Over 200,000 Spanish Minors Sexually Abused by Roman Catholic Clergy

Princess Calla · 31-10-2023 11:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121304334#Comment_121304334

I wonder once they remove the prep from schools regarding communion and confirmation, pushing all the prep work , church meetings etc onto parents will there be a significant drop in numbers obtaining the sacraments.

The amount of parents I've talked to who feel uneasy, but still sign their kids up " cos that's what you do"* is absolutely baffling to me.

*in my view you stick to your principles, if you feel uneasy , say no, I'm not doing this! But hey ho each to their own n all that!

Donald Trump · 31-10-2023 11:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121304461#Comment_121304461

Well it's all part of the hypocrisy of the majority of those that moan about these things and who won't get off their arse and provide an alternative. It's easy to moan and then mask that laziness by giving out some more.

happyoutscan · 31-10-2023 4:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121290573#Comment_121290573

Same boat. Best decision ever made and certainly an easy one.

And yet people still baptise their kids, usually using the excuse that they can't 'disappoint the grandparents'.

Can' fathom it.

Signing your kids into a paedophile ring so as to not disappoint the grandparents. Shocking.

rogber · 31-10-2023 9:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121301024#Comment_121301024

I've no interest in spiritual influencers or crap like that. I find all religions equally silly but am in favour of letting people believe what they want. My specific objection to the Catholic church is, above all, the widely documented sexual abuse of children and general abuse and degradation of women.

Donald Trump · 31-10-2023 10:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121307770#Comment_121307770

Well answer the question then in relation to banning the Jewish religion. How about starting with getting rid of their places of worship as a trial run for the larger job of getting rid of the Catholic ones?

You original post did not mention anything about sexual abuse or degradation. Those are merely afterthoughts to hide and deflect from your original sneering that:

Yet year on year most Irish persons born Christian themselves keeps up the same moronic rituals of baptism, communion, confirmation for their kids, and the inevitable Christmas day mass, largely for social conformity. The idiocy and ideological blindness of human beings never ceases to amaze

Overheal · 31-10-2023 10:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121301024#Comment_121301024

No one called on Judaism to be banned. Judaism doesn't have a papacy afaik either. And no such papacy has raped 200 thousand kids in Spain, where it is also not a state established religion. The whataboutery doesn't aptly suit.

Donald Trump · 31-10-2023 10:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121307999#Comment_121307999

Judaism will kill a hell of a lot more kids in the next week than Catholicism. From a population of what - 10 million vs. a billion or more? They will be brown kids of course, but some of us count them as equal.

People appear to think they are smart for sneering at easy targets for doing X/Y/Z but won't criticise another group who have their own equivalents.

Of course, when called out on it they will try to change the goalposts and rant on about some other aspect. That is actually the whataboutery in play here:

"ha ha ha - look at all those stupid Catholics with their sky fairy and stupid sacraments and traditions. The idiocy and blindness of humans never ceases to amaze"

"Well, you can apply the same to other groups such as Jewish people - will you say the same about them"

"<panic-mode> eh, eh, no, yeah, no, but but but , whaddabout some priest did something bad 30 years ago...that was what I meant"

31-10-2023 10:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121304461#Comment_121304461

YES!

This drives me up the wall every time there's a census.

People lob in that they're Catholic because they did the whole baptism, communion, confirmation malarkey and then had their children do the same. Then got married in a church with all those bells and whistles.

In the 2022 census it said 69% (nice) of people in Ireland are Catholic, it's not anywhere near.

69% of people don't go to church regularly (never mind every week) and if you asked 1,000 people to recite a single line from the Bible there's absolutely zero chance that 690 of them could do it.

Donald Trump · 31-10-2023 10:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121308075#Comment_121308075

The reason that individuals fill out their own census returns in Ireland is that it prevents random people from deciding (on the internet or otherwise) what those individuals are allowed or not allowed to categorise themselves as.

You telling someone that they cannot categorise themself as Catholic or Jedi or flying-spagetti-monsterist has less basis than Enoch telling a kid they can't consider themself whatever gender. None of the foregoing is either your choice, or any of your business.

Overheal · 31-10-2023 10:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121308043#Comment_121308043

I -- don't think those are fair remarks or assertions. Without repeating another thread, a leader of a country is citing biblical text for war pretext, yes, sure. The US has done that a time or two or a leader or to like GWB 'god told me' to do the war on terror, holy ****. But christianity didn't do the war on terror, the USA did. Judaism didn't start a retaliation war in Gaza, Israel did. The koran didn't grow arms and legs and behead Israeli kids, Hamas did.

The suggestion that it's "judaism" or "catholocism" etc. here, well, I think that's imprecise and unfair rhetoric and especially at this time, where sensitivity should be stressed, when lives as we agree are on the line, things are much more volatile than norm to engage in routine thought experiments about 'religions are responsible for a lot of deaths etc globally and historically but which is the worst' I think either extreme rhetoric example gives rise to eg. antisemitic attacks on Jews around the world, attacks on catholics and christians, etc. especially at the moment.

Banning a synagogue in Spain would do nothing to stop deaths in the Middle East. Disenfranchising the RCC to operate churches in Spain stops them from sexually abusing minors, in Spain, by the hundreds of thousands.

31-10-2023 10:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121308114#Comment_121308114

Nonsense.

Science is Enoch's enemy.

Fantasy and fables are my enemies.

Donald Trump · 31-10-2023 10:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121308142#Comment_121308142

No need to be obtuse or try to split hairs in order to obfuscate

The only Israeli "basis" for their stealing of land is that their magic book tells them that their God gave it to them.

So it's fine to sneer at decent Irish people keeping up their traditions and beliefs, but god forbid (ironically) anyone criticise a minority-on-the-global-scale religion that - as I said - will be the justification for the killing of more than any other in the next two weeks.

Donald Trump · 31-10-2023 10:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121308161#Comment_121308161

Well, ironically, science and chromosomes are Encoh's pals rather than enemies on that front. I personally think he's a dickhead and it's none of his business and let the child do what (s)he wants, but if you want to be consistent in your approach, you're gonna have to be on Team Enoch.

You want to collectively punish Catholics for the crimes of some of them? I think we are seeing that kind of approach being played out at the minute in the Middle East too.............

Overheal · 31-10-2023 10:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121308163#Comment_121308163

There are orthodox Jews that oppose the stealing of land. If they are orthodox and follow the religion in an orthodox manner, I cannot jump to the conclusion it's the religion or a magic book truly responsible for the annexations, but again a nation controlled by individuals who want to misapply said book for means not genuinely supported by the religion.

I don't think there's anything to be obtuse about here, banning Judaism in Spain, doesn't do anything to positively affect what's happening right now.

You don't need to ban the catholic church anyway, you can just drive its arms to bankruptcy by enforcing them on all counts.

https://www.bostonherald.com/2023/09/29/baltimore-archdiocese-files-for-bankruptcy-before-new-law-on-abuse-lawsuits-takes-effect/

31-10-2023 11:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121308179#Comment_121308179

Gender ≠ sex.

Science cares about sex, not gender.

Come on, I thought you're supposed to be good at this stuff.

Meanwhile...

The average Catholic in Ireland (and before you get your obvious quip in, I know this fella is Scottish)...

https://twitter.com/_JC1971/status/1719341970294735012

Donald Trump · 31-10-2023 11:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121308192#Comment_121308192

Interesting. You won't criticise the Jewsih religion because there are some of them that oppose the stealing of land.

Would you apply the same standards to Catholicism if we managed to find any Catholics that opposed the abuse of children? I mean there is a chance that out of the billion or so in the world, we might be able to find one or two of them?

Donald Trump · 31-10-2023 11:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121308204#Comment_121308204

You've already established your Enoch credentials and you are only going to confuse yourself and tie you up in knots. You are sounding exactly like him. In your head, you probably think that although you say the same words and "logic" that it is different. But it isn't.

People are free to decide how they characterise themselves, and it isn't up to you or your best bud EB to tell them otherwise. He's possibly also similarly not a fan of the Catholic Church. Maybe he is. I'm just guessing. Perhaps you can ask him the next time you see him and clarify it for us

Why don't you post a video of a stupid person from another country and label it as an "average Jew in Ireland"?

Overheal · 31-10-2023 11:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121308205#Comment_121308205

Well, yes, I don't walk into a Catholic neighbor and blame them for the abuses of the Spanish clergy.

I don't walk up to my Jewish neighbors in the US and blame them for what is going on in Bibi's administration.

I don't collectively condemn Catholics nor Jews for things sicko people have done perversely in the name of those religions. I didn't do the same thing either for Islam, for 9/11, or the War on Terror. I'm a 90s kid who has spent his entire life watching people try and collectively punish people who had the same skin tone or creed as someone else who was an extremist nutjob.

It is not my place do deeply and ecumenically criticize any of these religions, I'm no theologist. But what's being discussed in 200k minors sexually abused by the spanish clergy in the spanish branch of the RCC. We wouldn't tolerate Scientology to operate 'dianetic' rape centers.

Donald Trump · 31-10-2023 11:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121308267#Comment_121308267

Well you say that, but at the same time you call for the destruction and dismantling of the Catholic Church. Or at least the hounding of them financially into oblivion.

You wouldn't let someone else tell you they are not against Jewish people while at the same time they call for all Jewish synagogues and schools to be blindly seized or put out of business.

Your Jewish neighbour is possibly (likely?) an Israeli citizen with a right of return which they might exercise to go and settle on some ex-Palestinian-farmer's land. That's far more plausible than your Catholic neighbour is going to avail of some imagined "rape centre"

You should bring your evidence on these currently operating Catholic rape centres to the authorities. It's pretty bad you yourself have been keeping it to yourself and helping them to cover it up.

Overheal · 31-10-2023 11:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121308291#Comment_121308291

Well you say that, but at the same time you call for the destruction and dismantling of the Catholic Church. Or at least the hounding of them financially.

That's rather hyperbolic. If they have 200 thousand counts of sexually abusing minors the spanish arm of the RCC is accountable for 200 thousand counts. If that is tantamount to destroying the church in Spain: no it's not. And certainly the church continues to exist, Spain has no authority over the Vatican.

All Jewish Synagogues would never be seized in any such way because they don't have a papacy that covers up hundreds of thousands of sexual abuses. Synagogues, by and large, operate independently. The equivocation doesn't suit.

I have no idea if my neighbor is an Israeli citizen and that would be an extremely unfair assumption. That's a big reach to go project onto my neighbor they have anything to do with settling on ex Palestinian farmer land.

You should bring your evidence on these currently operating Catholic rape centres to the authorities.

See the OP?

Donald Trump · 31-10-2023 11:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121308317#Comment_121308317

And Jewish synagogues exist in Ireland even though Ireland has no control over Israel. So what is your point in that regard?

As I said, there will be a lot of kids killed over the next week. And, as I said, some of us still count them even though they are brown. You don't want to criticise the ideology at the foundation of that then that is your choice. And there are plenty of posters here who get the horn (for want of a better expression) every time there is a negative story in the paper about the Catholic Church somewhere in the world.

Overheal · 31-10-2023 11:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121308341#Comment_121308341

And Jewish synagogues exist in Ireland even though Ireland has no control over Israel. So what is your point in that regard?

I don't follow. Are we still talking about Spain and sexual abuse? Ireland has no Control over the Vatican either but the RCC is baked into the Constitution.

It's ironic because on the thread where the killing of kids you mention, is being discussed, I've been accused in a few instances of being an antisemite. So it's discombobulating to hear someone accuse me of being some sort of apologist for Israel and Judaism.

All whataboutery here. If the Spanish arm of RCC abused 200k kids they must be held accountable on all counts. No one is going to ban Spanish civilians from believing in Catholocism.

Donald Trump · 31-10-2023 11:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121308374#Comment_121308374

Well there are (according to Google) 82.5 times the number of Catholics in the world as there are Jewish people.

The OP quotes a report that estimates that 200k Spanish kids were abused in Spain since the 1920's. So over 100 years. I am in no way trying to minimise that. My point here is to contrast your position on Catholicism against your position on Judaism. If we divide that by 82.5 we get 2,424. So on a pro-rata basis, Judaism has been responsible for more kids dying in the past week than Catholicism has been estimated to be responsible for abusing in Spain in the last 100 years.

In one case, people hid behind the veil of the ideology to commit crimes. In the other case, the ideology is the justification for committing the crimes. In one case, the crimes are historical. In the other case they are ongoing.

Given all that, the one that you choose to attack, and the one that you refuse to blame, are strange choices.

And before you get your knickers in a twist, I would say that Jewish people are entitled to practice their religion freely. As are Catholics. But if you want to choose one to pick on, well then you should pick on the most destructive one first.

Overheal · 31-10-2023 11:55pm

I'm not understanding anymore. I'm not attacking any religion. Aside from preaching it's own brand of christianity, the RCC is a legal and international entity. There's no Judaism equivalent. Israel is not it, even if far right nationalists there want it to be 'the one, the only, Jewish nation state of Israel TM' and go to the UN with holocaust props and garner sympathies etc. etc. etc. they don't speak for all Judaism and all Judaism does not speak for Israel. I think we are still getting well aside from the topic here.

If the RCC, an organization with its own lawyers and PR firm etc. covered up 200k sex abuses in the past century that doesn't just fall under the freedom of religion. And these are coverups, not sermons to go touch kids, so it doesn't track that "the ideology is the justification." If there was a cohort of synagogues with a similar MO they would face similar accountability. That's not the case, it's a counterfactual. What's happening in the middle east has no such bearing on what's happening in Spain.