag of coke for free, for old times sake (and so he can sell you another bag at twice the price later)

Look at cigarettes as an example. They are legal but the number of smokers has gone down for years, largely because it has been demonised by society and there are a multitude of organisations that help people quit

If only we could do the same for vaping and stop teenagers from taking it up

Now I've laid out my arguments, perhaps you'd like to give a response better than "cocaine bad"? A response which at no point did I disagree with, however I'm eager to see what alternative solutions you have come up with

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218054#Comment_121218054

Going to your Tesco scenario, I've definitely been in a shop with someone who was on something, or a combination of things

It's pretty head wrecking, not gonna lie

But, do you think legalisation would increase or decrease the number of druggies in the shop?

I don't think it would have any effect personally, there'll still be the same number of addicts in the system as before

Only difference is they're less likely to die of an OD because they can only buy a certain amount from the pharmacy and it won't be cut with builders lime. And maybe they might have a better chance to get into a program to kick the addiction

Isthisthingon?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218627#Comment_121218627

Interesting Question, if drugs were made legal then yes, I would think that you would see more druggies in the shop/ elsewhere , not of zombie apocalypse levels where there are hoards of them but increased on the basis that you don't have to 'hide' your consumption of drugs anymore as it is legal. Frowned upon, but legal nonetheless. I would imagine it would be akin to see someone staggering home late in the evening or night after a day on the beer - you might say ' he/she had a heavy session', shrug and laugh to yourself or ' he/she will do themselves damage if their not careful' . Would you ring the guards and report them for consuming alcohol ? no - its legal, you might ring them if the person could barely stand or was causing a nuisance.

If made legal would you report someone for snorting coke off a counter in the chipper? No , if they start a fight on coke rage for a perceived slight, then yes.

There is also a cohort of people who could now legally try out drugs without affecting their careers as it would be legal.

My teacher/ doctor/ coach was some man for the drink vs my teacher/doctor / coach was some man for the coke. Doesn't sound right.

Another fallacy I feel is that there isn't a pharmaceutical in the world that would attempt to make a legal version of coke for example, look at oxycontin in the states - that was legal and more addictive than heroin. They would be open to every imaginable lawsuit going, and a government couldn't legally sanction a drug like that unless the potency was so low that you'd need to be snorting flour bags of the stuff to get any type of high, ditto for pills etc. I remember some distillers started selling poitin, 40% alcohol content , distilled under strict licensing conditions . in other words not poitin.

There is no magical catch all solution.

Gloomtastic!

^ OxyContin was branded heroin.

Isthisthingon?

And look how that worked out.

Gloomtastic!

I’ve no interest in any other drug apart from cannabis so haven’t really looked into it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_cocaine

That was an interesting read. Why would cocaine be made medically available for anyone?

Isthisthingon?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218976#Comment_121218976

I guess it is after all a pain killer amongst other things but yeah you'd imagine they're be other options.

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218476#Comment_121218476

No no, crimes which involve a non-consenting victim such as murder, rape, robbery etc should always be illegal. When a person takes coke, they DO consent, big difference. Also, people get enjoyment from cocaine, nobody enjoys being murdered, raped or robbed.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218777#Comment_121218777

It's worth saying that legalisation doesn't mean you'd be free to consume drugs anywhere

It's illegal to smoke indoors, and drinking in public places is illegal

So even if it were legalised, it's probably safe to assume most businesses would ban drug consumption onsite

Similarly, I don't think anyone is likely to start doing a line of coke during their lunch break in work (unless they're already doing so). A lot of workplaces have rules that you can't be intoxicated during work and those wouldn't cease to apply if drugs were legalised

There might end up being licensed premises, like weed bars in Amsterdam, which are the only places you are allowed to use drugs

So yeah, maybe a slight increase, but I don't see it being much worse than things are now

ancapailldorcha

I favour liberalisation but there are a few complications.

I was in Amsterdam this year and, while parts of it have been cleaned up to due to pushback against cannabis, parts of the place absolutely reek. I also can't stand the culture around cannabis. That's a personal thing but to me, it's so pretentious and hollow. It's just a glorification of laziness and cynicism.

Keeping the stuff illegal doesn't mean it's not there. It's here to stay so we may as well tax it and use our justice systems for more productive tasks than locking up young fellas for having a tiny amount of hash on them.

As for the rest, I'd begin with decriminalisation and move from there. Portugal has decriminalised everything and it's still in one piece.

L.Ball

We're a short sighted & hedonistic people, and looking at our drinking culture I think legalization is a colossal mistake, but that's just me.

Gloomtastic!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121220304#Comment_121220304

It’s the smell again. Get rid of the smell and you get rid of the prejudice. Simple.

Gloomtastic!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121221119#Comment_121221119

Again, more ignorance due to over 100 years of prohibition. Ireland has an opportunity to make the legalisation of cannabis as socially acceptable as drinking tea or coffee if we do it properly.

65535

Well seeing as ye are asking...

I wouldn't mind the opportunity to grow 1 (only one) plant - hydroponically - and not just for 'research purposes' but for pain reduction.

Not for sale - just for my own use - but I don't want my name splashed all over the news - 1 plant worth €xxx

And then the other side of the coin:

I had a nice neighbour that passed away.

I didn't know that his son was a heroin addict and was using methadone on prescription.

I saw an ambulance outside his house one night and ran over thinking it was my elderly neighbour but no - it was a friend of the son - dead on the floor in the sitting room - sickening when it comes to your locality.

A family relative got jail time for bringing money from one city to another - visited him in jail - he's off it now and doing well.

His sister got into drug debt over cocaine and we had to help her out - in fairness she's after getting a good job and will pay back but the damn stuff is everywhere - on every street corner....

Gloomtastic!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121221691#Comment_121221691

Currently, the limit before you are considered a commercial grower, is 4 plants. If you are caught with 4 plants and under you maybe fined €1,250 in the district court for a first offence. The guards have a million better things to be doing that going after individuals growing small quantities of cannabis and the chances of you being caught are very slim. Your biggest worry is a neighbour spotting your plant and reporting you.

The outdoor growing season is just finishing up but you can grow indoors, like a garden shed, all year round. Growing indoors is more expensive as you need lights and probably a grow tent but the chances of anybody spotting your grow is less.

If you don’t want the added expense but also don’t want the neighbours to know, I recommend you try growing a cannabis strain called Fresian Duck. The clever people who have produced this strain have made it look nothing like a cannabis plant so the neighbours won’t know.

https://dutch-passion.com/en/cannabis-seeds/frisian-duck

A journalist was in my garden during the summer and sat right beside this pot for a couple of hours and didn’t spot a thing. 😋

One thing a lot of the negative posters on here may not realise, again due to it’s prohibition and the negative stereotypes portrayed in the media, is that there are a huge amount of very clever people who enjoy regular consumption of cannabis and are also involved in the business. It’s a fascinating industry and full of possibilities.

Montage of Feck

I'm mostly of the opinion that if you can grow it, legalise it. Although here in the west we do to seem to have a knack for taking substances that originally had spiritual and medicinal uses and turning it into junk to be sold.

Wanderer78

legalise, and get on with it!