Tusla complaint

Whitecarstones

Just wondering

If someone makes a true or false complaint to tusla about another person, is that person allowed access to that complaint in order to cross examine the contents?

Peregrinus

By "complaint", do you mean a report to Tusla of concerns for the safety of a child, or a complaint about the actions of Tusla or of a Tusla officer?

Notmything

You make referral regarding the welfare or safety of children. I suppose you could call it a complaint against their guardian but technically it's not a complaint. But you can make a complaint against Tulsa or an employee, I'm assuming it's the former.

Yes, tusla should inform you if a referral has been made and they may tell you what it was in reference to. Usually when they are following up on it. But they won't usually say where or who made it.

Whitecarstones

Hi lads. Thanks for the replies

Sorry i mean it in the context of a complaint regarding the safe guarding of a child.

In my sceanrio who made the complaint specifically is not the issue. It is the complaint itself. Are you allowed access to the contents of the complaint if you are the one the complaint is made about? Is this a freedom of information sceanrio.

Surely there are procedures in place that an accussed can see the contents to refute them or prove they are not legitimate?

Notmything

You should be told the nature of the referral and be given the opportunity to refute or challenge them.

In my experience this is often done first via a phone call and then maybe an in person conversation where the referral is discussed and you are given the opportunity to give your side of it.

Peregrinus

Important to note that when Tusla investigates reports it is not investigating the guilt of the caregiver, but the safety of the child. So this isn't a criminal proceeding and the adult involved doesn't have the rights of a defendant. (Depending on what emerges from the investigation, obviously, a criminal investigation might begin, and depending on how that goes a criminal proceeding might be begin, and when all this happens the person involved will have the usual rights afforded to a person in that situation.)

Also note that a lot of reports to Tusla are by phone or in person, so technically there is nothing to see. (But of course a person can be told what has been said.)

Having said all that, Tusla's investigation of a report that a child is at risk because of the acts (or failure to act) of a responsible adult will almost always involve talking to the adult, discussing the safety concerns with them, and getting their perspective. So the adult will know what it is they are said to have done, or failed to do, that presents a danger to the child.

Lenar3556

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121345220#Comment_121345220

No - it is not provided for in the freedom of information act.

You could try a data subject access request, but they may decide they have grounds not to share what it is that you wish to receive.

Tusla policy: https://www.tusla.ie/uploads/content/SOP_Access_2.2.pdf

If you were being prosecuted for an alleged offence, that would be a different scenario and the evidence would need to be put before you.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121345220#Comment_121345220

Concerns about the safety of a child are most often made either in person or over the phone to TUSLA or the Gardai so there wouldn’t be anything to examine. Hope it works out for you.

Whitecarstones

Thank you. Very informative. I appreciate it

Whitecarstones

Thats nice of you. Thanks

Whitecarstones

Thank you very much for that.

mondeoman72

Yes you can get the report/complaint.

You request it under the a data release. A woman called Pam Skeritt was invited by us and interviewed me as a family member and afterwards a report arrived in Tusla. When I served a data request, it got lost a couple of times before I went to the data protection comissioner. The report was released to me and all identifying info about who was involved and the reporter were redacted.

contact details for them below. In my case, the investigation was closed after a phone call.

TheSunIsShining

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121349478#Comment_121349478

Did the Barr judgement not require Tusla to provide a copy of the complaint to the accused person? I was pretty sure it did?

And when you google it, an Ombudsman's man report, Taking Stock, comes up and that also seems to imply that there is an obligation on Tusla to provide the complaint in writing to the accused?

TheSunIsShining

@Whitecarstones

Not an expert here on the law but Section 2 of the Executive Summary (i can't post links but google Ombudsman Taking Stock) notes:

2. Right to fair procedures and due process

Findings

in some instances, the subject of an allegation of abuse was not provided with details of the allegations made against them in writing;

in some instances, the subject of an allegation of abuse was not advised they could bring a support person to interview;

adequate notes were not taken during the interview process;

notes taken were not shared with the person subject to an allegation of abuse for verification purposes;

the name of the person who made anonymous allegations was withheld from the person subject to an allegation of abuse which is not in keeping with Tusla’s Policy and Procedures for Responding to Allegations of Abuse and Neglect (Tusla’s September 2014 Policy);

the subject of an allegation of abuse was not given a copy of Tusla’s September 2014 Policy so that they could understand the process which lay ahead.

Recommendations

finalise and publish Tusla’s September 2014 Policy by October 2017;

provide training to all social work staff on the policy;

regularly audit a sample of case files to ensure that the policy is being followed.

Notmything

Other than where a mandated person (and not in all cases) I've never come across someone been told where the initial referral was made from or by whom. When that individual asked not to be named or identified.

TheSunIsShining

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121359396#Comment_121359396

Hmm. Looked there. Check the CASP document on the Tusla website. Not 100% certain when that process is used but it notes this -

Give the PSAA (and their parents if the PSAA is a child) the following:

Full written details of the allegations (including the identity of the PMD), and a copy of all relevant information and documentation gathered by the CASP social worker as part of the substantiation assessment. This will include a copy of written information, including any reports about the allegations made against the PSAA. If there is information in the relevant documents which is not relevant to the assessment and relates to someone other than the PMD or the PSAA, it may be removed on the grounds of data protection. (See the CASP Data Protection Guidance).

Acronym page has:

PMD: Person making a disclosure of abuse

PSAA: Person Subject of Abuse Allegations 

csirl

In answer to the OPs specific questiion. Yes, you can get a copy of the complaint made against you via FOI or GDPR. Tusla have improved in this area and will even advise which will result in the release of the most information. They will redact the childs personal details etc but will give out copies of the original documents. If the complaint is untruthful or false, they will accept clarification. If the complaint is malicious, you have the option of referring it to the Gardai - knowingly making a malicious complaint to Tusla is a criminal offence.

TheSunIsShining

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361871#Comment_121361871

Interested in your thoughts, if this is something you are familiar with, on the extracts from that Ombudsman's report and the results you get when you Google Tusla and Barr verdict - along with the CASP process I referred to?

csirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362088#Comment_121362088

I've a relative whom this happened to. A local "busy body" (BB) took offence to something relative said to her. BB reported relative to Tusla. Said relative was a child minder minding children in her home and was abusing the children. BB then told some local people that she'd made the teport, so word got back to relative.

Relative has never worked as a child minder and has never looked after children in her home. If fact, she does a public facing job where she is out of the house all day and cannot WFH.

Relative obtained copies of the BB's reports under FOI/GDPR and complained to Tusla. Local social workers told relative that the BB does this regularly - has made false reports about many people in the locality - that they regard BB as a "nutter" and disregard her reports.

Relative then reported the above to local Garda station. Criminal investigation followed and a file on the BB was sent to the DPP for false reporting. BB escaped prosecution by claiming to be suffering from mental health issues etc etc. - didnt realise the potential harm being caused.

TheSunIsShining

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362437#Comment_121362437

Jesus, that's dreadful.

I must google it more later, but I am intrigued as to why your relative had to submit FOI/GDPR request. Like unless I am missing something, that stuff I quoted above makes it abundantly clear that Tusla have to supply the detail as part of the process - and that all comes from the Barr verdict in the High Court. So am I missing something obvious here?

csirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362896#Comment_121362896

When Tusla received the report they immediately disregarded it due to the source it came from. Never told the accused person as they had no intention of following up. All those other people the BB made false reports about probably have no idea that they were reported!

TheSunIsShining

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121363833#Comment_121363833

No word from the OP but assume in their case it went beyond being put in the bin. I still reckon that stuff above means they should have been given a copy of it. If only I had done Law!

Whitecarstones

Thanks very much. Invaluable

Whitecarstones

That is awful. Im so sorry to hear

Whitecarstones

Hey. No it did not go forward than a complaint. The information is needed with reference to another legal matter. (Its complicated!)