Gardai now best paid workers in the state - CSO

KaneToad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121429476#Comment_121429476

Because the allowances add an additional 25%-30% to basic pay. It is also a job with an entry requirement of a pass leaving certificate. (Notwithstanding that many entrants have higher qualifications).

I don't know many who join the public sector to get rich. Job security would seem to be a major factor though.

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121430570#Comment_121430570

In farness given you expertise in the area ....... o wait.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121429479#Comment_121429479

With full service, yes, their combined pension, like for all public servants, will be 50% of former salary.

But the State Pension element does not start until age 66.

hoodie6029

Any chance that this is in furtherance of a recruitment drive? Numbers are down, ‘Forget them aul computers and college. The pay is great here. Come work where the scum of the earth will spit on you and walk free from Court, free to spit on you again’

Peter Flynt

"Hello Irish Times? Pwaschal here. . . . Having a bit of trouble here with the Gardaí. No, not recruiting. Don't care if we're understaffed or they're leaving. They seem to think they're worthy of a decent pay rise on account of what went on with the far right last Thursday. Little do they know we're the far right eh? Anyway any chance you could run a piece on how great they have it? Yeah? Thanks"

nolivesmatter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428986#Comment_121428986

Is a 34k starting salary and job security for someone without a particular skillset that bad? And most people I know aren't earning near 50k regardless of how long they've been working, public or private.

I wouldn't have an issue paying them some more, but I don't think it's reasonable to expect it to be competitive with private sectors where demand for certain skills will obviously cause a rise in salaries.

Gusser09

Some Gardai are underpaid, some are overpaid. The same goes for nurses. Like any career there are good ones and bad.

hamburgham

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121430812#Comment_121430812

Yes,they’re not spending years studying and thousands of euros in college fees. Their 2 year training costs them nothing. In fact,do they receive an allowance? Nurses spend 4 years training and it costs them thousands.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121430683#Comment_121430683

That (50%) is not the case for anyone recruited into the public sector since 2013.

Geuze

Yes, for staff hired since 2013, it's 50% of career-average earnings, not 50% of final salary.

Hotblack Desiato

That article is complete spin.

They even chose the time period to include a backdated pay settlement to bump up the figures.

What was earned during the period in question was less. Then they throw in overtime and allowances as if working a 60 hour week, night shifts etc. is normal in the jobs they're comparing it to.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121430611#Comment_121430611

So if you think this is so excellent you should apply to be a Garda. I pointed out the freely available pay scale.

con___manx1

At the end of the day the gardai earn there money here . That 24/7shift pattern is not easy. Unsocial hours and they can't even land a bat on someone without fear of being suspended or brought to court. I never knew this until the dublin riots. That really needs to change.

I would have no problem with the gardai using more force. its only the criminals that Need to worry. The gardai should not be worried about repercussions especially when they feel threatened like what happened last week. They are let down big time by this government.

Now wonder the gardai are leaving in there droves. It's not worth the money. Can't even defend themselves.

OrangeBadger

With the amount of sh1te they have to deal with no amount of money would get me to do that job plus

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121430683#Comment_121430683

But Gardai still get pension - 50% of salary - plus tax free lump sum of 18 months salary, after only 30 years service. It explains how so many Gardai were able to retire in their very early fifties.

I remember the paper done an article some years ago explaining how the same pension in the private sector would cost well over a million to buy.

A huge perk if ever there was one.

rob316

Averages are a meaningless measurement for salaries.

Nermal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121431037#Comment_121431037

Why? It's perfectly reasonable to call it excellent without being in the least tempted to apply.

A further point on the pension: after retirement, it's increased in line with wage increases given to the role from which you retired.

This 'feature' cannot be bought in the private sector. At any price.

Nermal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432207#Comment_121432207

In public sector roles the average is anything but meaningless. The 'CEO' is likely to be earning 2-3 times the average.

It's only in the private sector that pay at the top distorts the average.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432189#Comment_121432189

So what.

For the job that they do they absolutely deserve this.

This begrudger mentality has to stop.

Go and apply for the guards if you think it’s such a good job ffs 🤦‍♂️!

HeidiHeidi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432189#Comment_121432189

There's a dwindling number of Gardai entitled to this - the retirement conditions changed in 1995 and again in 2013, and are far less favourable.

So the "retire at 30 years with the gold plated pension" will soon be a thing of the past. But yet it's the one line that's always trotted out without contradiction.

And if overtime is included in those (highly misleading IMO) figures, well then that overtime had to be worked, over and above an average 40 hour week (the highest in the PS I believe) mostly done on shift work (again, those unsocial hours allowances are not free money, you have to work unsocial hours to earn them).

All the while taking abuse from the general public and on forums like boards.

It's far from the cushy number that people seem to think it is.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432338#Comment_121432338

You say its "far from the cushy number that people seem to think it is.". Well, I know Gardai in their very early fifties who retired on their "golden pension" and we know each other well enough for them to confide it was a very cushy number. They were in a rural area and it was not exactly high pressure or exceptionally dangerous or anything. Ask any estate agent and they will also tell you that the stereotypical Garda, married to the nurse or teacher, with their rental properties and frequent holidays abroad was not far off the mark.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121431037#Comment_121431037

If I was young enough again and not that ambituous and not that hard working, it would be very tempting to freewheel at school, not study too hard, and get a cushy but guaranteed and pensionable job for life. When I was young though, the brightest people did not tend to go in to the Gardai. If you got a great leaving cert, you did not apply for the Gardai. If I had, I'd have been retired on a golden pension in my late forties. Going off on Ryanair flights every month to Europe, and maybe even having a holiday home in Portugal to play golf from, like one retired Garda I know.

HeidiHeidi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432364#Comment_121432364

The Gardai who are working these days, though, are not working under those conditions, or anything like them.

That's what you don't seem to get.

The job today is nothing like it was when those retired Gardai were working.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432364#Comment_121432364

Would you stop! 😂

So a couple of guards from rural areas that you happen to know had cushy experiences, therefore all guards have it easy and don’t face life threatening scenarios?

The mind boggles how some people think.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432364#Comment_121432364

If you’re relying on estate agents to back up your argument, you’ve lost all credibility.

HeidiHeidi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432364#Comment_121432364

How do you think you'd have retired in your 40's?

HeidiHeidi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432429#Comment_121432429

Not a lot of credibility to lose, tbh - trotting out old hackneyed clichés like they're gospel truth, with clearly not a clue of the up to date actual job conditions.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432364#Comment_121432364

Let all that bitterness out

OK so you've established that some garda posts are (or, rather, once were) relatively easy numbers. So what? Others were and are far more difficult and stressful.

As for the 30 year pension, do we really expect 60+ year olds to be chasing after teenage thugs? AFAIK there is full pension entitlement after 30 years now but it's not paid out until 65.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432364#Comment_121432364

In fairness, that Garda in their fifties he's entirely different terms to Gardai from the last ten years. That's pretty relevant.

LambshankRedemption

A bit off topic, but reported just now that more gardai are to get public order training, to top up the current 1000 Gardai who got the training.

I had always assumed public order training was part of the standard garda training curriculum.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432430#Comment_121432430

It is on page 9 of the 47 page book on Garda pensions my cousin has, and as he pointed out it is available online too:

Quote "Gardaí who attested before 6 th April 1995 are entitled to retire at or after 50 years of age, provided they have achieved 30 years’ service. With 30 years’ service, they receive the maximum pension which is 50% of final pensionable pay (Basic2 + Roster premium + Pensionable Allowances 3 ). "

I know of one lad who stopped working as a Garda just before his 50th birthday, but he had holidays etc due to him, so his nice golden pension kicked off soon after that, when he was 50 and retired.

https://www.gra.ie/documents/GRA-Pensions-Booklet-Jul17-red.pdf

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432777#Comment_121432777

You know some amount of Guards.

I know a few myself. All except one of them in the process of leaving. And only in their 30s. Doesnt seem like a great job to me from they tell me.

HeidiHeidi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432777#Comment_121432777

And you've already been told more than once that those conditions are almost a thing of the past.

Drag yourself into the 21st century like a good man, and maybe take the rose-tinted blinkers off.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432837#Comment_121432837

This is the 21st century, and like a " good man" yourself you should remember that the lads retiring now and who retired in the past few years got / are getting those pensions. Not saying if it is right or wrong, just stating a fact. No need to be so defensive.

Nermal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432528#Comment_121432528

I'm sure we could find other more suitable work to occupy them.

Astartes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432409#Comment_121432409

Galavanting about on Ryanair flights. The CHEEK of them..

Is this the Liveline thread?

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432806#Comment_121432806

The average pay of Gardai (inc overtime) is €82,000, according to the report the OP quoted / statistics.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-elcq/earningsandlabourcostsq22023finalq32023preliminaryestimates/

Do not tell your 30 year old friends to join the PSNI anyway, their starting salary is only £26,682. PSNI officers earn 30 to 43 k basic pay a year then after many years work. Hardly worth it. When in N.I. they still have to check under their cars every morning afaik - Gardai here do not have to do that. Now that would be stress I would say - living on £26,682 and having to check under your car and putting up with sh*t and worrying about been recognised when off duty.

By comparison, I would say having a safe secure guaranteed pensionable ( defined benefit pension, virtually impossible to get in the private sector ) job on an average €82,000 is pretty good going. This country is f***ed if you think a secure job @ 82k a year with perks like d.b. pension etc is not good.

HeidiHeidi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432971#Comment_121432971

"By comparison, I would say having a safe secure guaranteed pensionable ( defined benefit pension, virtually impossible to get in the private sector ) job on an average €82,000 is pretty good going. This country is f***ed if you think a secure job @ 82k a year with perks like d.b. pension etc is not good."

There are so many inaccuracies in this I don't really know where to start.

Comparing €82K for Gardai with £26K for PSNI is comparing apples to cabbages - one includes overtime, one is a starting wage, one is an average figure which includes all ranks and a back payment in that period. So that comparison is complete rubbish.

And for the third (and last) time I'll tell you again, the defined benefit pension is a thing of the past, it does not exist any more. Nor does the possibility to retire at age 50.

But you know this already (because you've been told numerous times) but you choose to ignore it because it doesn't suit your bizarre, ridiculous narrative.

Geuze

All PS pensions are, and remain, DB pensions.

There have been reforms to make them less generous, yes, but they are all still DB pensions.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121433374#Comment_121433374

Correct. And as the lads retiring now will confirm, as per page 9 of the official 47 page book on Garda pensions

available online too: https://www.gra.ie/documents/GRA-Pensions-Booklet-Jul17-red.pdf

Quote "Gardaí who attested before 6 th April 1995 are entitled to retire at or after 50 years of age, provided they have achieved 30 years’ service. With 30 years’ service, they receive the maximum pension which is 50% of final pensionable pay (Basic2 + Roster premium + Pensionable Allowances 3 ). "

So the lads retiring now, and in the past few years can and do retire after 30 years service, on 50% of final pensionable pay. Plus they get 18 months tax free salary.

Nobody is claiming new entrants get that.

And when you compare Garda pay in N.I. with what the PSNI get ( starting salary of only £26,682 ) for arguably more dangerous work, hell, you realise average Garda pay of €82,000 per year as the CSO and OP reported is not bad at all. Not many other people get 82k a year, plus a d.b. pension etc.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432971#Comment_121432971

So what if that’s the rate of pay and perks on offer.

Everyone could apply for those jobs if they wanted.

Why don’t you?

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121433799#Comment_121433799

Ive worked in jobs in the past that did not interest me and its safe to say I did the bare minimum. Doing that for a career because of the pension seems like a self induced prison sentence.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121433736#Comment_121433736

£26k is about €31k which is equivalent to garda starting salary here.

What is your point exactly?

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121433848#Comment_121433848

Are you implying the guards do the bare minimum?

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121433883#Comment_121433883

No I am not brushing them all with the same brush. I am saying anyone who joined just for the generous pension might.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121433895#Comment_121433895

Do you know anyone that joins at a young age and then does the bare minimum so that they can go and enjoy their pension?

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121433799#Comment_121433799

The reason, as said before "If I was young enough again and not that ambitous and not that hard working, it would be very tempting to freewheel at school, not study too hard, and get a cushy but guaranteed and pensionable job for life. When I was young though, the brightest people did not tend to go in to the Gardai. If you got a great leaving cert, you did not apply for the Gardai. If I had, I'd have been retired on a golden pension in my late forties. Going off on Ryanair flights every month to Europe, and maybe even having a holiday home in Portugal to play golf from, like one retired Garda I know."

Besides, not everyone in the country can or should work as a Garda on 82k a year etc. The country would be bankrupt in no time if everyone got that and retired after 30 years on a defined benefit golden pension.

KaneToad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121431037#Comment_121431037

I pointed out the full financial package. I just think it's disingenuous to only point out basic pay.

KaneToad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121433374#Comment_121433374

True. One main change is that they are based on average career earnings rather than final salary. This will have an effect on those that get promoted later on in their careers, which tbf is when most ppl get promoted in most sectors.

Public sector pensions are definitely not as favourable as they once were. It shouldn't be forgotten either that they are integrated with the state pension as opposed to being on top of it.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432777#Comment_121432777

Nice one, giving us information from just short of 30 years ago which is all but totally irrelevant today to anyone still serving apart from the very top ranks.

HerrKuehn

Generally accepted practice when comparing public and private sector jobs is to always pick the newest/lowest benefits available in PS, to compare net PS salaries to gross private salaries and also disregard any additional payments and just quote the absolute basic salary.