Storm Debi : Mon 13th Nov 2023

InAtFullBack

A few localised strong gusts from non-official stations:

https://x.com/danholley_/status/1723979991476473953?s=20

dsmythy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361678#Comment_121361678

What gust of wind blew that over though?What's the highest gust in Dublin?

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361688#Comment_121361688

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361696#Comment_121361696

Agreed, it's still orange territory here at least.

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361714#Comment_121361714

I don't know...

But I do know that gusts in Dublin have been strong enough to uproot trees that have stood for decades, and that fully warrants the red warnings that were issued.

Could you image the absolute outrage if there was no red warning and loss of life occurred because commuters were out and about commuting?

cheese sandwich

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361729#Comment_121361729

So any time a tree falls over it should be a red warning? Thats a pretty low bar

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361734#Comment_121361734

Yeah.. best of luck to you, but I won't be engaging.

dsmythy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361729#Comment_121361729

But it's not meeting the red criteria. You'd be issuing far too many if you feel this was red for Ringsend or Dublin generally.

redsteveireland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361558#Comment_121361558

I still dispute the accuracy of that station given its location close to the 2 motorways and wooded areas, also half of the town is built on higher land.

muddypaws

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361586#Comment_121361586

Nobody said it was going to be bad in Donegal. The storm tracked across the country towards the North East not the North West. I'm in coastal Sligo and knew we weren't going to be hit badly. A bit of rain and normal wind for November. I'm thankful that this time we were out of it and don't see it as a non event at all.

cdeb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361644#Comment_121361644

Double decker buses have a very low centre of gravity as far as I'm aware. There was a Top Gear episode where they were racing different types of buses around a race track and one of the drivers (a pro touring car driver) was trying to flip one for the camera. It was surprisingly hard - even when it went on two wheels at a 30 degree angle or so, it would right itself.

Most of the bus above the chassis is empty space really. Passengers avoiding the top deck then would help too.

yagan

Lovely morning in cork.very jarring considering schools are late opening this morning but were kept open when they shouldn't have been when Middleton flooded.

Considering weather can be regional there needs to be regional independence to make closure warnings rather than waiting for Dublin to be affected.

adocholiday

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361678#Comment_121361678

A red warning was not justified by its definition, which is

• Widespread mean speeds in excess of 80km/h
• Widespread gusts in excess of 130km/h

Neither of those conditions were met, in fact not even orange level conditions were met in Dublin, or anywhere else for that matter other than Knock airport according to official stations.

Most of the models were showing nothing more than orange last night at around 10pm and the warnings could easily have been downgraded but Met Eireann always seem reluctant to do that once they've issued a warning.

I'm not generally one to criticise Met Eireann, systems like this one are a nightmare for forecasters and they can only go by the info they have but the info told them that red wasn't justified and they persisted anyway. Yes some trees came down and yes there are power outages and localised damages, but still it was nowhere near close to a red warning.

And the unofficial station data can't be used to verify wind speeds because it isn't possible to verify their accuracy or siting so the readings could be way off. Just being used to hype this event which Met Eireann got completely wrong.

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361712#Comment_121361712

Why are they still quoting mph?

GHendrix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361773#Comment_121361773

Exactly. We need to remove emotion from this. A tree falling down or power outages don’t mean that a red warning is valid.

There is criteria in place for these warnings.

There are many occasions now where Red warnings are issued but the criteria is not met. Sometimes not even close.

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361773#Comment_121361773

I genuinely think there is political interference with Met Eireann. At present Dublin is far worse than Storm Ophelia was in 2017 and that closed the country for two days. There is probably a general sense that these storms are becoming so frequent that not even a category 5 hurricane is going to be in the red zone once it's 9AM on a school morning (I state in jest, of course). At 10AM a load of counties magically go from red to yellow (bypassing orange) over one second. In the end Met Eireann will end up discrediting themselves and no one will take their warnings seriously.

HeidiHeidi

Some fairly wild gusts ripping through Dublin 4 the last while - a pair of solid electric gates are struggling to stay closed at times.

sryanbruen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361801#Comment_121361801

Dan Holley is based in East Anglia. That's why.

HeidiHeidi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361808#Comment_121361808

You do understand that these are forecasts?

You're using the benefit of hindsight to act the expert.

Let's see your 100% accurate forecast next time a storm is on the way.

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361819#Comment_121361819

You might remember that Leo Varadkar took full charge of Storm Ophelia and placed himself at the centre of events when Storm Ophelia occurred. If that isn't political interference then I don't know what is.

Just arrived back from France recently where Storm Ciaran was raging. President Macron was interviewed on French TV about the storm. Unfortunately a small number of people died.

I don't know why political interference should surprise you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361811#Comment_121361811

Tinfoil top hat?

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361773#Comment_121361773

I think the problem is that people just ignore yellow and orange “warnings”. We’ve a fair few now and no one pays attention to them.

The current yellow criteria should be scrapped. What we have now should be orange, excluding what the west and north west get. Most of us on the east coast can get around this morning. Orange warning would suit, take precautions.

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361847#Comment_121361847

Well I do love the fact that Met Eireann have declared Louth and Monaghan a yellow zone with bordering county Armagh (in an entirely different jurisdiction) an orange zone. That's farcical.

cheese sandwich

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361808#Comment_121361808

As can be seen from this thread, some people are extremely risk averse

cdeb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361860#Comment_121361860

You think people are ignoring the warnings, but you then try argue that's the problem of the warnings rather than the people?

That doesn't really make sense in fairness.

aidanodr

Complaints about Met Eireann warning colours etc .. YES. there is a thread for that, please go there instead of here?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2056857470/all-things-met-eireann-related-go-in-here-mod-note-1#latest

ednwireland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361440#Comment_121361440

yeh pretty breezy at 8am. backed right off now.

giveitholly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361847#Comment_121361847

Next we will be hearing Bill Gates is involved

RobertKK

We had people lose their lives in previous storms and even if Red warning was not justified according to the parameters - I don't know if they were met or not, if the actions of having a red warning saved just 1 life then it was worth it - because red also covers a risk to life.

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361759#Comment_121361759

Old but still relevant. From 3:33 on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLUqAUu9y2Y

odyssey06

I see first Dublin Bus of the day passing by (H1).

appledrop

The point I was making about the airport was that if we really had winds that were justified for ' red weather' warning then no planes would be taking off or landing.

That wasn't the case, the odd flight delayed but most ciykd take off and land no problem.

Our creche also closed till 12, mainly due to staff not been able to get in because no public transport.

Creche staff often not paid well so a lot rely on public transport.

No justification whatsoever for public transport not operating until 10am this morning. Fair enough assess locally if trees down but most places no issues.

I have just managed a long commute on M50 and back roads and didn't even come across any branches down never mind trees.

On plus my commute was fastest ever, very little traffic.

I suppose my 7 year old summed it up best this morning when we told him he would be late going to school this morning due to the storm.

He looked out the window and said but 'Mammy it's not even stormy out'

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361915#Comment_121361915

Reverse seems to be happening. The entire country is declared yellow and if you go onto the Met Eireann website the definition of yellow is "Not unusual weather".

If people want to get rid of warnings then I'd be in favour of that. Rather that than false warnings.

RobertKK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361915#Comment_121361915

The winds were strong in certain areas and the ground is very wet so the threshold for danger is higher than normal.

There are reports of winds of close to 150km/hr whether they verify I don't know, but some areas did have a bad storm, and this storm was not the easiest for the meteorologists to predict due to the very rapid development of the storm. It was always best to be safe than sorry with the nature of this development.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361925#Comment_121361925

I will never not be amazed how people seem to believe weather pronouncements, predictions and casting should be limited to their own front garden.

The innate growth of selfishness in today's society. Why ? Who knows.

FastFullBack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361770#Comment_121361770

Nobody waited for Dublin to be affected. The school delays were issued to all counties under orange/red, not just Dublin. That guidance was issued before Dublin went red.

I'm in south Cork coast also and yes looking outside since 7AM, there was no need to delay the schools but I understand how these warnings work and how Cork is a huge county so they certainly ain't perfect but they are better than nothing.

antodeco

So, guess time to leave the thread so as the discussion will be about whether it was a storm or not.

Thanks for the updates everyone. I enjoy a good weather system and the excitement of seeing what will happen (hoping nothing bad obviously!)

Deeec

Its impossible for ME to pinpoint exactly where the strongest wind will be - all they can do is give an approximate area. As seen here by people giving different opinions on the weather who live in the same county. Weather within a few miles can be very different.

In the past red warnings were unjustified for my area but I think this red warning was spot on - Storm Ophelia here was a literally a slightly windy day. Wind done a lot of damage around here with this storm. I would prefer to get the warnings than not get them.

You have personal choice whether you want to heed the warning or not.

Liffey4A

https://www.met.ie/met-eireann-warning-system-explained

IMPACT CONSIDERATIONS: These numerical criteria are strong guidelines but impacts from wind/rain/snow etc., vary depending on location, recent weather conditions, the state of ground, the time of year as well as the duration of the event. In any individual weather event, not every location in the warning area may experience the same degree of weather or impacts. When severe weather is expected, weather and impacts at lower levels are also likely to be experienced.

Supercell

27 pages on this topic of which a good 25 are about the bloody warning colours!

Topped out here at 77kmph which is high but not record breaking, a decent autumnal storm. Over 100K people without power across the country , by any reckoning thats a pretty strong weather event.

rob316

Not a stir in Cork this morning, lovely morning.

airy fairy

I think some people here are of the thinking that bus/luas drivers, teachers, crèche workers etc should either live next door to their workplace or should teleport themselves to work in the event of an orange or red warning to serve the people.

Warnings don't cover particular cities or towns, maybe some need to understand that the counties are vast. High altitudes in rural settings are covered under one warning along with urban low lying areas.

PokeHerKing

I think we have to accept that in the modern era there's too many eyes on things.

If met didn't issue red and a random tree crushed a child walking to school its worldwide news in 30 seconds flat.

Theyre just not going to take that risk. The fallout fpr them is too great.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361925#Comment_121361925

That's your experience. Elsewhere 3 people have had to be rescued from there cars.

Ireland is an incredibly small land mass in the context of this storm. No storm composition is fixed and entirely predictable. There are tonnes of variables. The people who have studied the science know make predictions and forecasts. That's all they are and, they come with the safety of people in mind.

Forcasters don't set out to ruin people's days. We adapted so well during COVID times to being locked down months on end with no notice. You would think people are resilient enough to not get in an absolute panic over the occasional storm disruption. I think unscrupulous employers probably have a lot to do with that.

DOCARCH

Strongest wind of this 'event' now in Greystones. Gusting 52 knots/96 kmh at the moment.

Mr Disco

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361978#Comment_121361978

There is no personal choice if you are relying on public transport

Apothic_Red

You can sense some posters are frustrated that Met E called Red, especially since it transpired to be barely an Orange event but that's the benefit of hindsight.

There's a post Covid issue too that many people have lost faith in their respective bodies to do right by the masses. Try and organise a Lockdown now & I'd doubt you'd get the 95% compliance they got the first time round. So now if an event is flagged as serious & we're told to stay indoors that's a red rag to some.

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362018#Comment_121362018

Still strong gusts around. Definitely feels worse since 9am till present compared to the early morning.

nacho libre

I suppose for places that are used to strong winds this storm was nothing that unusual, but for places that aren't ,given the water logged ground and the leaf situation, that's why quite a few trees are down. A storm back in 1990 was the strongest storm I ever experienced, this wasn't as strong as that, but for my area, at least ,Debi was up there in terms of damage with the storm back in 1997. So I suppose we dodged a bullet that the UKMO HD overegged it in terms of maximum gusts. Even so I am in the camp that if the red warning saved one life it was worth it.

snowstreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361753#Comment_121361753

I heard met eireann on the radio a while ago saying that a new wind gust record was set for Athenry at 115kmph.

I cant believe its record was so low, I suspect all the trees near it must shelter it. maybe that shelter is a reason why it regularly gets record high temps in summer.

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362039#Comment_121362039

For sure.

There is an interesting parallel between the lack of seriousness which Covid ended up being taken by national institutions & politicians (where it is now effectively ignored) and the reducing seriousness with which storms are now being taken. From two days of closure on Storm Ophelia to "Sure it'll be grand by 10AM" is quite some change in the space of 6 years.