Budget 2024 - The Squeezed Middle

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121223830#Comment_121223830

I didn't. I don't know your circumstances.

I merely made the point that if someone on 15k a year has more disposable income than a worker then there is something wrong somewhere. And It's not with the disability payment being too high.

Anyway. I suspect I know exactly what type of person you are based on the fact you think our disabled are living it up on 234 quid.

Good day to you sir.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121223888#Comment_121223888

Right, but it’s not myself claiming the disabled in Ireland are living the rich life all the while refusing to sign on.

If life on disability allowance is such a dream why won’t you apply for it? Give me one good reason to stay working if it’s such a pox.

or is it that you’re talking rubbish and have no idea how hard it is to live on €230 a week?

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121223976#Comment_121223976

I never claimed anything of the sort. You're putting words in my mouth.

In plain language so that you might understand it, I said that i think what was given in this budget to DA (and other welfare recipients) was generous, and basically, how much more was expected?

But you can think what you like. You're clearly just looking for a row.

Look elsewhere. I'm not engaging with this line of "shite".

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121224032#Comment_121224032

I think people permanently disabled and unable to work as a result should be getting a minimum of 350 per week.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121224054#Comment_121224054

this would clearly benefit both them and the economy at large, as most of that money would be spent into the economy, almost immediately upon receiving it, as was more or less the case with pup payments...

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121223840#Comment_121223840

Imagine what that 2.5 billion warchest they set aside for Ukrainian's would have done for me tal health services in this country. For a start, it would have taken it out of the 19th century it's currently stuck in.

Emblematic

While it is indeed ridiculous that some people begrudge the very minuscule (less than inflation) increase of €12 a week to those on the very lowest of incomes, genuine hardship can exist for those on somewhat higher incomes depending on circumstances.

It does strike me as strange, though, to hear about help for families on less than €100,000 a year. It is just that figure of €100,000. I think it may be the first time I have heard it mention that you could be on that as a family and need help from the state.

I do think that something has gone wrong with the way the country has been run. I think possibly it is the chasing after multi-nationals and the GDP figure whilst ignoring the welfare of ordinary people.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121224054#Comment_121224054

They'd be paying tax on that.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121224101#Comment_121224101

...they pay taxes anyway, on many of their purchases!

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121224054#Comment_121224054

You're entitled to any opinion you like.

I didn't comment to start a debate on how much the rate of DA should be.

I commented on how I think a welfare recipient who (all things considered), will receive a net increase of over €30 per week in their income and that is excluding the energy credits) did well out of this budget, and I don't think they should have expected more.

But yourself and Armando Odd Seam can continue to twist and turn it to make it about something else.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121224106#Comment_121224106

Never said they didn't so no idea where that's coming from. At 350 a week you would be over the threshold for USC and have to pay some tax on it. That's all I'm saying

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121223783#Comment_121223783

I left Intel just as they were starting the groundwork but from memory the real biggie is the whole planning permission system rather than staff availability.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121224118#Comment_121224118

You're comment was incorrect and has been called out by a few posters now.

Let's leave it at that I suppose.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121224098#Comment_121224098

yea, the financialisation of our economy, particularly our property markets, has completely failed, we re not the only country experience this failure either....

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121221514#Comment_121221514

Good run down here of lump sums including dates:

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money-and-tax/budgets/budget-2024/#d21f8d

All domestic electricity customers will get €450 off their electricity bills. The energy credit will be paid in 3 instalments of €150. The first payment will be made in December 2023, the second will be made in January 2024 and the third will be made in March 2024.

A €300 once-off lump sum will be paid to people getting Fuel Allowance in November 2023. See ‘Social welfare’ above.

Leg End Reject

The old "Why don't you quit your job and go on DA/SW?" chestnut!

A. DA is only paid to those with a disability. I'm happier being ineligible for that.

B. You can't leave the rat race and sign on the dole. If you quit you're on your own for a while, you'll have a mortgage or be renting privately, your GP wants €60 per consultation, the pharmacist wants to be paid for any prescribed medication etc.

I'm a working professional, currently paying 40% PAYE over €40k. I'll pay 20% on 2k of that income next year, a net saving of €400 p/a excluding the increased tax free allowances, a little less USC and a smidge more PRSI. €450 electricity credit is very welcome.

I still have to pay a mortgage, run a car, pay property tax, property maintenance costs, heat my home etc.

There's very little for workers who earn above the threshold for any additional payments, many of those will be just above the threshold too and it's good luck and fcuk you.

I fully agree with supporting those on disability, reliant on a state pension etc, but more should be done for low income families. All these benefits should be applied on a sliding scale, not just chucked like confetti at those who could work, but choose not to. Get knocked up, get a heavily subsidised rental and claim everything going should not be an easy lifestyle choice.

That's why "the people who get at 7 in the morning" are pissed off at this budget, working needs to be the only option to avoid poverty for those who are able to work. The savings could be used to increase payments to the disabled, pensioners solely reliant on the state pension, carers, healthcare etc.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121224180#Comment_121224180

...you ll also find that some that do get up early in the morning, have actually no interest in finding out what actually causes long term unemployment, including those on benefits such as da!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121224180#Comment_121224180

as someone who’s been on welfare it’s not the high live some folks seem to think it is.

it’s either that or I was doing it wrong because in my time I couldn’t afford car, holidays even Christmas was painful.

Most birthdays went by without any gifts because I didn’t have the spare cash on €200 a week.

in any case you wouldn’t have to quit your job, just try live on €200 a week and nothing more. In the winter you can tack on €30 extra for fuel.

At Christmas spend €400 one week.

But there’s not a sinner willing to by their own choice live on a couple hundred a week because it’s ****. It’s not fun. It’s not the dream life.

Yea there are plenty of people who would be career dole heads, but you can’t punish the ones who genuinely can’t help it because there’s a small minority who abuse the system.

Ireland would be better off to enact policies similar to the UK, not exactly like theirs but very similar I think.

For example most jobseekers in the UK are on sub £100 a week. If they miss a meeting they are suspended. Not seen to be looking for work? Suspended.

I don’t understand how despite the rules around jobseekers there’s as many still living on it permanently. How can you reasonably considered as looking for a job when you are unemployed a year or two or more down the line? It’s not like years ago where jobs were scarce like.

I explained earlier as well how I left a job because it was pure shite and was in another within a month. It was a horrible month on the welfare but nevertheless I had a job inside a month.

My first job as an adult was in a meat factory, this is only going back 7-8 years, but I walked in, filled in a form and walked out with a job starting the next morning.

There’s no excuse there’s just laziness. Disabilities are different if you’re not able to you’re not able to. It is what it is.

But how can I (and plenty of folks I know) find work with little trouble yet there’s so many people claiming the dole week on week? There’s no way they’re trying to find work. Like I wonder does the DEASP contact these companies?

Like if Johnny comes in and says

I applied for 5 jobs this week, one in centra, one in Aldi, one in dunnes, one in woodies & one in Tesco. Heard nothing back.

Does the officer not ring up the shops and ask the managers? Hey has Johnny applied for work here recently? Discuss with them why they were overlooked?

preaching the the choir I guess. I think we all know the welfare system is broken for a long time now.

Anyway in summary I agree that obviously it’s not that simple, however, it’s also not living the best life because you got the odd increase of a few bob or a couple of double payments. I dare say most of these double payments will be going to pay some outstanding bills.

And look I work 40-50 hours a week and I’m still barely paying my bills. I’d love a cash influx of €400, but I tell ya what, it won’t solve half my problems.

The bonus payments and once off lump sums and increases don’t bother me for the likes of disability payments, carers or WFP either, it’s specifically the career dole heads.

Might have to pull one of them aside and figure out how they’re all jetting off to Spain every year and driving BMW’s like I keep hearing about, I must be missing something.

All in all, sound enough budget I suppose but I feel like the working class are going to get bodied next year. That money they’re giving out has to come from somewhere… 😰

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121224206#Comment_121224206

I'm fully aware of why people end up on DA and my post indicated that they should be paid more.

Multi-generaltions of some families chosing not to work shouldn't be an option. They need a short, sharp shock - work or poverty.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121224245#Comment_121224245

...and again....

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121224206#Comment_121224206

thank god we dont live in an authoritarian nation, cause we know, they dont work too well!

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121224238#Comment_121224238

Short-term unemployment is different, I don't think any rational person would think that's enjoyable or easy.

But throw a few kids in the mix, pretend your partner is a lone parent, you claim the dole, your partner claims single parent allowance, HAP/nominal rent on a social house, medical card etc. and it's very doable.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121224261#Comment_121224261

As I said the best way to find out why would be the DEASP officers contacting employers to find out.

But let me ask you something, you’ve surely seen the stereotypical dole head?

Ungroomed, in tracksuits, hands down their pants (for whatever reason), fags hanging off the lips

would you hire one?

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121224261#Comment_121224261

Is this the point where you claim everyone and their cat has an undiagnosed mental health condition?

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121224279#Comment_121224279

go on shur, bedazzles us with your critical understanding of complex social sciences!!!!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121224268#Comment_121224268

I’m not even on about short term meself! I was on disability allowance for years.

I am technically speaking still unable to work, but I just couldn’t hack it anymore 😅

They’ve also made it so a lot of the entitlements and benefits phase out over time rather than all gone the moment you start your job

medical cards for example you keep for two years, free travel up to 5 years, HAP will remain in place just the differential rent goes up (how much you pay yourself) and can be brought back if you lose the job

The fact is the government has made it so easy to transition from welfare to full time work, I’m sorry but there’s just no excuse anymore!

rob316

There's a theory too that most of these social welfare payments go back into the local economy.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121224279#Comment_121224279

Remember COVID times where every second person seemed to be in the vulnerable category?

Speaking of which, the past two years were a missed opportunity to expand the tax base. There’s far too many workers not paying or paying next to nothing in PAYE. USC, as much as it pains me to say, is about the fairest tax we have on the books as very few get away with not paying it.

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121224289#Comment_121224289

The fact is the government has made it so easy to transition from welfare to full time work, I’m sorry but there’s just no excuse anymore!

I think we both need to sit down, we seem to be ... agreeing with each other.

🤣🤣

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121223783#Comment_121223783

Off topic but Intel is one of the few licensed to use ASMs chip manufacturing technology which there is a global surge to keep away from China. The push to move away from the Taiwan silo in semiconductor tech and moving more manufacturing to the US and also friendly countries like ireland in disaster recovery scenarios means intels Fab was well placed. So your linear reading if the situation isn't entirely accurate at all.

Frankly.

Quitelife

It would be interesting to know the disability percentage of the population in Ireland .

By all accounts a lot of members of an Irish group not known for getting a job are moved onto disability very easily for AHD etc to keep the unemployment figures down and not having to deal with them re seeking employment etc .