A Woke Society? **Mod Warning In Post #435**

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337226#Comment_121337226

As a general comment, you seem to have a very narrow view on what we should consider important. Especially when it comes to societal norms. You seem to want to take a snap shot of how society is now and say "this is fine" and somehow that makes it all fine. I don't understand this attitude. When I grew up it was legal for a man to rape his wife and it was illegal for 2 men to have sex. I am only 45, I am not an elder statesman.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337155#Comment_121337155

I agree about the sport. The prisons, I don't know.

But the bathrooms - why? It's a jacks

K-9

They had quotas for Catholics applying for the PSNI to counter systemic discrimination. Can't see how that was a bad thing myself.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337334#Comment_121337334

Ireland: marriage equality and repeal the 8th.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337379#Comment_121337379

One of those circumstances I agree with.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337317#Comment_121337317

So in other words travellers have gotten a better deal for longer than northern catholics have

you don’t hear about 80% plus unemployment levels amongst Catholics in north

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337343#Comment_121337343

You’re more or less the same age as me , I never remember a time when women here were mistreated and neither does my mother who is seventy five, the notion that we were once like Afghanistan is a fever dream of progressives

in 2023 women are favoured over men in many areas

CalamariFritti

A) Respecting (or disrespecting if they're arseholes) other people regardless of their skin colour, religion, health, age, sex, sexual orientation (I hope I didnt forget something) is normal. I dont have to be anyones 'ally' to be respectful and tolerant.

B) Woke is when you do all of the above but tell and berate every one else about it all day long on social media. Potentially with a degree in doing so. And potentially being very intolerant towards people who are happy to do just A but not B.

I suspect a lot of people who wave the woke flag do so for the purpose of self-aggrandisation and self-gratification. But that could just be me being annoyed with the Bs.

Woke is not left as such. Left is workers rights no exploitation social justice keeping capitalism in check (not doing a good of that lately). Woke is a distraction from what left should be about. Therefore no surprise woke is now being embraced by centrists, mainstream and corporates.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337543#Comment_121337543

Women are mistreated every second of every day, just not in Ireland as much anymore.

Again, when we were kids it was legal for a man to rape his wife. The Magdelane laundries were still in full operation and women could not have lifesaving abortions. My mother had to give up her civil service job when she got married. No one said it was Afghanistan, but it wasn't good.

It was illegal for 2 men to have sex.

When your mother was an adult hundreds of babies were being buried in a septic tank in Tuam by nuns.

These are all facts, you need to take off your rose tinted glasses. If you think society didn't need to progress to protect vulnerable people, I have no idea what country you grew up in.

This isn't a fact, but I think it only became illegal to beat your wife in Ireland in 1996.

I'll say it again, it's absolutely bizarre you are trying to defend how Ireland used to be.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337522#Comment_121337522

So we ignore everything that happened up to then? It's like you want to wipe the slate clean every day.

K-9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337543#Comment_121337543

There was a civil service marriage ban until the mid 70s, no abortion until recently, no contraception till the 90s.

Maybe your mother was fine with that but plenty of others weren't.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337543#Comment_121337543

Women had less rights so it was at the discretion of the husband how well they lived. Since most people are (and alway have been) relatively "woke", most women did not suffer but many lived in abusive relationships with no way out.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337628#Comment_121337628

See two can play at that game

the vast majority of homeless people ( real homeless ) are men

in divorce cases , the woman is guaranteed to see a more favourable judicial outcome , especially if children are involved

heath spending prioritises women’s conditions far more than men’s

suicide overwhelmingly involves men

j2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337491#Comment_121337491

So woke can be defined? Also can I blow an enormous load over your neck, chest, and face?

threadbanned

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337720#Comment_121337720

This isn’t a game we are playing. You are not refuting a single point I made. Ireland progressed from being structurally biased against women because of people being socially progressive - this is my point. I never said it was a paradise for men.

So if all of the above is true now. They’re social norms. I thought you wanted to adhere to social norms? Your arguments are all over the shop man.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337803#Comment_121337803

I defined woke many times on my own terms. The other side has not.

Thats a lovely offer, but I’m married.

K-9

80s Ireland would have changed anyway or something.

So families would just stop putting young girls in mother and baby homes, priests would stop abusing children, bishops moving them to another parish when they got a bit much, doctors not giving contraception to slutty girls who had sex outside marriage. All this would have changed anyway over time.

Or Ireland 30 or 40 years ago was an idyllic conservative Catholic state. No abortion, divorce, contraception, gay people, sexualy abused children, domestic violence etc. Twas bliss. Sure what would you want a divorce or be gay for?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337803#Comment_121337803

Two questions: 1 - exactly how can we quantify an achievement by being down to "woke" or something that would have happaned anyway? -- and 2- and are you open enough to accept an honest answer should one be provided?

The second one, I see, has already been asnwered.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337803#Comment_121337803

Two questions: 1 - exactly how can we quantify an achievement by being down to "woke" or something that would have happaned anyway? -- and 2- and are you open enough to accept an honest answer should one be provided?

The second one, I see, has already been asnwered.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337720#Comment_121337720

It's not a game.

MRA's don't care about men. They mere use whataboutery to vent their antipathy towards feminism.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121338177#Comment_121338177

They care more about selling you “content” and “seminars”.

People like Jordan Peterson peddling absolute “anti woke” drivel to young impressionable men are the real enemy of men. Telling them that it’s the “woke moralists” and “post modern neo Marxists” that are destroying society when neither group really exist.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121338408#Comment_121338408

Absolutely. I was thinking more of sites like this where the concern for male suicide victims and divorced fathers only appear on threads about non-related topics.

With regards to Peterson, my favourite podcast did a two-parter on him for anyone who is interested:

https://twitter.com/OriginStorycast/status/1713848131719176222?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1713848131719176222%7Ctwgr%5Ef8897491ab1bdaabcfca7804d4608b24a082fff7%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boards.ie%2Fdiscussion%2F2057801641%2Fjordan-peterson%2Fp16

https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1716469776032182454?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1716469776032182454%7Ctwgr%5Ef5dc5cbcd359e545a15846adc08ec227ac83c154%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boards.ie%2Fdiscussion%2F2057801641%2Fjordan-peterson%2Fp17

Mr. Grinder

Being woke is not a problem (assuming you are going by the correct definition of the word).

But being a 'woke scold' is and they can all just fek off.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337543#Comment_121337543

My seventy seven year old mother has given me loads of example. Being sexually harassed by lecturers was the norm when she went to university. When she married, she was required to give up her state job. In relation to child birth, she stated to me that in the event of it being a choice between her life and a yet to be delivered baby, my father and his family would have said prioritize the baby over her life. So yep, she was less equal in loads of ways.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337334#Comment_121337334

Nothing.

Geuze

This is one example of how woke people think.

They ignore facts and science.

They make excuses for poor behaviour, and instead blame "society" for travellers life outcomes, or high crime rates among black people in the USA.

They feel that many groups are "oppressed".

Of course, the opposite is the truth.

They say that this woman's overweight body is the fault of "the patriarchy", or "society", whereas the truth is that it is her own fault.

Personally, I am overweight, but I know it's all my own fault.

Geuze

There are loads more example.

"Woke" people say that all asylum-seekers are genuine.

They ignore the dozens of news articles on a daily basis that report on the bogus asylum seekers.

The volume of these news reports is such that we can state with confidence that the vast majority of AS are making bogus claims.

The "woke" defy the truth, they simply ignore it, as their minds are infected.

They ignore all evidence.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/two-thirds-of-failed-asylum-seekers-had-used-false-identities/26855916.html

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339952#Comment_121339952

I find it interesting you ignore the debate so far and post a list of stuff you don’t like and call it all “woke”.

It’s a decent indicator that you don’t really know what woke is, you just want to be angry at someone.

Peregrinus

"Woke" people say that all asylum-seekers are genuine.

Please post a link to anyone at all, "woke" or not, saying that all asylum-seekers are genuine.

They ignore the dozens of news articles on a daily basis that report on the bogus asylum seekers.

The volume of these news reports is such that we can state with confidence that the vast majority of AS are making bogus claims.

Logic is not the strong point here, obviously.

There are thousands of asylum seekers in Ireland each year. "Dozens" of newspaper reports of bogus claims can't possibly prove that thousands of claims are bogus; they can only prove that dozens of claims are bogus. And, even that, only if we take newspaper reports to be "proof", which I think requires a fair degree of credulosity.

The "woke" defy the truth, they simply ignore it, as their minds are infected.

They ignore all evidence.

This is deeply, deeply ironic.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121271184#Comment_121271184

That isn’t what woke originally meant? Nor is it what woke means today. Being woke always meant being awoken to issues that were perceived to be social injustices, with the idea that people needed to be awakened to those injustices.

The term originated in the US among black slaves, and gained momentum during the campaign to abolish slavery with a new generation of voters (white men, because only white men could vote at the time), who lent their support to Republican Abe Lincoln. I love this bit of the article:

There were even anti-Wide Awake factions, like the Chloroformers, who would put the Wide Awakes to sleep.

https://daily.jstor.org/abolitionist-wide-awakes-were-woke-before-woke/

History has a way of repeating itself, and around the same time, in Ireland, Daniel O’ Connell, whom we all learned in primary school history was responsible for Catholic Emancipation, would by todays standards have been considered woke, for his condemnation of slavery and his aversion to violence, and his aims to achieve social justice through political activism. The Irish in the US however weren’t interested in aligning themselves with black slaves, seeing the abolition of slavery as really not their problem:

In the 1850s, anti-Catholic and anti-immigrant Know Nothing Republicans had sought to restrict the rights of the Irish immigrants to the United States, and during 1860 there had been a serious though unsuccessful attempt to include an anti-immigrant plank in the Republican Party platform.

Maguire also feared for the fate of the Irish in America whom, he considered, a war over slavery and secession could harm disproportionally, warning – even before major combat operations – that because there were such large numbers of Irish people in America (almost 2 million in 1860), the ‘American War touches Ireland more nearly than any other country in the World.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/0144039X.2016.1208911#:~:text=The%20Irish%20in%20America%20were,the%20slavery%20question%20is%20exaggerated.

They’d good reason to be concerned in fairness, the rise in the population of Irish Catholic immigrants to the US were making the natives uneasy (and I’m not referring to the Indians), and the natives weren’t having it -

The Philadelphia nativist riots (also known as the Philadelphia Prayer Riots, the Bible Riots and the Native American Riots) were a series of riots that took place on May 6—8 and July 6—7, 1844, in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, United States and the adjacent districts of Kensington and Southwark. The riots were a result of rising anti-Catholicsentiment at the growing population of Irish Catholicimmigrants. The government brought in over a thousand militia—they confronted the nativist mobs and killed and wounded hundreds of anti-Catholic rioters.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_nativist_riots

So to answer the original question as to whether or not Ireland is becoming a woke society? The answer can only be no, Ireland is not becoming a woke society where people are too scared to say anything as it may offend. Nor are we becoming a more tolerant or easier led society - there have always been people in Irish society who were motivated to help others, and there will always be people in Irish society who are only interested in what’s in it for themselves. I don’t think that’s a phenomenon peculiar to Irish society though.