A Woke Society? **Mod Warning In Post #435**

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121336736#Comment_121336736

Yes.

It's mad that I get blamed for the life outcomes of travellers. It's as if they have no agency.

A serious socialist politician would be honest, and instead of blaming everybody else, would point that a lack of engagement with education and skills will lead to poor outcomes.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121336783#Comment_121336783

Can you define "woke"?

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121336785#Comment_121336785

Travellers make what is known as the progressive sacred cow list and therefore most ( if not all) misdemeanours and shortcomings can be blamed on systematic prejudice

it’s actually incredibly condescending towards what are native Irish people

if woke progressives really cared about travellers ( instead of mining them for virtue ) , they would work to see travellers abandon their hugely self damaging “ culture “

but isn’t that the whole basis of wokeness, sounding virtuous, doing something meaningful and transformative is an optional extra

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121336777#Comment_121336777

Any proof that all genocides began as grievances as per your claim?

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121336773#Comment_121336773

true, the whole class struggle thing at least had some logic. Today you can be some trust fund kid with a university degree and still expect society to treat said person as oppressed. Its basically a posh cope philosophy for losers with a lot of privilege and a magnet for people with dark triad personality traits

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121336796#Comment_121336796

A near religious adherence to approved respectable progressive positions on any given topic

think of these like woke commandments

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121336825#Comment_121336825

I'll take that as a no.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121336832#Comment_121336832

Oh my dear boy , you do enjoy employing the same methods repeatedly

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121336838#Comment_121336838

Ok, then. Who approves these positions? What are their names? How are they elected or appointed?

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121336847#Comment_121336847

this isn’t China or Iran , no singular top down edicts , they take hold , gather momentum and become the “ respectable opinion “ when various influential progressives start employing them and demanding others get in line

celebrities often see embracing them as career wise and this influences youth etc

lumphammer2

'Woke' is a made up term ... by those who want to oppress others who do not share their self given 'right' to criticise others ... the real term for the anti woke brigade is racist ... misogynist ... sectarian ... etc ... the anti-'woke' brigade like to talk about 'free speech' and their 'right to offend' and the like ... they want to stir up trouble ... and they usually are religious nutters or panderers to religious nutters ...

Idiots like Ron de Santis are examples of panderers to the anti wokers ... boasting like 'Florida is where woke comes to die' .... what a loser! I do not think de Santis believes what he says ... but he is pandering to an audience who can be lead along by a Pied piper of Gilead ... Donald Trump is doing the same and leading more people down the Handmaid's Tale rabbithole ... De Santis and Trump could well inspire a tsunami of hatred and fanaticism that would swallow them whole and set America in directions they didn't even intend because of their short-termism and power hungry agendas ... when you empower an out of control mob that is what happens ... January 6th 2021 is just a taste of what these losers could inspire ...

Sadly those who fall for this anti woke agenda do not know where it leads ... it may start off with Covid conspiracies ... then general criticism of the government and then onto more sinister racist and sectarian agendas ... ultimately anti woke leads to WAR ...

Some anti woke world leaders past and present .... Adolf Hitler, Pol Pot, Osama bin Laden, Ali Khamenei/Mojtaba Khamenei, Slobodan Milosevic, Donald Trump, Benjamin Netanyahu .... some anti woke organisations ... the Nazis, Al Qaeda, Taliban, ISIS, Paydari, the Tea Party factions of the Republican Party and their descendants ... enough said ....

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121336874#Comment_121336874

If you can't define it, just say so.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121336683#Comment_121336683

By focusing on individuals you can ignore the systemic issues, nice way to stay comfortably ignorant.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121336878#Comment_121336878

Kitchen sink only thing missing

K-9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121336607#Comment_121336607

Are you being serious?

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121336802#Comment_121336802

Their whole culture was effectively made illegal by the state and they were forced to live in ghettos. That is where the troubles began, but context just muddys the waters of hating the dysfunctional travellers.

K-9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121336908#Comment_121336908

Its like saying, "here's a copy of The Secret, go have positive thoughts and you'll get everything you want". Here's a self-help book while you're at it.

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121335620#Comment_121335620

I asked a question.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121336717#Comment_121336717

You need to be more precise with your initial statement, my comment was tongue in cheek:

• Until the last 30 years, LGBT+ people were treated horrifically everywhere. Now they only have to fear for their lives in parts of Africa and most of Asia.
• Women were little more than property in a lot of the world until recently. In some countries they still are.
• Sex and children born out of wedlock were heavily stigmatised in the west and still are in large parts of the world
• Genital mutilation is traditional in many countries, including North America for men

There are more "traditional norms" I can name that are abhorrent. But I think I have made my point

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121336589#Comment_121336589

I don't reduce people to their group identity, I am woke. Square that.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121336989#Comment_121336989

In the USA, gunning down children is both regular and tolerated but the real problem for some people is that the new Spiderman is black.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121336736#Comment_121336736

Everybody is the primary factor in their own success or failure in life. This is a strong opinion I hold, I haven't seen anything that disproves it yet but I won't claim it as a fact.

Now, because I hold this opinion it doesn't mean I don't also think that some groups have handicaps that meant that they have to work harder to be successful.

This is woke.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121336978#Comment_121336978

I know you did. I am willing to answer it once you make a poxy point.

"I'm only asking questions" is the worst form of debate.

techdiver

A few observations from scanning this thread from someone new to the discussion here.

I considering myself a liberal. I'm a straight white male in his early 40's. Voted in favour of all liberal referenda (abortion, marriage equality act etc). Campaigned for LGB rights in college (back when it was LGB). I have seen discussion here that conflates voting for marriage equality as qualified support for Trans rights. I would not agree with this. I know many people who voted in favour of the above measures that think trans ideology has completely jumped the shark. I'd love to know the line on self identification? Should biological men be entitled to identify as a 6 year old girls?

Someone mentioned a while back that what harm is there is just accepting that people can self identify as what ever they want?

Here is where I stand. I will be polite and not cause undue offense to a trans identified person with a few notable expectations.

1. A biological male identifying as a woman should not be permitted to use female only facilities (toilets, changing rooms etc). Although I have seen many places change their toilets to sex based as opposed to gender based which is clever.
2. A biological male identifying as a woman should not be able to complete against biological females in sport.
3. A biological male should not be permitted into female prisons.

I accept "1" could possibly be addressed by gender neutral safe space (individual locked spaces perhaps), but "2" and "3" are where I draw a firm line and anyone who doesn't believe it is a complete dangerous idiot in my opinion. These are the same people who are not happy with trans rights being improved but it must be at the expense of others especially biological females.

Regarding sport, once you have gone through male puberty you have an irrevocable genetic advantage. In some sports (like running and other track and field sports) that will just result in an unfair playing field but for other sports (contact sports) will results in significant danger to the opposing players.

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337036#Comment_121337036

How can I debate/discuss/make a point about it with you when I don’t know your stance? I asked a question to ascertain your position. I’m not a mind reader. The fact you are so defensive about the question says a lot.

I never said what you have in quotes.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121336954#Comment_121336954

Nonsense , the state has bent over backwards indulging them

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337226#Comment_121337226

From about 1985 on travelers were treated more equitably by the state. Do we ignore everything that happened before that?

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337155#Comment_121337155

None of that is unreasonable, but that not where most anti-trans people leave it.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337221#Comment_121337221

You can debate by making a point. I am defensive because I have to put up with too much of this nonsense over the years - that's what it says and nothing else. What else do you THINK it says?

I don't agree with quotas in general, but in very specific circumstances they can be helpful. Happy? No make your point.

j2

So what is the best thing the "woke" have achieved in recent years? What have they gone on to achieve