Why no late cafes in Dublin or Ireland in general?

bodhrandude

Wine bars can have that kind of café atmosphere, the legendary Nimmo's at the Spanish Arch was a great place in the 90s, nice coffee, the wine a bit dodgy but a change from a pub if you like. I used to do paid trad sessions at the place and often another session would start in the far corner maybe Sharon Shannon and Donal Lunny having a tune. 😀

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121419693#Comment_121419693

I think it's the kind of cafe/bar that they have on the continent. Sells coffee and lower strength alcoholic beverages.

Peregrinus

This being Ireland, I suspect that late-night cafe-bars would do a lively trade in pots of tea.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427085#Comment_121427085

There's nothing lower strength about those. Pretty much all sell spirits

Beechwoodspark

I spent some time working in Central Europe - Austria, Germany, Czech.

The locals sit for hours in brightly lit coffee shops, often historical buildings, with coffee and slices of cake.

Once the novelty wore off I found the coffee shops boring dry places but civilised.

There is no “pub culture” to any great extent there.

Paddy and Bridie Irishman doesn’t “do” cafes - certainly not in the evening - prefers pints in a pub.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121420475#Comment_121420475

Brewdog tried in London and it couldn't even work there.

My friend works for a non alcoholic brewery in London and even they wouldn't risk tanking the pub by being non alc only.

Problem is these days it's perfectly acceptable to drink something non alcoholic late on in a pub so you are really limiting yourself because no non drinker is gonna want to upset the group by going somewhere that only suits them to the detriment of the rest. Regional gay bars had a very similar problem once it became okay to shift your boyfriend in a regular pub.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427136#Comment_121427136

Could you get a beer in these cafes if you wanted one ? Pretty certain you could.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121422737#Comment_121422737

Are you joking. Independent cafes are absolutely booming in Ireland.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427164#Comment_121427164

You'd get beer, wine, aperitifs, whiskey in most of them

They don't have pub culture as they don't restrict drink sales to pubs

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427170#Comment_121427170

Very few places in Europe have what we call "the pub culture". Those places are not pubs but they are also not what we would call a cafe which is why people like the OP and yourself mistakingly believe Europe is "full of" late night cafes. Calling them a cafe is like calling a tapas bar a restaurant.

daheff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121408590#Comment_121408590

fairly sure weather plays a big part in that here. we don't get consistent enough good, dry warm weather in summer months to make it worthwhile for cafes/restuarants to invest in this.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427201#Comment_121427201

I've said nothing of the sort.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427164#Comment_121427164

Booming and busting in quick succession. People getting it into their heads that selling coffee and cakes is a sure fire money spinner only to find out in months or single digit years it isn't.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427260#Comment_121427260

Which ones are "busting" ?

Certainly no sign of any busting in Limerick and I wouldn't know every cafe in Dublin or Cork but the ones I know are all still there.

Every time a coffee shop opens someone comes out with this "too many already" stuff but no evidence to support it.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427306#Comment_121427306

They open and close quite rapidly in Bray, which has to have reached saturation point at this moment in time.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427306#Comment_121427306

Inflation and costs are hammering small businesses, maybe you'd want to open your eyes a bit more. Not a week goes by that small shops and cafes don't go to the wall.

Remember the coffee out of a horsebox fad? Not so many of those around anymore. People are counting pennies now and the superfluous smashed-this and artisan-that places will be the first to go.

SharkMX

In Europe you can get wne in a cafe. Most of the ones you wuld hang around in in the evening are nice and comfy too.

Cafes in Ireland for the most part have uncomfortable rickety old chairs. No reason for people to want to hang out in one. So they close in the evening because they dont have the footfall to stay open.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427753#Comment_121427753

There were a few horsebox coffee places in Limerick. Then they made enough money to move into full shops.

My eyes are well open. 3 Limerick city centre coffee shops closed since Covid (2 chain 1 independent) and all were immediately filled again. In that time at least 6 more have opened. A number of independent coffee shops in the city have since opened 2nd or 3rd branches. Don't see many closed up ones around the other cities either.

No evidence to suggest city centre coffee shops are struggling in Ireland. I can't speak for towns and villages other than the few I visit but they all have way more coffee shops than before an dbo boarded up shops that used to be coffee shops.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427842#Comment_121427842

Also we have plenty of comfy pubs that sell wine so the market isn't there.

Ide love to see some photos of what people are calling these "late night European cafes"

rdhma

It's long gone now, but this is what late night cafe calls to mind: A Loving Tribute to Javas Cafe

Redeveloped and there's a Starbucks sitting there now.

bucketybuck

People don't want food, they don't want to drink, they just want a nice quiet, warm place where they can hang out and have a chat.

In business terms, what they are saying is that they want a nice quiet, warm place to hang out but they don't want to spend any money for it.

Thread title is the easiest answered question in history. There are very few late night cafes because they don't make any money.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428334#Comment_121428334

One of the main reasons Java's mentioned above was so popular is that people knew they could sit in there all night for the price of a cup of coffee.

The other big difference between then and now is plenty of pubs offer what Java's offered.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428374#Comment_121428374

True.

All pubs and bars sell tea and coffee.

Also, what overheads does a bar have that a cafe does not? assuming no late license in the bar.

The evening takings in a city centre bar are far higher than a late night cafe, so I am not sure how a late cafe would be viable with our crazy rents.

Think of the total number of customers in a bar and the average spend per head vs a late night cafe.

A bar in Dublin will have way more people who spend way more money per head vs a cafe customer base.

I would love to see more cafes thrive at night, but I dont see how they can make it work, when a lot of bars cant even do it.

rdhma

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428374#Comment_121428374

Well I had to have a look and there is this place I didn't know of, which sets out to be a European style late cafe, according to the owner.

MELODY - Food, Vino & Vinyl

I'll give it a try some time. Not expecting to sit in there all night over one cup of coffee though.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428964#Comment_121428964

It's a nice spot. Tapas bar is the best way to describe it and the venue is excellent looking.

Rift also open later in the summer and Treaty City have really good coffee now and have full pub opening hours.

cj maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121419693#Comment_121419693

There was a late night/ early morning coffee place in Preston in the ‘90’s . People that were there weren’t going to be sleeping anyway , being all wide eyed chewing the face of themselves if you get me .

Starbucks Toilet Code 2846

As someone who works from home, and occasionally needs to meet colleagues after work, I have had this problem for months now.

NutButter Grand Canal Dock opens until 21.30, but other than that, I know of no other options except maybe a hotel bar -- and even then, you feel a bit of an imposter.

The reasons aren't economic or anything like that -- your average Dealz closes later than a café, and the café should have better margins. People don't seem to want a late coffee in this economy.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121429952#Comment_121429952

Music Cafe is an amazing spot for coffee. Opens till 8/9.

Mind the Step is own till 11 most nights.

That's just 2 l know from the odd trip to Dublin.