Anti Immigration Sentiment

DUBLINIRL

There is clearly a growing anti immigration view in Ireland.

I'm not talking about the very small number of people who organised the chaos in Dublin recently or the thugs who took their opportunity to cause mayhem.

I'm talking about the regular people that feel that there has been too much immigration and there are a lot who don't speak up much.

I can't get a good sense of the range of issues they have with immigration because any time that someone offers up an anti immigration viewpoint they are shouted down so nobody else offers their opinion.

How can we solve the problem if we don't listen and try to understand the problem?

spurious

How do we fill all the unfilled jobs if we curb immigration?

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121426049#Comment_121426049

Just curb it somewhat and maintain immigration access for applicants with skills/experience in required areas?

nachouser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058324743/anti-immigration-sentiment

What is the problem? Go for it - explain the problem. We're all ears.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121426049#Comment_121426049

Pay proper wages for a start

spurious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121426062#Comment_121426062

So it's not 'GERREM OUT', just 'Get some of them out'?

Perhaps the shoe stealers will sign up for further education in these required areas.

JeffreyEpspeen

I'm consistent. I have as much of a problem with the Irish overstaying visas in America as I do with the plethora of spongers we have coming to this country.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058324743/anti-immigration-sentiment

Maybe stop pretending you get shut down for being anti-immigration. The world has enough real problems without people having to invent more.

em_cat

Honestly I don’t think there is a good anti immigration viewpoint bc let’s be honest the basis of the viewpoint is pure bigotry and racism.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121426136#Comment_121426136

Agree but i'd add pure ignorance to that list.

angel eyes 2012

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121426049#Comment_121426049

We had a population increase of 100,000 in the 12 months to April 2023. Surely, it is simple maths, any significant increase will require additional services and employees throughout the economy. Likewise, any significant reduction will result in less pressure on schools, hospitals, housing etc. which will require less jobs to be filled.

Maybe I'm missing something, please inform me if I am, all I know is the public health system is in significant trouble and this impacts on anyone with a chronic illness and/or a disability.

NIMAN

Every country needs immigration.

But it's OK to put rules on immigration so that you aren't flooding the country with wasters and those who might have criminal intent or tendencies. The problem many have is that we, as a nation, seem to be poor controlling this part of the system.

And we now see those supposedly escaping a war zone who have been made welcome here in great numbers and at great expense, able to return to the same war torn country for Xmas holidays, before returning again. News like this is what's annoying many folk.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121426217#Comment_121426217

The optics around immigration are terrible.

The Irish government plámased the Irish public for years over homelessness, but opened the purse immediately when the eyes of the world were on us over Ukrainian refugees.

Personally I think Ukrainian refugee status should be revisited. Western Ukraine is as safe as Poland at this stage and the war is so static that most of central Ukraine is very safe also.

The immigration office should clearly publish how many people are arriving in Ireland and what visa they're arriving on. The information is there, but it's a little difficult to access and definitely not widely publicised.

For instance there is approx 30k working visas issued so far this year, most to Indian workers, and mostly for healthcare workers. Fantastic news, but the average person on the street wouldn't know this. They would just see a lot of non-irish faces in the street.

dmakc

I'm supportive of those who come here to contribute to society, I'm also anti welfare sponges, which seems to be what we're stuffing into rural hotels with no actions taken to deport those found playing the system.

The issue is when a rational view like this is raised (at least online), you get accusations of racism, far-right, outright denial that bogus asylum seekers exist and "what about Irish welfare sponges" i.e. deflection

I'm yet to see a coherent argument for the endless influx of asylum seekers with zero actions on deportation orders for those who fail. Helen couldn't even give a straight answer to this recently

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121426178#Comment_121426178

The pressure on schools, hospitals and housing due to the increase in population is due to a shortage of teachers in schools, doctors and nurses in hospitals and builders to build more houses and people generally in the workforce. To solve this problem of lack of personnel, immigration needs to increase.

Spanish Eyes

There is absolutely nothing wrong with visa required immigration. Bring them in in their droves we need them.

So the problem then is???

Burt Renaults

I think the sentiment has always been there. It's just being amplified more at the moment, and people feel more empowered to say the quiet bits out loud.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121426276#Comment_121426276

No long term plan for thousands in "temporary" accommodation, no repatriation of illegal immigrants and a contradictory housing strategy that hands out thousands in HAP, HTB, First Home Scheme, while increasing the base cost of housing with concrete levies and restrictive planning and building regulations.

Solve these issues and we're a long way to reducing anti immigration sentiment.

Spanish Eyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121426297#Comment_121426297

Possibly will help somewhat. But on a practical level unless the numbers yet to make their way over to us and who end up in such accommodation is curbed, and supervised deportations happen, the problem will build up again surely?

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121426217#Comment_121426217

How dare they visit their loved ones like normal people eh?

What skin is it off your or anyone else's nose what law abiding people whether they're from here or not do?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121426062#Comment_121426062

No problem at all with those who come to fill those jobs except with extreme right wingers.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121426112#Comment_121426112

You seem like a very intelligent contributor. A true master debater.

Spanish Eyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121426331#Comment_121426331

That is not the point being made. Either the country is too dangerous to live in hence the refugee status here, or it's safe. I think people looking on often wonder why they left the country on a refugee program because of danger to life, yet can visit for a holiday/Christmas and feel safe there. It's a fair question really.

dmakc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121426331#Comment_121426331

You see, we're paying for their stay here as it's apparently unsafe for them to be back home.

If they take this two week holiday to go back home, and all come back to clock-in on Jan 7th's welfare deadline, its a bit of a pisstake and a slap in the face to the tax payer, no?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121426295#Comment_121426295

To me it first manifested with the expansion soon of the EU when Eastern Europeans came to Ireland “to take our jobs” in an era where there was more unemployment. It was relatively “mild”, but it built upon that. As my late father, who died in 2001 after almost a decade of vascular dementia, said back in 80s-90s, in response to sentiment expressed on TV how friendly and accepting Ireland was to occasional foreign immigrants and foreign medical staff, “Ireland may not be racist now, but when we died get our share of mass immigration bit will rear its head”.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121426355#Comment_121426355

It's fair if you would be happy to go there for a holiday yourself at the moment?

growleaves

The issue is deliberately mis-framed in multiple ways by media and others. People who should know better accept and repeat glib formulas about 'fuelling economic growth'. They don't ask about the precise nature of this growth, who is benefitting from it and how (e.g. per capita GDP vs general GDP vs GNP), and would rather not inquire too much into it.

Other, even less wise people, insist that the crux of the issue is either we commit to opening our borders open-endedly or else we're all guilty of the nastiest kind of racial prejudice. This is demagoguery and not honest nor level-headed.

There are social, economic, cultural, infrastructural issues around large-scale mass immigration and even issues of democracy and governance, as the Government steamrolls over the will of the people and says "I'm not asking for your permission bro!"

For this post I'm going to talk about one economic aspect...

From the business ownership lobbyist/Chamber of Commerce POV turning Ireland into a denationalised economic 'zone' with vast, inbound population transfers is mainly a mechanism to suppress wages. There may be economic booms in the future but concomitant booms in wages will be short-lived and accidental if they occur at all, as the open door to EU immigration makes it difficult for wage rises in any industry to get off the ground. Don't expect any more Celtic Tigers.

I'll give an example of which I have first-hand knowledge. From around 2021 until recently there was a shortage of construction workers in Ireland and a consequent boom in wages. Out of the blue and unsolicited in 2021 people were being offered €20 an hour for general labourer work. Similar work was hovering around the €14 mark in 2018 - a sudden rise of over 25%. That has tapered off now and it has recently become more difficult to find construction work - not true of all construction niches obviously, but true in general - and wages are starting to decline again with some people I know getting pessimistic and calling it a "race to the bottom". The rate per hour rises over the last 2 years drew in more workers from within the native Irish population, which is what happens when a slice of the population readjusts its priorities in response to economic incentives.

There are still a LOT of roles in construction but they are filled quickly and there are many people who can't get jobs. So labour shortage solved. Great. Happy ending.

Yet the other day an 'expert' (bureaucratic mouthpiece) on RTÉ was a complaining about the "labour shortage in Construction". Err what?

Newsflash: To Establishment people the 'shortage' is only over when there is a HUGE labour glut and a dip in wages. They are trying to bid down the price of labour. They will lobby for an oversupply of workers, in every industry. Employers can then have their pick, and the insecurity this creates weakens both trade unions' basic negotiating position as well as that of individual workers.

growleaves

Part 2... (decided to break up my post because it was so long!)

I can't read commentary on this web site around this issue [labour shortages] without rolling my eyes.

All the boardsies waking up at night in cold sweats "AHHHHH we're not gonna have enough people to fill all the jobs!!!! We have a labour shortage AHHHH!!!!"

"What's wrong honey? What is it?"

"I had a nightmare that there weren't enough kitchen porters and wages crept up from €12 an hour to €14 an hour!!"

"Don't worry honey, it was just a dream. Go back to sleep"

There is still a shortage in health administration roles afaik, an actual one, but for how long?

Generic admin roles though? I've seen, in some cases, 100+ applicants - with roughly around 30+ Irish and 70+ or so applying from foreign countries. Thanks to wonders of the internet, wages can be underbid without even leaving one's home. Wow the global village

Yes, we have relied on foreign nurses to a big extent and still do. Which does NOT mean we need a general labour glut across every industry sought indiscriminately without thought.

Now a poster or two will reply to me and say "Blah blah I work in this industry/recruitment/whatever and we couldn't hire anyone for x role". What they won't admit upfront is that they were hiring for a specialist niche role, in most if not all cases, which might have been difficult to fill anyway.

As someone noted in a different thread there is now in Denmark and Germany left-wing-led advocacy of immigration restriction. Even serious left-wing people are beginning to have second thoughts on this big topic.

NSAman

I don't have an issue with legal immigration. What I have a MAJOR issue with is Economic Migrants/Illegal Immigrants.

Every country needs immigrants, however, our system is broken.

Refusal of entry means a merry go-round of Free Legal Aid and free basically everything until the appeal is heard. Deportation rarely happens or as in the case of our Stabbing "citizen" you gain citizenship (how? I just amazed!)

People who come to Ireland SHOULD have proper documentation. No Passport... straight on the next plane out. That's Simple.

I have been through the immigrant process. It has cost me thousands, It has taken years. I have never been a burden on the Country I am in. I have worked. I have my passport and have never lost it. My skills are in demand and I have worked my way through, due to my then employer ( now business partners) not being able to find someone to do my job.

Refugees are another story. However, the same rules apply if you are a refugee as an Irish citizen. Obey the laws (I know that is not an Irish thing in reality). You are still trying to become an integrated member of your host country, its not that difficult. Learn the ways and the language a little....lord knows there is a HUGE amount of money spent on this.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121426493#Comment_121426493

Illegal immigration is likely a fraction of a percent in Ireland. Probably more people overstaying visas than arriving here illegally.

It gets a vastly disproportionate amount of focus.

Same with dole lifers. Less than 1% of people on the live register have been on it for more than 10 years, but here on Boards you'd think everyone's next door neighbour was knocking back cans at 11am on a Monday morning.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121426532#Comment_121426532

Are you sure about that 1% figure?

Here is some data from 2018:

https://assets.gov.ie/180720/8c9ba2c8-521f-453b-b8d2-758dfd787bce.pdf

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121426532#Comment_121426532

Illegal immigration is a small share of total immigration, yes, you are correct.

But it costs the taxpayers a lot - 42m per month on accomm alone, to house illegal immigrants.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/government-spending-over-e42-million-on-refugee-accomodation-centres-1478855.html#:~:text=The%20Government%20is%20spending%20more,asylum%20seekers%2C%20new%20figures%20reveal.

StupidLikeAFox

There was a net migration to ireland of 77k up to April 2023. That's a population increase of around 1% - if your services can't deal with that increase it's down to **** services. Its also hardly a mass migration, open borders policy or the invasion some would have you believe. There are no foreign ghettos or no-go areas (which is an issue in places like france).

scottser

Easy, for every scrote we catch rioting we take in 100 to take his place, to pay enough tax to keep the little bollix in the joy for 10 years.

Strumms

immigration…

more demand for housing.

pushes up the cost of housing and rent.

contributes to increased hospital waiting lists.

contributes to increased demand on virtually all public services… transport, education etc…

such population growth is unsustainable….

• On Census Night, Sunday, 03 April 2022, the population of Ireland was 5,149,139.
• The figure increased by 387,274 people since April 2016.
• This represents total growth of 8.1% over the six years since Census 2016, or an annual average increase of 1.3%.
• In the previous intercensal period, 2011 to 2016, the total growth was 3.8%, or an annual average increase of 0.7%.

3.8% to 8.1%….in a very short time…

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121426812#Comment_121426812

Asylum seekers are not illegal immigrants

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121426217#Comment_121426217

And, while they're here, get praised for being industrious and hard working and more reliable than the natives in the same jobs. They're happy to be here, and sure they're returning then coming back. Some might even become citizens and raise the level of hard work in Ireland, which would be a good thing.

If I were you, I'd book a holiday to Kyiv to verify your hypothesis that it's not a war zone. Have a good trip.

Quitelife

The amount of refugees been landed in some small towns is not sustainable and causing huge issues .

The hotel or place putting them up is getting paid far too much and making millionaires out of the hotel owner . These hotel owners aren’t doing it out of any good will gesture but out of pure greeed - many of these people housing refugees are connected closely to politicians who are turning a blind eye to the impact of the broader community.

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427091#Comment_121427091

They’re not no

But many of them are not “actual” asylum seekers either. Many are economic migrants taking advantage of our soft touch system to gain residency here.

Anyone arriving on a plane from a designated safe country claiming they “lost” their passport should be told to piss off.

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2022/10/06/thousands-of-passengers-destroy-or-lose-passports-before-arrival-at-dublin-airport/

How many times have you lost your passport mid flight? I’m not saying it can’t happen but it would be extremely rare. Strangely this rare occurrence happens to a large portion of apparent asylum seekers arriving here.

I’m then happy for our country to take asylum seekers, but with the caveat they are at least genuine. We are far too lax currently.

highpressisbest

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121426472#Comment_121426472

Two really excellent posts. It’s amazing how successfully the narrative has been pushed that there are massive labour shortages in virtually ever sector and the only answer is ever increasing immigration. Which in turn requires increasing immigration to service this increased immigration. And no push back at all from the alleged parties of the left.

Beechwoodspark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427143#Comment_121427143

I know of a number of councillors who are collecting big money housing the asylum seekers. Their hotels would be run down 1/2 star type places.

FF and FG mainly.

Just to add - these establishments were not exactly flat out with business before they became migrant centres - You’d guess far more profitable now.

Beechwoodspark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427143#Comment_121427143

Healy Raes another example.

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121426062#Comment_121426062

Tried that in UK with Brexit and it's failed.

We need people in services like cleaning, hospitality industry etc.

The economy needs these people more than importing accountants and solicitors that anti-immigrant people want.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427214#Comment_121427214

That's fine, just wanted to point out the claim

"But it costs the taxpayers a lot - 42m per month on accomm alone, to house illegal immigrants." was wrong.

It cost the tax payer 42m a month to house asylum seekers.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427234#Comment_121427234

Anyone can get 800 a month to rent a room to a Ukrainian refugee. https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving-country/ukrainian-refugees-in-ireland/accommodation-recognition-payment/

highpressisbest

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427105#Comment_121427105

If the Irish are so feckless and lazy, how did Ireland get to be allegedly among the richest countries in the world? And btw I agree with you that the Ukrainians will prove to be excellent citizens in general. Culturally similar and no requirement for special status or different rules.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427274#Comment_121427274

It's a giant tax shelter for the US.

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121426297#Comment_121426297

You're partly right. The issue is housing and not enough housing being available or affordable or being built to meet demand.

This is not the immigrants fault.

The level of illegal immigration is tiny and anti immigrants (racists really) link refugees with illegal immigrants . There's nothing illegal about claiming asylum in a country.

Also, the vast majority of immigrants that come here are working and contributing to society and the economy. They're not entitled to social welfare or HAP and they numbers that get is greatly exagerrated by anti immigrant mob.

Do you think the people who wrecked the city centre on Thursday were all in work the next day or living off social welfare?

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427249#Comment_121427249

Seems to work alright in Australia and Canada and Japan and Brazil and New Zealand and Singapore and the countless other countries that you can’t just say you’re a “language student” or that you lost your passport and want IP and gain entry to the country.

I’m all for immigration, absolutely it is very important to the country and I’m very supportive of that. But there has to be more barriers on it - we’ve had an enormous increase in population the last two years and our services are under severe strain. We should be getting on top of that first rather than importing more people to fix our problem of too many people.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427105#Comment_121427105

Irish natives do not have a reputation for being unreliable in the first place, so what makes Ukrainians "more reliable"?

I wonder are you just re-purposing propaganda for domestic consumption...because it has been said over and over (I've seen it in many contexts) that Poles are more reliable than homegrown British people within Britain.

Do you know lots of Irish people who don't show up for work and get fired, don't do any work while at work, or else what are you basing this on?

highpressisbest

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427249#Comment_121427249

All accountants and solicitors agree with you!

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121426079#Comment_121426079

Pay proper wages yourself.

All these people who have solutions that other people should do.