Ulster Bank/First Active Offset mortgages, here's the answer to previous thread!

phormium

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2023/1127/1418724-ulster-bank-mortgages-to-lose-offset-facility-next-year/

shanoh

Has anyone got a letter yet? I suggest we dump some data anonymously on here when we do, so we get a sense of how fair their calculations/offers are. I'm sure people will challenge it and I expect they will have to delay their plans a bit longer than what they said in the article.

phormium

Letters not gone out yet, yes I'd imagine there will be people who challenge it but it's hard to argue with it when they are allowing a 'pay and redraw' facility which is practically the same thing just without the functionality of a current account. How many people are still even using the current account for day to day transactions? I have opened a new current account elsewhere ages ago (but still keep the facility ac obviously for offsetting) and you can't even put in UB bank details for direct debits with many companies, I was trying to set up some recently and neither company would accept.

PTSB used to have something similar in a mortgage years ago so might be easy enough for them to take them over.

My mortgage is very small at this stage and I could have cleared it but decided maybe I'll just hold on to see what happens 😁 UB owe me anyway!

I still have a tracker mortgage with the Ulsterbank, I'm presuming an off set mortgage is a different thing?

phormium

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121426753#Comment_121426753

Yes, an offset mortgage is also a tracker mortgage but not every tracker mortgage is an offset.

Cody OHare

Got an Offer equivalent to 23% of my outstanding balance. But to be clear I had routinely 30 times my monthly mortgage payment in the Offset account. So I suspect i may be on the higher side.

"To calculate your goodwill payment, we have considered how you used your Offest Arrangement in the past and what you may have saved in the future mortgage interest ................. We acknowledge that future offestting balance could increase and ............. To take account of this, we have doubled the payment to you...."

McSween

I got the letter. They have said they will offer after 10 January 2024 based on what i have in the offset account This needs to be run by a tax person i imagine

they are closing the offset account but i believe the option to put money against the outstanding balance. Eg reduce your mortgage total, is an option. The amount above is lovely and all but how can they be allowed change terms and conditions when they havent a clue what theyre talking about when you call then

fliball123

McSween awaiting a letter any chance you can give a bit more detail even PM me

daheff

and what happens if the mortgage holder refuses to allow the bank cancel the mortgage? surely there is a contract in place that they must honour (or at least sell to another bank)?

kenif

Reading around the edges of the various newspaper articles it seems this has all been done with the central banks knowledge maybe even input. I'd like to hear if they have anything to say on it.

Advance Apologies for potentially off topic post, but does anyone have any guesses what the UB are going to do with the remaining tracker mortgages? Thanks

McSween

I havent fully read it yet. The amount if highlighted on the first page. It is invdivual to the account hikder depending on what was in the offset account in the last two years

kenif

What term have you left McSween, if I may ask. Looking at the working examples they gave in their press release, it seems they are applying about a 4% interest for the calculations.

McSween

The life of the mortgage was 2005-2045. They said on statements it was due to end on 2043 but it would have finished way before that as we only really found out what it all meant at early 2021, then Started putting money into offset

brenlixnaw

ive received my letter today and it says they offer me 8,763 euro to be paid on 10 th January ,i haven't long left on the tracker so must say im happy to be able to get that but nervous of what they'll have up their sleeve , so hoping to see some good ideas on this forum

Dfair3108

We have been offered the basic €5k, with approx. 20yrs remaining on our mortgage. I called and was told any future inheritance / bonus etc. needs to be deposited in the account prior to the closure date of the 23/05/2024 in order for these monies to be taken into account.

Anyone rejecting/disputing the offer?

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121429291#Comment_121429291

I reckon there will be a fair few disputing it

kerryjack

Happy with it got the minimum amount house needs redcorating but ******* that I am booking a holiday.

dave19692534

I’m not happy with this situation as to what way they calculated it . Around 13 years left and only offered €5600

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121429968#Comment_121429968

Dave how much did you OWE and how much had you on your offset account?

dave19692534

€144000 around 10 years left but. The plan was for me to put my my investment fund in on my 55 birthday one year away. We always over paid and in the last 3 years we put a extra 300€ off the interest

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121430091#Comment_121430091

I would be on to them asap and just tell them you are not signing anything as this is what is not been brought to the fore is that people can and could match the mortgage amount at any point in the future meaning on the excess above the ECB would have to be paid for the remainder of the mortgage.

soap1978

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121430091#Comment_121430091

Had u anything in the offset account or you didn't use it at all?

dave19692534

No we overpaing by around 700€. A month as the interest on the savings was only 5k

kerryjack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121430110#Comment_121430110

Don't think there is anything to sighn this is a done deal

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121430179#Comment_121430179

I dont think so I agreed this mortgage with First Active and Ulster Bank agreed to honor the terms when they bought them, they cant just force a resolution on people they only have to look at their history of doing this with the tracker mortgage scandals and I reckon they will be afraid of their lives of another fine. They need to pony up for the remainder of the term of the difference between the amount on top of the ECB that the persons tracker rate is and the differential of this and a rate of well over 4% (maybe what the current EBC rate is as Irish banks have been slow to up the rates but you can be sure in the next 12/24 they will be upping their mortgage rates) and they also need to do it with the future in mind as at any stage any one of the 4500 customers could come into money and offset the whole amount. So it should not be based on the past but on what savings would be given this scenario.

dave19692534

Totally agree that was our plan to right of the remaining mortgage. Will phone tomorrow and see how I get on.

preda

We have just over 4 years left. We have completely offset for the past few years and pay zero interest, saving 225 per month currently and we planned to continue this offsetting for the remaining mortgage term. They have only offered us 7300! This is thousands below what we would have saved and doesn't allow a cent for any interest increase either. They haven't shown how they came upon this figure. We should have been shown clearly their calculations. And UB should have explained how to get this all reassessed. The government/ombudsman should be involved and helping us.

kenif

Check the FAO n press release Dave. There is something in there about redundancy payments. And I can't find it now but think I had seen something about having money in your offset by a certain date.

johnreddington

Aged in late sixties with life savings in the facility account..who is going to offer us a mortgage..how will we pay the monthly instalments..offered 10 k two and a half years mortgage payments..a tragedy...considering goings to law

phormium

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121430689#Comment_121430689

But you don't need to take out a new mortgage anywhere, your mortgage will continue on with whoever they sell them to.

The repayments are another story, if you can't afford them that's a different situation, are you affording them now? In arrears? Many years left on mortgage? Repayments will rise alright with offsetting gone so I assume this is going to be your difficulty, I'm sure some will challenge it and they are probably expecting that, fire off a stern letter first and see if that brings an improved offer

paul321123

I have been using the offset so I don't pay interest, I have enough to cover my mortgage in this, when I receive my gratis payment in January is there anything stopping me from paying down my mortgage and hence make a few profit from what I have been told I would receive. Eg. Say mortgage is 40k, I have enough in my account to cover this, say the offer me 10k gratis could I just pay my mortgage down so 49k mortgage - 10k gratis +30k from facility, sorry if this is long winded but I hope you can understand what I mean.

phormium

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121430722#Comment_121430722

I don't actually understand what you mean 😐️

Is you mortgage 40k now, where is the 49k figure coming out of?

Edit - on re reading, do you mean just clear off your mortgage using the 10k payment plus 30k of your savings? If so no reason why not. I intend paying mine off as soon as I get the payment.

paul321123

Sorry that was a typo, say 40k mortgage outstanding, offered 10k gratis, so would I be correct in saying that I could add 30k and complete my mortgage, sorry for the confusion

phormium

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121430774#Comment_121430774

Yes, just get a redemption figure once you have received the money, transfer however much they ask you for from savings to mortgage and your deeds will be yours, well after they process it anyway 😀 Intend doing the very same thing myself.

paul321123

That sounds great, I was holding of paying down my mortgage but decided to hold on until this was all sorted out, it has worked out well for me if I can do that

phormium

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121430814#Comment_121430814

Same here, could have cleared it ages ago but paying no interest so thought I'd hold on for a while, advised someone else who wanted to clear theirs months ago to hold on for another while! They might owe me a drink 😂

paul321123

I think he need to buy you more that one drink. We're will the gratis payment be made to, eg facility account or savings account or do you need to give them another current account details,?

aoraki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121430587#Comment_121430587

Without knowing your exact figures, on the face of it that sounds like you've been seriously short changed there. If you have for example 50 payments left and you are saving 225 per month in interest payments that comes to over ¢11K. I'd seriously question how they got to that figure of 7300.

I haven't seen the format of the offer letter yet (still awaiting mine) so I don't know what level of detail they are putting in there and exactly how they are arriving at the payment they are offering you. The interest calculation they are doing is central to the whole thing and I'd want to be seeing exactly what this "yield curve" entails and how it is used. I'll wait and see what my own offer looks like before I make any further judgements. But you'd hope they would be transparent as possible in this regard.

I don't think there is anything stopping you from creating a case with the Banking ombudsman, or engaging the services of a financial advisor. By the sounds of it there might be a few going down that route. I might be one of them myself, who knows.

johnreddington

Our life savings are offset against the mortgage have paid no interest for years i am looking for others to come forward and take a class action against ub

johnreddington

I'm looking for other's who have a similar mortgage as ourselves to join together in a class action against Ulster bank

DB2023

No such thing as class action in Ireland

DB2023

I'm waiting on my letter. No idea of what offer will be. Some serious variation on here. I've 68 months left. Now owe 109000 but have had loan covered for last 2 years in current account so no interest charged. If they offer me interest saved till mortgage ends I'll be telling them to f off. Part of these mortgages was a facility that if you remortgaged for a new family home you would get your offset tracker for the new mortgage(but only the amount of you original mortgage on these terms). This part would be very valuable to some

phormium

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121430858#Comment_121430858

Don't think that info is out there yet, maybe it's in the FAQ on UB site, I haven't looked, I'm sure they will clarify that bit before January.

TheBaldyBuddha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121430957#Comment_121430957

Considering they claim to have doubled the figure they expect you to save.

I got mine today, Still 9 yrs left and TBH not used the offset facility much as have not been in a position to do so. But was planning on placing a large sum into the account in January due to Inheritance. How can they calculate without taking into account future feasible large sum lodgments.

Also the part in the FAQ saying yes they can remove the offset element quoting their T&C i drew down my current account mortgage from FirstActive and when Ulsterbank took over they changed it to an offset without any prior correspondence. I recall having issue with them placing two small top ups into one new account without any info beforehand, It wasn't until i called they informed me.

Come to think of it now the acc num on the letter is only for my main Mortgage and the other Offset top up account isn't quoted maybe i get another letter for that one 🙏

DB2023

What savings account are you talking about? UB closed all these 6 to 9 months ago?? Current and mortgage accounts only...

aoraki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121431158#Comment_121431158

You can offset your mortgage with up to 4 accounts. And those accounts can be either Current or Savings accounts. I am offsetting my mortgage with a couple of savings accounts myself, I don’t have a current account with Ulster Bank.

phormium

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121431151#Comment_121431151

The mortgage name was changed to Offset before FA amalgamated with UB, not sure if it was while they were both under RBS umbrella or not but definitely not after the merger, there were some minor changes to benefits on that change relating to repayment types, small issue but it was all pre UB

phormium

A person could still have their facility (current) account and linked deposit accounts open with the offset and indeed should at least have one as otherwise there is no way of actually getting the offsetting benefit, those accounts were not closed.

DB2023

They closed my saving account and moved my savings to current account?? Told me all savings accounts were closing. Now I'm assuming if you had no current account they couldn't do this. Really are a law onto themselves. I'm also assuming the Central Bank must have signed off on this plan ? They can't be doing a solo run after the shite they got into previously?

aoraki

Yeah, it seems arbitrary to be honest. I was well over 10 years into my mortgage before I started using the offset feature of my mortgage, but I am fully offsetting the mortgage now and have been for over 3 years. If this development had happened just a couple of years ago they would have considered me a non-user of the offsetting feature and would be offering me the bare minimum.

Who is to say that in the next couple of years other people that are currently not using the offset feature would start to use it more and more and get into a position where they can fully offset? Some people still have 20 years left to run on their mortgage term, a lot can happen in that time.

I think some people banded together when the tracker mortgage scandal broke. Maybe the same will happen here if enough people are unhappy with what Ulster Bank are doing.