Life passing by people in their 30s

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273183#Comment_121273183

A family member returned from a year in Australia recently and not only did she not save, she built up a debt level similar to a significant house deposit.

We have lots of choice in our lives,we are entitled to live it as we choose, but all choices have consequences. Not everyone can understand that

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273350#Comment_121273350

Why do you think you can tar an entire demographic because of a single profligate family member?

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273360#Comment_121273360

I wasnt. I was giving an example an clearly stated I was talking about 1 person

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273380#Comment_121273380

And pretended it was representative by implication.

As I said before, this could have been an interesting topic but instead we got nothing but baseless generalisations.

CelticRambler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273328#Comment_121273328

And yet, depending on the day of the week and what contract I've signed up for, I work in each of those roles; and when I'm in festival mode, I'm working/dancing alongside all the other "boring people". Over this side of the Celtic Sea, we have exactly the same career opportunities and shortages as in Ireland, as well as many of the same societal challenges. It remains a lifestyle choice, and it is within the reach of just about anyone who's motivated to make such a choice.

timmyntc

Most peoples opinions on this subject are based on anecdote or even general hearsay, whereas the data does not back it up.

Housing is unaffordable for people due to massive asset price inflation relative to wages, not due to avocado toast or too many lattes. This is a position backed up by stats, unlike those deriding "millenials" for being entitled because "my mate goes on 3 holidays a year and then complains about housing".

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121272963#Comment_121272963

Oh that is not fairness, that is you trying to bend the world to your own agenda. People have been voting on all of this for decades and SF will be no different because they need the votes just the same as everyone else. We want cheap crap, low taxes and to own a house and anything that gets in the way of that will cost you votes - including cutting off the cheap labour supply.

As for the Irish language it has been on life support for the hundred years and is reaching it's ultimate end. Trying to discriminate against anyone on the basis of their knowledge of it is blatant racism and just shows how far these kind of people will to go with this nonsense especially since most of them would not have a clue what I was saying if I wrote this in Irish for them.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273272#Comment_121273272

I work as an accountant and I am well aware of the profits construction companies are making and yes they can afford to make much less profit and still be doing well. In new estates prices on the exact same type house can go up huge amounts in various phases of the development for no good reason. This is due to 2 things - demand and greed by developers.

The costs of building a council house is huge, The cost of renovating a council house is huge and often unnecessary. At the end of the day nobody is managing costs correctly in housing depts or housing charities - its not their money so its ok to spend it and not get value.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273340#Comment_121273340

I agree FF/FG and SF none of them will make a difference to housing whatsover.

They all make load of promises when not in power and then do sweet FA when they do get in power!

squidgainz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273393#Comment_121273393

Dont dare come on here spouting actual irrefutable fact! Thats the thing its not actually up for debate , its factual. The thread is meant to be about the social repercussions of that fact. Instead its auld codgers moaning about their relations going on holidays.

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273183#Comment_121273183

So many things nowadays compared to even years ago keep people from starting to earn.

Cheap flights - People spending their money more often to go abroad every chance they get.

Coffee craziness - Need I say more. 20 years ago you wouldnt be getting 3 or 4 coffees at €3 each BEFORE you even start the day.

Time in education - Now people seem to spend much longer in education than they used to. Delaying their entry into a career and earnings.

This need to travel for a few years or take career breaks at the beginning of your career.

People getting married / settling down later in life.

All of the things above and more have the combined effect of delaying peoples launch into responsible adulthood.

Things are just different these days, in more ways than just house prices.

Then you have the things that effect house prices. People coupling up to by houses becoming the way to buy a house. Singles cant compete with them. They compete with each other and drive the price up.

Rent controls - These have fcuked rent and purchase prices more than anything else has.

Charities, REITS, even the state jumping in to buy up anything built.

Its all a big mess. Dont know how it gets solved. I actually dont think it will ever be solved. There is a tipping point and we are well past it. there simply are never going to be enough houses to buy from here on. And all of the controls, like rent controls and the like, are only going to increase rents as they are driving investors out. The only investors entering are those backed by lease agreements from the state.

I could go on. But it depressing enough already so I will stop.

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273327#Comment_121273327

I asked him how much it costs him. €40 for a wash cut and beard trim. My local barber charges €12 for a haircut and comes to the house and is done with my hair in less than 5 minutes :)

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273476#Comment_121273476

Does he also tell you about his busy weekend banging supermodels?

AyeGer

Someone mentioned earlier Larry Goodman owning 2000 properties, there are many others like him gobbling up properties particularly in the larger towns and cities. An old teacher of mine owns 8 properties. These people drive up prices for younger people,

My first house I had a mortgage of €525 pm for a 4 bed house in a midsized town. I had friends renting in the same town for more money. Paying their rent to a guy who also lived in the town and owned multiple houses.

If we are serious about housing then we need a whole new model. A large percentage of properties should be set aside for purchase by actual homeowners who intend to live in those properties.

JDD

I'm in my late 40's, and had a hedonistic 20's and early 30's, regret nothing. But had to save like a mofo once I got married and had kids - which was bloody difficult with rent and childcare. It was quite the lifestyle shock. In the end, we saved half a deposit and we were helped out by our families to make up the rest. Otherwise we'd still be renting with three kids. We were very lucky.

I have thirtysomethings and twentysomethings working on my team, and I see a real difference between them. Not in their circumstances as such - they are all either living at home or in houseshares. But the twentysomethings are saving already for a property, and two of them have done since their very first jobs at 23ish. They don't drink much (I dunno about drugs), they holiday but not in far flung places, and they are way more mature than I was at that age. I think going through the recession in your early teens can have a serious effect. They all expect to get on the housing ladder at some stage.

The thirtysomethings are different. Their lifestyles are much more like mine was in my twenties. Gigs at the weekend, they all pay gym fees, they all seem to drink in high end places where cocktails are €15 a pop, they all go out to get lunch when they're in the office. And if they are single they're nearly resigned to their fates as regards buying a property, despite most having a chunk of savings. Just not enough to buy the property they want. Now I get it, if you are in your thirties, you're stuck in a bit of a quagmire. You're afraid to buy a one bed apartment, which would probably cost you upwards of €300k, in case you meet someone and want to start a family. Where we work, near the docklands, there were kids toys packing the balconies of most of the high end apartments in the area for years, as most were sold to single people or couples in 2006/2007. But if you want to save for a house, you really need two incomes, or choose to live in Wexford or Louth and commute up to Dublin 2/3 times a week. So it seems they are waiting it out. Waiting for house prices to come down, and in the meantime are trying to have the life that they planned to have (weekends away etc). It's a bit of a dangerous game, as the older they get, the less they can borrow. And they'd have to bank on quite a steep downturn, without the bank's becoming stricter on lending.

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273484#Comment_121273484

I think you must live in some sort of fantasy world :) If you dont think there arent lots of people that arent spending that kind of money on grooming products or hair cuts, colour, even teeth or botox, then either you only traveling in circles over 40 years old or you live in a different country.

The amount of young wans where I work not getting lip filler, botox all the time is shocking. Some of them even traveling abroad for teeth or hair treatment. All talking about it as if its totally nromal, which it is getting. The last one was a couple of them went to Turkey to get their lips tatooed. I sh!t you not. I never heard of it before.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273493#Comment_121273493

Many of the people of your teacher's generation took whatever they could grab from both ends.

The generation before them provided them with help and assistance. But then when the teacher's generation got into power, they decided that instead of helping to set up the following generation, they would instead hold onto everything and squeeze as much as they could out of them.

Look at what we had back in the 70's and 80's. Lot's of unemployment but the State built plenty of council houses so that the private market was depressed (why pay a load for a house privately when the council would build one for you and then allow you to buy it over time for below it's actual physical construction cost). That left the private property cheap for those that had jobs.

What is the system now that those people subsequently implemented? Well they tax the younger people and pump that tax into the private housing market to inflate the value of the assets they themselves got.

Your teacher probably had one of those gold plated pensions. A handy full time job that was in effect part time hours. And the security of the job (probably walked into it at 22) allowed them access to credit which they could leverage off and become rent-seekers. The ironic thing is that if that teacher had been in the higher performers among their peers, they would have left during one of the many brain drains.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121272857#Comment_121272857

It wasn't necessary, but thanks for proving me correct.

CelticRambler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273143#Comment_121273143

Equivalent to Connemara? Yes and no. West of Connemara, you have a few thousand km of ocean and not much else, so that changes things a bit. The further you go into a "far flung corner" of France, the closer you get to somewhere else (which, not coincidentally) is why we settled on the exact centre of France as our preferred location - a consistent 600-650km from every neighbouring country, or a single day's drive/bus/train journey. When I go to Switzerland next month, I'll do it by public transport - bus to the station, train to Paris, train to Basel, train to the village where the festival's being held, walk the last 1km. 60€ each way. My nearly-30-not-letting-life-pass-him-by son went to a water-hockey tournament in Milan last year, same story.

We might live in "the middle of nowhere" but we're not cut off from the rest of the world by any means. Oh, and we've just been hooked up to fibre broadband (the last of the local areas, because we already had really good 4G coverage)

As for "very little work opportunities" - what country are you talking about? Because there are notices and flyers and banners up all over this area offering full time jobs. With French lessons, if you need them. And if you're lucky enough to be in one of the "critical" professions, the local council will probably give you a house and an office/surgery to work from. And maybe a few tens of thousands of euros to get settled. That is the key difference I see: since the 90s, the attitude in Ireland has become very Americanised (?Americanized?) - your home is no longer a home, it's The Most Important Investment You'll Ever Make and it's notional monetary value is paramount. Similarly the arguments for and against childcare/stay-at-home parenting - so often it's framed in terms of "lost salary" rather than what additional value you might be able to contribute to the community by not being tied to a global corporation's working hours expectations.

Over here, property is part of the background: it's who you are and what you do that matters most. We were welcomed with open arms because (a) we were buying an un-occupied dwelling and bringing a bit of life back to this townland of 400 people; and (b) putting our four children into the local school increased the class sizes by 10% and kept the school from losing one of its two teachers. That gave the town council the breathing space to promote our village as a Good Place To Live, and we now have a population of about 500.

The many 30-somethings I cross paths with (and who sometimes end up staying with me for a while) are quite happy to dip in and out of salaried employment, and instead of saving their bollix off so as to be able to buy a 400k house, they'll offer their labour and creativity in return for board and lodgings and settle for somewhere like the 80k place for sale up the road from me. 8 beds, 4 reception, 2ha of land, 5km from nearest (toll-free) motorway. Needs (a lot of) renovation, but all the friends you've made helping other folk do the same will make short - and cheap - work of that.

Edit: I've just seen that the price for that place has been dropped to 60k. :-p

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273520#Comment_121273520

I think the fantasy world is extrapolating random anecdotes to general application.

I could make up an anecdote about a 28 year old living in a hut off-grid and with only a small solar panel who only eats what they grow in their garden who cycles everywhere and doesn't buy any tech or have a phone because they are saving for a house deposit and present that as proof that all 28 year olds have it extremely difficult.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273393#Comment_121273393

financialisation of our property markets has been a catastrophic failure, and we re not alone, many advanced economies are now experiencing this failure, and public policy and the institutions that have been implementing such policies, are dead set on continuing it!

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273541#Comment_121273541

All sounds like a very positive story. I still think it's a bit of a stretch to make out it's easy/seamless route to take.

Id agree that we all just fall into the pattern of life that we're most familiar with ie what you grow up in.

There'll always be people like yourself who go outside those parameters and more power to it but I think moving to a tiny town in France to avail of cheaper property prices and potentially do odd jobs sounds like a much harder path than staying in Ireland surrounded by your family/freinds and buy a more expensive house.

What youre describing is more like what I'll do over the next few years as a holiday home. Only in northern Spain.

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273502#Comment_121273502

I remember watching some irish show about doing up a house. Might have been one of the Dermot Bannon ones a few years ago

Was watching it with my mother.

The couple were early 30s and had good jobs. I remember being flabbergasted at what they were planning to spend on the house. But looked like it was going to be extraordinary. The house turned out to be amazing. Marble walls and floors everywhere. Huge wall sized windows. Sound system installed in the whole house. Jacuzzi and sauna room. Gold leaf in the bathroom. They said the kitchen cost €75k alone. They went over budget by around 50%. They said they had to borrow more money from the bank and asked their parents to borrow the extra money and still had to ask their grandparents to borrow more for them. And had to get a few loans off friends.

So heres what happened next.

My mother turned around to me and said dont ever you even think about coming to us with that kind of sh1t.

Always willing to stir the pot, I said why not?

Response - "Ungrateful little spoiled sh1ts decide they want an amazing house they cant afford. They run out of money and put their parents and grandparents in debt. Then they sit there showing the world around their lovely house, meanwhile their parents and grandparents are living with what they earned all their lives, now in debt up to their eyeballs, living on bread and water probably, for two gobsh!tes who cant possibly pay what they borwoed from the bank plus everyone else they borrowed in a reasonable timeframe. This is just two arses banking on everyone else dying soon, so they can have what they cant afford. And the worst part is thinking about their parents and grandparents sitting in fron tof the telly watching this while eating their bread and water. They must be so proud"

That was me told.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121271837#Comment_121271837

I know a few people like that. Good solid jobs during the recession, bought houses for very cheap post 2008 when market was at it's lowest. Small mortgages. Now they look down on people who struggled through that period, and laugh at them not being able to buy a house in today's market.

CelticRambler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273582#Comment_121273582

Who said anything about "odd jobs" ? Sure, that's what you might do in your spare time, but there are plenty of "real" jobs available too. Our local county town is a hub for aeronautical engineering, if you want to put your physics degree to good use (and many of the ads specify fluency in English is mandatory). Between my house and the local supermarket, there are recruitment ads for specialised builders (especially roofing), mechanics, various roles in the food service industry, general shopkeepering and wait-staff for restaurants. There's huge demand for home-care for the elderly, and a chronic shortage of nurses, pharmacists, dentists, vets and doctors.

Ironically, one of the reasons for that shortage is because it's so easy to get out and to work somewhere else - if you're the kind of person who feels the need to earn Big Money.

squidgainz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273584#Comment_121273584

But im sure it was utter horseshit. I say their parents and grandparents were quite rich.

squidgainz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273393#Comment_121273393

This post needs to be put at the start of the thread.

squidgainz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273582#Comment_121273582

Course its a stretch , the chap moved to feckin rural France. Most irish people have a zero% interest in that.

It's the gods of the market.

Spending habits have little to do with it, not nothing to do with it though, all stereotypes have some kernel of truth.

This is a good example and it is something that is happening wholesale if an individual has a degree or professional capable of giving them an income of 50 to 55k for example and they choose to get a low-level civil services job paying 30k because they don't like their original job that choice is going to have huge effects on their life, it the same with choosing to be in music or art or being an actor.

I have a lot of empathy for those on their own trying to buy who have done everything right, stuck with a job, saved, and still can't get anywhere.

As for young people as far as I can see it is divided between, expensive hair, a cute dog, an expensive car, clothes, and cocktails everything has to be new, both males and females vs everything from pennys or secondhand, board games, cheap fights, Airbnb, saving.

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273632#Comment_121273632

I have friends who got deposits from their parents for houses. Not quite in the style of that TV show but their parents were definitely not rich. Once of my uncles even tried to borrow off me (and im pretty sure my parents too) to get money together for my cousin for his house deposit.

squidgainz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273661#Comment_121273661

But this is all anecdotal crap , its not adding to the point of the discussion.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273660#Comment_121273660

...the only problem is, the 'gods' are actually human created, backed by bullsh1t theory by so called 'invisible' people(the 'invisible hand', yea right!)....

...as others have said its got virtually nothing to do with the actions of younger generations, its primarily due to the actions of us older, asset owning generations, as we ve been willing on continual asset price inflation, and continually voting in governments that also advocate this approach...

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273648#Comment_121273648

I applied for a few positions in Paris. Does that count? Got rejected from one with the efficiency I'd expected from the Germans.

To be honest, I'd be willing to head back to rural Ireland if I could find both work and a place to live. The housesharing thing is hell and it only gets worse with age.

leanbh

Curious to know where you live in France celticrambler?

Was language barrier a big issue- obv not for your adult children now.

I've visited rural France Normandy a few times and it's beautiful. But culturally, is it hard to break in? Also is it true that administration is a nightmare or is that just a myth?

notAMember

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273493#Comment_121273493

Explain it to me... How does having rental properties available, owned by a teacher, or some lad in the hick town, or larry goodman, drive up prices for anyone else? More rental properties available = lower rent and lower demand for other available housing.

Is it that you think the properties are held vacant or something? Because that typically isn't the case, it's actually the complete opposite. Rental unit providers do the work to keep our housing stock up to spec, habitable and occupied. There is a huge demand for rental units, larry and the teacher provide them. We don't all want to leave our parents house and buy the gaff next door to live there til we go to the grave. People are mobile, rental is needed for those are don't want or need to buy.

And sorry, but did you fail maths? Of COURSE renting is more money than a mortgage. The rental owner has to pay the mortgage, AND the tax (at 52%) and the upkeep, insurance, furniture etc out of the rent. Basic sums there lad.

squidgainz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273705#Comment_121273705

Haha Paris is a bit different. Its just not very helpful rhetoric. Oh why not move to rural france. The thread was meant to be about the social impact on young people who cant afford housing. Its an irrefutable fact that housing is too expensive for people but you still have old farts on here talking about their cousins getting lends of money for deposits , moving to rural france and just pure bollixology.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121272819#Comment_121272819

Last paragraph's a bit harsh, no?

I've largely shed my fondness for London but the fact remains that most of the jobs I have a reasonable chance of getting are located around here. Anywhere else I've tried has shot me down. I even looked at Galway recently and it's only marginally cheaper than London. I saw a vacancy in Meath but the town the company is near had one rental property, a 4-bed place for €2,500 a month.

I get that you did something very brave and are reaping the well-earned rewards but by the sounds of it, for most people that wouldn't work for various reasons. It's a heck of a thing to move to another country where you don't speak the local language. It's a bit hard to believe that rural France is much better than rural England or Ireland for those without money.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273707#Comment_121273707

Somewhere near the Airbus factory and the French woodstock he said

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273741#Comment_121273741

In fairness, if one could get a job they may find rural France a nice place to live. I find it a bit hard to believe that French politicians are better than their Irish counterparts. The French aren't famous for being hospitable after all. I only applied for the Paris thing because of my niche skillset which is borderline worthless.

I'm on the wrong side of 35 and I just want to stop housesharing. It's literally the one thing I want and I'm trapped in it.

Kurooi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273193#Comment_121273193

Are they happy, or forced to live that way through exploitation? Are people in New York or Hong Kong the "happy" we are aiming for?

Ultimately we should be looking out for the well being of our society, a 35sqm box is perfect in Hong Kong or New York where they need to cram as many people to every block as possible to satisfy capitalist interests, but it's by no means something we should model after. Surround the silicon docks of Dublin with those apartments but nothing outside of that.

At what point did we decide this now is the last generation, we don't need families, we do away with old people, we don't need humanity we can just stuff everyone henceforth into boxes and let them live and die there, their only purpose is to work and occupy as little space and make as little sound as possible outside their daily grind lest they upset our corporate owners.

Blaming young people for their own situation is a social media construct.

However, it is easier to have empathy for a young person who sticks to a job they do not like, saves, works hard does everything that society expects them to do, and still can't get anywhere vs a forties something artist complaining, seeming to have no insight into how their choice of career might affect their life it all sounds so vacuous and self-indulgent.

Naomi Kline has an interesting point about the body worship( gym culture) and grooming that goes on with some young people, it is a reaction to the precarious life that modern capitalist society produces.

AyeGer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273725#Comment_121273725

Why the anger notAmember? Quite an aggressive post.

Are you serious having a go at me regarding mathematical competence when you just admitted you don’t understand how people buying up multiple houses doesn’t drive up prices for first time buyers?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273774#Comment_121273774

I was talking about individuals who are on their own and the apartment would be surrounded by excellent services I wasn't proposing families live like that. vs living with their parents. I am not sure wan the answer is but capitalism and consumerism shows no signs of going anywhere soon.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273725#Comment_121273725

You post this stuff repeatedly on many forums - but you still can't grasp the basics. No matter how many times it is explained to you

The required hurdle rate for an investment would be related to the cost of capital, but not the capital repayments themselves.

For renting a property, you exchange the income from your rent for the cost of that capital i.e. the interest. You can take capital appreciation and depreciation into account.

In a normal market, renting should never be more than a mortgage. Unless you are talking about special cases such as very short term rentals.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273661#Comment_121273661

I'm already saving for my kids house deposit. 😂

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273183#Comment_121273183

I know people who traveled to make money. They went abroad to teach English. And they managed to save enough to bring back a deposit. Something they would never have managed here. I know because they tried.

Also, travelling doesn't cost a lot of money. I've backpacked myself and it wasn't expensive. If you want to stay longer you just bring enough money for a month or so.

AyeGer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273876#Comment_121273876

First time I ever left Ireland was at 18 to work in Holland for the summer. I had a great time but still managed to save money. Same when I went to America. I didn’t scrimp and save but alway put money into savings. I bought my first house at 30.

As you say people can travel and still work and save money. I’d highly recommend it.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273218#Comment_121273218

I had friends living in Taiwan. Kitchens are really unusual there because there's so much street food available in a short walk.

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273619#Comment_121273619

Certainly sounds like the land of milk and honey and a good option for anyone struggling in Ireland looking to really make a big change.

I've been fortunate enough to forge a decent life in Ireland and I'll be joining you on the continent for a decent chunk of winters in the next few years with wfh(anywhere) being a runner.

But I'm glad to be part of the lucky ones that have a home on this wet rock as nobody gets me like the Irish!

CelticRambler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273707#Comment_121273707

Not

Somewhere near the Airbus factory and the French woodstock he said

There is a lot more to the French aerospace industry than Airbus; and there are lots (and lots and lots) of festivals all over the country, few of which share any of the vices or virtues of Woodstock. Anyway, "dead centre" will get you close enough - a hundred km in any direction doesn't really change anything.

My Leaving Cert French was good enough to get me in the door, and we'd spent a full year familiarising the children (then 4-8 years old) to basic vocab like colours and numbers. When we went down to collect them from school at the end of their first day, they told us to go home - they'd received their bus passes during the afternoon and wanted to hang out with their new French friends until the bus came.

Language and attitude barriers are only a problem if you make them so. Most of the British people I know who had/have problems have them because they refuse to drop the "this isn't how we do things in England" attitude. Well, no - this isn't England (or Ireland) and some things are done differently - like buying and selling houses, for a start. There are no bidding wars here: you put your house on the market for n-thousand euros, and as soon as someone comes along and offers you that amount, you're locked into the sale/purchase. No gazumping, no backing out on either side without a hefty penalty.

Similarly for admin - yes, sure, there are some processes that are maddening (mainly if you want to employ salaried workers), but I've had more hassle trying to operate an Irish-registered business. For the most part, though, it's simple box-ticking. As long as you tick all the relevant boxes, you'll get an answer within a month (and, for most permissions, if you don't get an answer, the answer is "yeah, go ahead"). Want to organise an event and serve artisan beer and locally-made wine? Fine. Fill in a form telling the local police that you'll be serving drink on Saturday night till 4am on Sunday. There's your drinks licence, job done (oh, and yeah, it's fine to have children there till 4am too).

And guess what - a load of those children will have 30-year old parents, not letting children or housing cause them to miss out on life.

But here's the thing: I can literally count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I've met another Irish person in any of the many and varied parts of non-Tourist France I visit, and there's only one of them (nice lady from Wexford, works as a home help to the elderly) that I've seen more than once. As I remarked on another thread, the Irish seem to have become so obsessed with the anglophone world as the only viable alternative that they allow themselves to be sucked in by the rude/arrogant/unwelcoming stereotypes.