Why no late cafes in Dublin or Ireland in general?

FrankN1

In Europe this is the norm with cafes open until late. Of course, usually people don't drink coffee so late here but strange that most European cities have it while our cafes close at 5 or 6pm. Even shops here too close early compared to other European cities. Any reason for this?

Hangdogroad

Webworkhouse in Cork.

Strumms

Probably because of the prevalence of pubs have that market sown up…

where I live I can drive to about 7 or 8 pubs in 5 minutes.

A culture thing too, also cafes can be quite soulless places, all identikit with tacky decor and cheap shaky furniture, certainly the chains anyway. I’ve never willingly said in my life.. let’s go to Starbucks, Costa, Nero etc… don’t get it, just me personally but anyway.

rossie1977

Same reason very little outside dining in Ireland.

Irish culture draws from US and UK not really from continental Europe.

ottolwinner

There’s one in Galway or used to be last time I checked Javas. Used to be open until 2am or so. Nice alternative to chippers for some after a few drinks or as a mellower atmosphere to a pub.

dickdasr1234

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121408541#Comment_121408541

Driving to the pub? Deary me.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058323898/why-no-late-cafes-in-dublin-or-ireland-in-general

Pub culture, basically. If we go out of an evening, we go to pubs, not cafes. There's no legal or regulatory restriction to prevent cafes opening at night and a few do, but most who put a toe in the water give it up because it's not profitable, because not enough people come.

Back in the day — I'm showing my age now — Bewleys in George's St used to open at night. In my penniless student days I used to go there because I didn't have enough money to go to the pub. There was a fair mix of people in there, but it was mostly quiet except for an hour around 10 pm when groups of theatre-goers would come in after a show.

ggu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121415562#Comment_121415562

? They never said they were actually entering the pub or consuming alcohol, they only mentioned the number of pubs in driving distance….

Thelonious Monk

Is it the norm in Europe? I just spent some time in the North of Spain and I didn't notice any late night cafes, although they obviously sell coffee in all the pintxho bars.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121415587#Comment_121415587

I went to Bewleys many times late evening after being in the pub, stopped any hangover next day!

El_Duderino 09

The government tried to legislate for cafe bars in the 2000s. The pub industry lobbied and campaigned against it. They convinced the country it would be a terrible idea so the government dropped it. That's why we don't have cafe bars or late night cafes.

Amazing to think they managed to turn people to oppose even allowing cafe bars. Fine if you wouldn't be interested in them, but they actually managed to make people oppose the idea. The power of lobbying can be incredibly strong.

Lofidelity

Its hard to get anything thats not fast food at night. In the US they have a history of roadside diners that are open late. The places that appear in countless movies with waiter service, sofa booths and a couple of baddies in the corner with guns drawn under the table.

FrankN1

Strange that there's not even one in Dublin city. Not expecting it in local commuter towns really but odd that no one has tried it.

Wonder why it's feasible in Europe for some many. Maybe it's just the culture thing but even at that, I'd imagine there is demand for one or 2 places to do it.

nachouser

Tea Garden on the quays opens until 11pm. There used to be a place on Stephen Street Lower that opened til 10 or later. I think Covid killed it off. But, yeah, there's no real market for meeting up for a ham & cheese toastie and a cup of tea at 8pm on a Tuesday in February.

FrankN1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121416970#Comment_121416970

Just wondering why there is such demand in Europe. Of course the weather plays a part but they have a huge demand for it.

humberklog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121416982#Comment_121416982

Where in Europe are you talking about?

Metro Cafe and Busy Feet on South William are open until 10 and 11.

Stephen's Street had a late night one and once apon a time Bewleys on Grafton opened 24 hours.

I reckon it'd be tough going to sell enough coffee at night to cover costs as people sit over one rather than having a few.

igCorcaigh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121405633#Comment_121405633

Tribes, back in the day (early/mid 1990's) was unique for Cork at the time... open till late night, like 3pm or so? People used to come in after the nightclubs... got a bit edgy, but you had to order food at that time, not just a coffee.

Was nice during the day, and this was when the coffee shop culture hadn't yet arrived in Cork City.

Does Cafe Spresso on McCurtain Street stay open till 10pm, as it says on their Google Maps page?

BlueSkyDreams

Starbucks on Stephens Green was 24 hours.

There are a few cafes open until about 11pm, as others have said.

You can also buy coffee and tea in most pubs & bars anyway.

extra-ordinary_

The Manhattan on Sth Richmond St!

How late are people talking?...Town is full of restaurants and there's a few coffee type places open 'til 9 or 10 around Stephen St.

1874

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121416982#Comment_121416982

I always thought Bewleys in Westmorland St (was it always called that?) I think it had a different name/ownership of the Westmorland St location. It had a certain amount of character, the thing is, Pubs imo never entertained the idea of patrons sitting around and only having one serving of their wares. Tea and cake in one serving/sitting isn't as profitable (unless it's alongside the likes of an M&S where customers are buying other items). Pubs want/need customers spending money downing pints, getting pisshed is conducive to not being that concerned about spending money, tea and scones not so much.

I'm hazarding a guess it's just not as profitable, take insurance and rental costs into account and thats how the likes of Bewleys closed down. It could make a welcome and beneficial change for the city centre if the city centre wasnt on its last legs with reluctant or non existant policing, roaming $cum and argumentative addicts on the loose. in my opinion it starts with Gardai being effective (and having the support of the Govt/State/judiciary) to clean up the mess that the city centre is, by legitimately and legally removing addicts and anyone up to antisocial behaviour/ie the State being known to deal with anti social behaviour and the Council (DCC) in concert, cleaning the place up, so that probably means the HSE and Social welfare acting in on the act, in a joined up fashion with everyone else too by having drying out/rehab services (which no one wants near them), and so that means accommodation for Drug/crimefree free homeless and secure accommodation for the more criminally minded sorts. Id say where cafes and family socialising exist and work, in those countries, it works because its expected/wanted to work, and any nonsense is dealt with and the judiciary arent milking the state letting scum off the hook.

igCorcaigh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121417713#Comment_121417713

I think a lot of those points are valid in a wider context, but I think in this country in mainly comes down to financial factors, and to a lesser degree, culture.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121417684#Comment_121417684

On the continent, 10pm is not late, it's the start of the evening. Late in the context of the OP is midnight or up to 2-3am.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121416970#Comment_121416970

Yes there is! Set it up and I'll be there.

barneygumble99

Wish they would open a bit later than they normally do. Also wish they would open earlier. In Kilkenny, only two coffee shops open before 8am , one of them sells lukewarm coffee despite always asking for it to be extra hot so I wouldn’t even consider it.

The other place only opens Wednesday to Sunday but the coffee is fantastic there, unfortunately they close at 3pm every day. Really is an opportunity for an early opener and a late closer in Kilkenny.

So options for early or late coffee in Kilkenny really only down to petrol stations on Mondays and Tuesday mornings and every evening. Abysmal

rolling boh

Would simply come down to costs proberly a lot of cafes make more on their take outs than people taking up a seat and table over a coffee and maybe a bun. Couldn't see them paying their way in the middle of town with all the overheads involved .

gussieg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121417684#Comment_121417684

Is the Manhattan still there?

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121418919#Comment_121418919

That was the place up by the dsb college and across the road from the green centre?

Can't imagine it's still open.

LimerickGray

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121415587#Comment_121415587

Didn’t they put on shows in there too- or was that just a sign of how drunk I really was then.

LimerickGray

Limerick used to have Java’s too but that’s been lost to progress long ago. As much as I remember, it was there from the early 1990s. Limerick is the same other Irish towns and deserted at evenings except for homeless folk and beggars. Sadly.

Strumms

Sufi’s Cafe on Chatham St used to open till 11pm, I was about to recommend it but I’m seeing that’s closed now… always had a nice ambiance and excellent service, food and drinks…pity.

Hangdogroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121417627#Comment_121417627

Used to frequent Sir Henrys nightclub just around the corner in the late 90s and a night out there was never complete without queuing for Tribes afterwards.

The Gingerbread House on Paul St was also 24 hours, at least it was for a few years.

Dont know about Cafe Spresso, I harldy ever drink coffee these days.

lisasimpson

A tribes on Cork was a great spot

JVince

1 - it is not the norm in Europe. (Paris probably the only city). I never understand when that statement is made.

2 - there's no market for it. If there was, they'd be open.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121416982#Comment_121416982

Where in Europe ?

I think you are confusing what they call a bar with a cafe.

apache

You's will never sleep at night if you want to drink coffee that late. I wouldn't have thought there's a market for it.

bodhrandude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121415533#Comment_121415533

There was also another late cafe on Dominic St, Galway over a decade ago called Banana Phoblacht which always used to have a great vibe and I remember another that used to be in Woodquay called O'Shakespeare's I think that used to have late music and trad sessions in it.

igCorcaigh

I think there would definitely be a market for a late night venue that is alcohol free, or mainly so.

Coffee, 0% beers, food, maybe some down tempo live music or stage performance.

humberklog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121420475#Comment_121420475

Well there was one in Dublin that closed recently. The Virgin Mary.

It was around for about 4 years. It's going on-line where they'll now organise pop-up events.

Speedsie

The Coffee Inn on South Anne St and Bewley's Grafton St or George's St were my go to late night frothy coffee spot when a student in the early 90s.

@1874 the Bewley's on Westmorland St opened in the late 1800s, not sure what was there before, the Grafton St branch was a late comer in the 1920s.

Gig's place on Richmond St and the Manhattan on Harcourt Rd for even later shenannigans! Both long gone now, and the Manhattan site is looking particularly grim.

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121420475#Comment_121420475

There’s a market to an extent but would people spend the money?

Perhaps for the type of venue you’re mentioning it could be something like pay an entry fee being necessary - people ain’t gonna be buying more than 1 coffee at a stage performance. While the idea is nice it’s hard to see a stream of money being spent.

GormlessCyberNazi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058323898/why-no-late-cafes-in-dublin-or-ireland-in-general

Weird and slightly suggestive Op insofar as most late night cafes on the continent are selling booze. no one goes for buns and coffee at 3am unless they are Vampires on a break. European boozers are no different. So your op is slightly skewed?

There were always spots around Dublin which tolerated a late drink a few years back. I think the creation of Harcourt street did much to offer such places serious competition. Between the Hot dog days of Leeson Street ( clubs open all the way up both streets, possibly over 15 during the mid 80's.

It was a different scene, regulation was not as strictly monitored by The Gards for the most of the Leeson Street Halcyon. No fluke that they run most of the clubs on Harcourt street now, according to the dogs on the street btw, whose population is increasing by the night.

igCorcaigh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121421089#Comment_121421089

It would have to draw a night crowd I suppose. Similar to how cafes operate in the day, which could be feasible in the right area? Especially when there are little or no other options. Not everyone likes the pub buzz.

rolling boh

Sure didn't the alcohol free bar open and then closed quick enough in Dublin .As has been said it's a nice idea but just not viable here at least .

Turquoise Hexagon Sun

Yeah, it's a pity we don't. So much Irish culture is about drinking pints. Don't get me wrong, I love pints but I'd also love a nice cosy nighttime cafe I can got to and enjoy a tea and relax after a film. Or just get out midweek and not be tempted to have a drink or have a hangover.

It's just another thing we're a bit backward on - like building higher than 5 stories, standing on one side of the escalator to let people in a rush pass etc :P

JVince

The issue with a "speciality" bar/cafe/restaurant is that you need it to attract most members of a group.

Hence very few vegetarian restaurants, no non-alcoholic bars and almost no late night cafes.

MarkY91

You can go Tova pub without having alcohol you know...

Turquoise Hexagon Sun

Yeah, but it's nice to be able to go to a space indoors, enjoy a drink and a chat and not be around inebriated people. Late cafes should be compared with late places to eat food, not pubs. Again, this is the Irish mentality stuck on drinking/pubs.

If there was an established place, I'm sure it could do business during the day - they could sell some food. There are plenty of people in the country that would frequent a cafe later.

The problem with alcohol-free pubs is that it's trying to be something it's not. The part of the charm that has us all going back to a pub is...wait for it shocker: Alcohol! Take that out the equation and what do you have?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121422339#Comment_121422339

No, there's just less vegetarians. If you walk around any Irish city its choc full of coffee places There are thousands upon thousands of coffee/tea and snack eaters. In Dublin, there are about 4 Starbucks in about a 600m radius of each other. It's not a niche thing. It's just opening hours. If some opened until 22:00, then you'd have something.

I think some people might be getting confused with "late cafes" - like most of them close around 18:00 - that's so early. Meeting a friend in the city centre and it's either a restaurant or pub. Well, I don't want food and I don't want to got to the pub just once in a week. Nope, nothing.

We're not talking about building more cafes. There's enough cafes just none of them open late.

iniscealtra

I go out 6-8 generally, Have a tea or a 0% beer in the restaurant or pub. Rarely go out late anymore. When i do I just choose the venue well. A pub with no telly generally or a pub with a session or live music. You can still go out and not be around people who are hammered if thats what you want.

ghostfacekilla

There's definitely a few factors in play, and then the unknown. I used to enjoy the place Accents, and it always seemed jammers but maybe that was a weekend thing in the later hours of operating, and it was a covid casualty I believe. There was also the 24hr Starbucks on the green, which also was very busy at night. The only real option, albeit a terrible one is gay spar, on Dame St and it's where I frequent on the rare trips back to Ireland in the later hours. Lots of chaotic people watching, drunk patrons, and mediocre offerings regarding food and drink. It's not peaceful, or comfortable. What are the challenges to a prospective night time Dublin based cafe owner? From my experience, I don't think it would be a customer base, as Accents and the 24hr Starbucks seemed fine, in that regard. I imagine it's the same challenges as the daytime cafe owner. Rents, and insurance. I believe that Dublin has enough shift workers, ethic population where late cafes are the norm, delivery drivers, non-drinkers etc to make a place viable. Perhaps it needs to be off the beaten track a little, where there is lower rent. I remember the Starbucks had security, which is more salaries and perhaps there would be a challenge in finding long term staff. It would be good to hear from the former staff or owners of Accents to find out what their experience of the challenges were, and what they would suggest to someone setting up a new option in the late night cafe world to do differently.

whisky_galore

Can't get staff for a "regular" cafe and getting harder for a non chain, non mass market cafe to remain viable, let alone a speciality one. Who really wants to wait on customers all night for a pittance?

Flaneur OBrien

I used to work in Cafe Mocha in Dublin, open til 4am, maybe that was just the weekends though. Great craic, and busy enough. I think the demographics have changed though. Monday used to be a great night to go out with Strictly Handbag in RiRa, and it was only Tues/Wed that would be quiet. I think we’d close at midnight those days.

The sandwiches there were gorgeous, and a great option away from abrakebabra!