"I started a joke, that started the whole world ......" | Ireland v New Zealand.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121266127#Comment_121266127

Maybe because in the previous 2 months their "first 15" played three competitive tier 1 games and a second test game against new Zealand.

Whereas our lads hadnt played a competitive test game since march, plus our lads have the most managed minutes of all tier 1 teams.

Now maybe this "minute managing" policy might come up for debate in the review, but I don't expect player fatigue to be a significant factor in the QF defeat. New Zealand, who spread their minutes around, were just as fcuked during that game as we were

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121266127#Comment_121266127

I didn’t say it didn’t matter. But what you’ve put forward to show it matter is correlation rather than causation.

lawred2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249796#Comment_121249796

I doubt too many New Zealanders were that surprised to be honest.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121266299#Comment_121266299

'Surprised' might be too strong a word. I think many New Zealanders had faced up to the strong possibility of a defeat and didn't think this was going to be their day.

Iamabeliever

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121266146#Comment_121266146

First 15? Didn't they not rotate over the course of the rugby championship and the warm ups.

I imagine the mental drain is more of a factor and ensuring players are fresh and ready to go into a 80+ minute war. Not saying I know what a world cup pool game of high importance takes out on the players .

Ireland were inaccurate when it really mattered which is frustrating beyond belief everything will be questioned

sydthebeat

In a game of fine margins....... Question everything!!!!

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121266078#Comment_121266078

Well it won't be "proven" as it's impossible to prove.

Irish teams have spread out their squad minutes in previous tournaments and fall flat on their face.

thebaz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121265560#Comment_121265560

For me we lost the game in the breakdown , and in particular back row - who was the reserve 7 ?

Adequate replacement for 6 and 8 , but Van derF the only 7 , great player but not at his best , probably shattered from over use.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121266527#Comment_121266527

POM and Doris.

We brought 5 backrows, such is the nature of limited squads. Again, the real problem was Conan's injury.

Lucy8080

We gave them a try off our line-out. We had a 50/22 and coughed up the ball. We gave them a 13 point lead, ( some will argue that Barnes reading of the scrum cost us in that period), and won the rest of the game by 9 points whilst been held up over the line and missing a scorable penalty.

There is no need for a post mortem - some days you are good enough to win but circumstances don't go your way. Our first converted try came from turning down an easy 3 points. Unfortunately our line-out was inconsistent (maybe encroached upon illegally, at times?) .

N.Z. didn't get their win easy, and the only Q.F. they have ever lost came via a forward pass that was missed by the officials.

I'm still fcukin' sick thinking about what might have been, I still believe we are the better side. But, that's knock-out tourney-G.L. to N.Z.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121266583#Comment_121266583

As Mo'unga accurately said pre match "we dont have to be the best side in the world, we just have to be the best side on the day". Yes overall Ireland are still probably the better side but on the day imo NZL were definetly the better side and deserved the win imo.

thebaz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121266536#Comment_121266536

Neither POM or Doris or Conan are a 7

Baird and Beirne can also play in the back row , but again none are a 7 .

A proper backup 7 should have been brought , and cost last Saturday , as I keep saying VanderF was gassed from over use , or perhaps some loss of form , but was not the player of the 6 Nations, and we had no real alternative.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121266602#Comment_121266602

I'd take Doris at 7 in the world cup match over Scott Penny.

Even if a backup 7 had been brought, they almost certainly would not have been on the bench and they definitely would not have started over JvDF.

thebaz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121266627#Comment_121266627

Penney or any half decent back up 7 would have been fine against Tonga and Romania , Doris was been used exclusivly as 8,

whars your take , all was fine , no mistake made, even though we got beaten at the knockouts (again) . if you think Van derF was playing at his best you watched a different game to me.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121266746#Comment_121266746

POM started at 7 against Romania and even with cover it's likely JvDF would have started against Tonga so he wasn't coming in cold against SA.

Obviously mistakes were made, and no I don't think vdF was at his best. I think he was still playing at a higher level than any other 7 we have available and I don't think the 25 min against Romania is what killed him in the NZ match. He was always going to play against Tonga/SA/Romania anyway. Such is the nature of limited squads - it's rare to have a backup 7 on the bench.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121266583#Comment_121266583

and won the rest of the game by 9 points

We never led in the game, aside from starting at nil all, we were never level with NZ. We were playing catch up and when we nearly caught up, they went ahead again. We needed a try to win the game, that's huge when playing knockout rugby against a team like NZ.

robbiezero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121266583#Comment_121266583

Wow. Sher we were completely robbed so.

NZ missed a straight forward penalty too.

Had 14 men for a quarter of the game.

Defence for Akis try (brilliant as he was this tournament) was appalling. Not even Lomu should have been able to get a try from there.

Winning the rest of the match by 9 is if my aunt had balls stuff.

thebaz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121266846#Comment_121266846

We lost the game in the breakdown - and questions need to be asked why - Doris having his worst game didnt help - but, you have not convinced me that VdF was not over-used and therfore gassed, as the tournament progressed , he should have been used more wisely than in every game as you are endorsing. I wonder if Farrell was to do it again would he do so, doubt it.

AbusesToilets

You'd have to think McCarthy and Baird should've had more game time, between the Tonga and Scotland games. Beirne and VdF were no where near as effective as we needed them to be. Henderson was pretty quiet too. Perhaps Farrell ought to have been more ruthless in cutting Conan when he got injured. Having Prendergast or someone else available would've afforded more benefit in keeping players fresh.

Musicrules

Lads, we didn't have the bottle to win the game. That's what it came down to. I can't believe it's still up for discussion. We found a way to lose the game. Gave them a 13 point headstart because we were frozen with fear. Anytime we came back, we didn't have the stones to hit the front. Basic errors, missed kicks and so on. It's still very sore a week on and especially looking at how poor Argentina were. We blew our chance of a World Cup final and possibly winning the World Cup. That will hurt for a long time.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121268224#Comment_121268224

Would be sore for someone if they thought NZ were just going to passively allow us to win.

I don't think you understand the fundamentals of games between equally matched teams.

We had the winning of it and the losing of it and they had the winning of it and the losing of it. A close game were they prevailed. Time to get over it.

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121268289#Comment_121268289

It will take a long time to get over it. We are the better team, both teams play to their best and we would win. That's why it hurts so much. This World Cup was there for us, it could be a long time before we get a better chance. The combination of us having the best team in the World and all the other top nations bringing weak squads by their standards. We bottled it.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121268224#Comment_121268224

So frozen with fear we had two attacks on their line before Aki's try? 🙄

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121268355#Comment_121268355

Nah, you are bottling getting over it.

We lost. Multiple reasons but we lost to a team as capable as us of winning it.

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121268364#Comment_121268364

It is noticeable that the players not born in Ireland performed quite well and scored tries. It could be a phycological issue that Irish players have with the history of quarter final defeats? Like Mayo in All Ireland finals? They find a way to lose even when they should win.

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121268373#Comment_121268373

You don't think we bottled it, fair enough, that's your view. Plenty of us think the opposite but we all can agree that we missed a golden opportunity at this World Cup.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121268375#Comment_121268375

You mean like JGP, who unfortunately had one of his poorest games in the tournament and cost us multiple chances? Or Lowe, who's poor decision kicking lead directly to their first try?

Try better mate

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121268387#Comment_121268387

Yeh and every other team bar the winners will feel varying degrees of the same.

We went out in what was basically a final.

We didn’t bottle a moment of the game and challenged until the end. Not to be.

Put the big boy trousers on and try to respect the journey this band of men brought us all on.

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121268399#Comment_121268399

Tryscorer Gibson Park and I thought Lowe had a very good game. Aki also was excellent. On the other hand, most Irish born players didn't perform. Sexton had a stinker, he was clearly overemotional going into it and by the end his legs gave up on him. Probably Van Der Fliers worst game in years, Doris dropped a simple ball and was poor. I don't have all the answers as to what happened to them but nerves got the better of them in my view. Ah well, it will hurt for a long time but life goes on.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121268438#Comment_121268438

Of course you did. So convenient that these performances so well match the argument you're trying to make.