"I started a joke, that started the whole world ......" | Ireland v New Zealand.

theoneeyedman

NT hawking the idea that Ireland are still a better side then NZ this afternoon. Lol! Such Delusion! 'if the teams had to play again today, I'd fancy ireland to win'.

I've nothing against this team at all, but the noise and delusion surrounding it and spun by the media, especially those based in D4, is nuts. I'd matters too, because once sh1t like this keeps being repeated, it eventually feeds into the support and a little into players (to a certain extent), really do the team a huge disservice.

DeanAustin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241225#Comment_121241225

It’s analysis and conclusions based solely based on the outcome. Did the two NZ players bottle it by getting themselves carded which could have lost them the game? Did they perform at their absolute best?

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241170#Comment_121241170

I'm gutted like everybody else but I look at things from a different perspective that the all or nothing brigade. I value every achievement. I remember the joy I felt when we win the grand slam. I remember how proud I was when they beat New Zealand who were world no.1 at the time. I remember how delighted I was when they became no. 1 in the world which was an incredible achievement.

There's good days and bad days when you are fully invested in a team. This was a bad day and I've looked for reasons when it happened and posted my thoughts above.

World rugby need to come up with better organisation of the tournament. Every pool should have the highest seeds playing each other on the same weekend.

Rugbymad2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241035#Comment_121241035

Yes World Cup cos that’s the only tournament that all the big boys play in.Ireland fans keep on about the last 17 games yet worst NZ team in history(still put a win of 20 points against Ireland) terrible wales and England.cant remeber the last time a lot of good teams were this bad at the same time,then factor in the teams building for World Cup.ireland played the same team all World Cup yet prior all we were getting told was the depth of Ireland??which is non existent and lastnight proved it.ur probs are genuinely a joke,38yr old half back.back row is average no matter what u think.locks are even worse.good full back and that’s about it.

Leslie Purkiss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241126#Comment_121241126

Quinny, Wally, Axel are all ahead of him. Willie Duggan and Slatts just to name a few.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241062#Comment_121241062

Spot on, Francie. One single score separated two top class teams. Some a the commentary here reeks of delusional arrogance. Some almost making out we just had to show up to beat New Zealand… fooking New Zealand. Weird

Hoboo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121240911#Comment_121240911

What’s your definition of choked, I’m trying very hard to see how they did so last night. Jonnies missed penalty perhaps. Can’t see much else.

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241244#Comment_121241244

Nutstalk being Nutstalk. . . . .

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241247#Comment_121241247

It's analysis and conclusions based solely on the teams performance. Even if they won last night they still would have performed well below what they are capable of. But that would have been glossed over obviously.

DeanAustin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241297#Comment_121241297

But every time a side plays below their best, it’s not choking or bottling it. They are people, not machines so they don’t turn in perfect performances, much less turn them in every game.

If they’d won last night, would anyone be throwing around the term choker or bottler because they’d played below their best?

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241284#Comment_121241284

You seriously think Ireland played to their potential last night?

That they hadn't played much better recently? That they were not capable of playing any better than they did? That they didn't make mistakes they don't normally make?

Because underperforming when the pressure is on is choking, and anybody who says Ireland performed to their best last night is a goddamn liar.

Dubinusa

This was not a bottled job. N.Z were value for the win. You can't win if you don't have a set piece.

If the 15 version of N Z faced our set piece yesterday, they'd have buried us by half time.

I'm disappointed and frustrated. It's unlikely that we'd have won the cup with a malfunctioning line out and giving away scrum penalties.

It's coming together nicely for the kiwis. No major injuries and the boks are without Marx and LVDJ. France without Ntamack and willemse. If France lose or fail to win the cup is that a team of bottlers?

Farrell is a great coach! We are a fantastic side. He's pulled a holding bringing a team from the depth of crap to where we've come. I've full confidence in him going forward.

Disappointed for Sexton, an all time rugby great, and Earls . But life goes on. Reset and rebuild.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241302#Comment_121241302

Its not about playing below your best, its about playing below your best when it really matters.

The greats get called clutch, because they get the job done when it matters.

This wasn't clutch by Ireland, it was the other thing.

DeanAustin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241311#Comment_121241311

And sometimes, even the best, just don’t get the job done for various reasons - the main one being that when you’re playing elite sport, you tend to be playing against elite sportspeople. Especially when the margins are so fine. Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Messi, Pele, Nicklaus, Brady…they’ve all had their failures. They weren’t chokers.

fullstop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241284#Comment_121241284

I don’t have an exact definition (I’m sure there is one - a friend used to have a psychology babble one about performance being affected by extraneous factors) but I would class it as performance levels dropping due to psychological pressure.

Did you watch any scrums or lineouts? They were dismantled in both. Someone posted that Ireland haven’t led in a QF in 30 years. If it wasn’t an ongoing trend you could say the first 20 minutes last night was an aberration, but history shows a mental fragility in Irish teams on the biggest stage. Until they get some sort of ‘gimme QF in a WC I can’t see that changing any time soon unfortunately.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241302#Comment_121241302

When a team performs below their best in the most important game it usually is down to the fact that the pressure got to them.

No, but that doesn't mean it wouldnt have been the case.

Hoboo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241304#Comment_121241304

They didn’t perform to their best, we all agree, but not because they choked. That’s a label used when you don’t understand the demands of the game especially in a tournament setting.

We could talk about game time, rotation and fatigue, too much off time drinking wine and riding bikes, but choking, will you stop 😂.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241325#Comment_121241325

Yes, you could trot out a list of excuses, serial losers are good at that. Plenty of practice at the old excuses.

Better team, better form, minimal injuries, 2 opposition yellow cards. And yet they played below par and lost to a historically weak NZ team.

And people don't want to call it what it really is. No wonder history keeps repeating itself.

DeanAustin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241323#Comment_121241323

That’s your opinion. It’s not a fact.

Very few teams perform at their best in any game. Take soccer. Man U won the CL in 1999. Well below their best. Liverpool in 2005. Below their best particularly first half. Chelsea 2012, below their best. Liverpool 2019. Below their best. None of those teams are chokers. In fact, United in 1999 particularly are the opposite of chokers.

At that level, no team performs “at their best” because you have the best in the world on the other side of the fence stopping you from doing so.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241244#Comment_121241244

They are the same as the english soccer media.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241341#Comment_121241341

So New Zealand didn't perform at their best last night?

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241368#Comment_121241368

They were down to 14 men for 20 minutes. We couldnt capitalise. Id hate to see them at their best. There would have been more than 4 in it.

SlickRic

People are rationalising this as NZ putting in this world ending performance.

That's just not the case.

They defended well, but our work at the ruck area was appalling. I lost count of the one up runners we ran with. That has the square root of nothing to do with NZ. They simply tackled their hearts out and waited for mistakes, which we handed to them with isolated ball carriers - over and over again. Even JGP's try was lucky in the sense nobody backed him up. If he'd been stopped, NZ would've stolen.

NZ scoring off that line-out when Mo'unga ran through a chasm was simply bad.

NZ were up 13-0 without doing much other than defend well, wait for our set piece to fail, and hit one strike play.

There was never a world where you just turn up and beat NZ, but this narrative where they were incredible isn't entirely true. They defended well and hit us with sucker punches off the back of our failing set piece. Porter terribly naive in the scrum, and line-out calls a problem once again.

Not a choke job per se, but it was 100% one that was left behind.

DeanAustin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241368#Comment_121241368

You had two players out of the game for 10 minutes each. Would you say they performed at their best?

omega man

Looking on social media the majority of articles and comments talk of pride and the success / progress Andy has brought to Irish rugby. None of which I disagree with but I can’t help think that SA, France or NZ wouldn’t accept a QF exit. Are we too accepting?

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241271#Comment_121241271

I'd love to know how you decide this is the worst New Zealand team in history.

Are you going to have the same opinion if they win the World Cup?

If that's the case then you have already decided that every other team is awful.

This New Zealand team have won four consecutive Rugby Championships, that's tied most consecutive wins in the tournaments history along with the All-blacks from 05-08.

Could you read my post about the way Ireland looked very tired for the last twenty minutes and give your opinion on that?

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241408#Comment_121241408

Judging by some a the posts here we’re delusionally unaccepting

He's now asking for Farrell's head😅 Showing his rugby 'knowledge'.

walshb

There is a cohort posters/people who deliberately hyped up and overrated our chances of victory just so they could have a good slating of our team when we came up short. Always been same here

Coolcormack1979

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241244#Comment_121241244

Worth the tenner for gilroy that stuff