Can an energy provider charge me for energy used prior to starting a contract with them?

Happyhouse22

I realize this shouldn’t happen, but I think due to an error for ESB networks it did.

At first I tried to be reasonable and offered to pay for the electricity I used, and despite being offered credits from the company which suggests some wrong doing, I am still being charged 2023 prices for electricity used in 2021.

At this point I am thinking I should just refuse to pay the provider for any electricity used prior to the start of my contract. I have evidence of how much this is so seems pretty clear, my question is do they have an entitlement to charge me for electricity used prior to the start of a contract?

The rest of the energy used would then be the responsibility of ESB networks/previous provider to chase me for.

Any thoughts?

No.

Are you renting?

Calahonda52

A lot missing from the post for it to make sense, however a refusal to pay runs the risk of damage to your credit rating

Mods maybe move to legal/consumer

Jim_Hodge

OP seriously lacking details.

Did you give a starting meter reading when you moved in? Refusing to pay will get you nowhere but in a bind.

bren2001

You need to provide a lot more details.

Happyhouse22

Thanks for the responses.

I could give all the details - but honestly nobody will know what to do.

right now I’m just wondering if a provider can charge for electricity used before opened my account. I did provide meter readings, have provided pictures of the meter at different readings over time and have the had data showing actual usage.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121437486#Comment_121437486

The fact you're not giving the details means there is probably something fishy going on. Yes, you could be liable if you're trying to game them, it entirely depends on the situation.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121437486#Comment_121437486

Then, without the details, it's pointless asking the question in the first place.

Sleeper12

I suggest detail everything and send it to the energy regulator. If there is any wrong doing they will get to the bottom of it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121437486#Comment_121437486

Yeah without details it looks dodgy from your side.

Conspiracy theory hat on.

I'm guessing someone closed an account and submitted meter readings.

Then someone ( maybe the op?) Didn't open a new account for a long time but expected free energy by not registering with a provider.

That someone ( maybe the op? ) then thought by opening a new account and submitting the latest meter readings thought they would be starting from scratch with the latest readings as a starting point.

The issues providers will have is that from the reading of the closed account to a massive difference of the new opened account reading. Someone has to pay.

I'm guessing someone ( maybe the OP?) Already knows why there is a discrepancy.

* Takes off hat

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121440925#Comment_121440925

I am not sure a tin-foil hat is required for this one. It looks fairly clear that something like you describe is happening here. In which case, yeah, they could be liable.

Obviously in 99% of cases, you cannot be charged for electricity when you did not "own" the meter. This is likely the 1%.

Allinall

OP. If you used the electricity, then you must pay for it.

There may be a dispute as to who you pay, but you are liable one way or the other.

chrisd2019

The person who had the account registered in their name is liable.

IF this is a rental property, then talk to the landlord or owner, regarding history.

IF it a shared rental with room sharing ect., the supplier has no interest in disputes between the residence about portioning the bill.

YOU should not be refusing to pay for current usage.

As others said there is a regulator and complaints procedures available.

Happyhouse22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121440925#Comment_121440925

hi just replying to this as it somewhat close to the situation.

except no scam on my part…

I tried multiple times to open an account and had many calls with ESB networks and various electricity providers to no avail.I signed up for an account with electric Ireland but it never moved beyond the pending stage. Despite this I always had electricity.

About 12 months in I tried to open a new account with Bord Gais, submitted meter readings etc and after multiple calls they finally admitted they couldn’t and someone in ESB networks also finally acknowledged there was an issue and began an investigation, I received absolutely no communication for 9 months until I was finally issued by a bill.However the bill didn’t give me any of the government credits I should have received and charged me at 2023 prices for electricity used from 2021-2023. I initiated a complaint, which I was told would be resolved within 24 days. But again three months later after multiple calls and emails lies and misinformation from Bord Gais I finally received acknowledgment that my complaint was resolved. They issued me with an apology and a cheque for the value of the government credits but no mention of the incorrect pricing,

I sent them more emails and calls but again no response… I finally got to talk to someone in the complaints teams on Wednesday morning and they promised to call me back on Wednesday afternoon but again I haven’t heard from. This has been a constant in my dealings with both Bord Gais and with ESB networks, I write this message because I no longer want to deal with Bord Gais it has been a horrible process that has wasted hours of my time. I was hoping I could just offer to pay them what I owe for my time under contract with them,(as evidenced by hdf data from ESBnetworks.ie and photos I had taken), and then just resolve the rest of the issue with ESB networks/ electric ireland

so I guess this post was made in frustration. I am happy to pay for the electricity I used, but cannot even get to talk to someone to help me resolve the issue.

Sorry realise this still leaves out lots of details, but honestly feel like I need hours to write it all out,

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121442765#Comment_121442765

So which provider is looking for the backdated money?

Happyhouse22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121443374#Comment_121443374

Bord Gais are.

But there are still refusing to acknowledge it’s backdated… instead claiming I used it all since October 2022.

However I have evidence that I didn’t.. which I have sent to them multiple which they basically refuse to acknowledge.

Thats kind of why I’m asking the question, if they continue to insist on billing from only October 2022 on then I figureI’ll pay them for what I used from October 2022…

Less me wanting to scam them and more getting frustrated with the process and wanting to use their own logic against them

bren2001

Contact the regulator.

It's logical you pay the rate from that time if you have photos with timestamps proving the meter reading.

You had an unconnected meter for over a year. You really should have been onto the ESB everyday to get that resolved. You also should have been putting money away for the bill. There's no way you'll get a backdated energy credit.

I still don't think you're telling the full story.

To answer your original question, you'll be charged for all the electricity you used. Even before you joined Bord Gais. The question has now changed.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121437486#Comment_121437486

If you used electricity knowing you did not have an account with the provider and then engaged in discussions with them about it, thus acknowledging your actions you could ultimately face a criminal complaint, in the worst case situation, together with having it reported on your CCR. Play silly games, win silly prizes.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121444656#Comment_121444656

In relation to this, who does the OP pay?

Can BG collect backdated payments when they were not the provider during the time that the OP had no account?

Would it be better to contact Electric Ireland as I'm guessing they would have the closest ties with ESB networks?

Did you contact ESB networks themselves in relation to the payment plan option

https://www.esbnetworks.ie/existing-connections/pay-an-invoice/payment-options

I don't know of that plan is used for installations or what.

sydthebeat

I find it HIGHLY unlikely you were "unable to open an account with any electricity providers".

All you need is your mprn, your bank details and the meter reading.

There are loads of phone numbers which will walk you through baby steps to get this done.

If there was issues I would suggest it was from your end.

CramCycle

You have to pay someone, message the regulator, be very clear and concise with what happened, don't half tell the story. You are either paying the bill as it is or you'll get away with the 2022 rates. There should have been actual readings taken from ESB to confirm if your story adds up, so ring them and ask for the previous few actual readings and dates if they are able to hand them out to you. This will clarify the truth very quickly.

CramCycle

Just to clarify though, when you signed up with Bord Gais at their rates, my experience with other suppliers is it is the reading from the date you moved in, on the basis they are your technical first supplier. Not sure how much leeway the regulator can give or enforce but don't hang about if you have plans for a loan, mortgage etc. In the near future.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121444742#Comment_121444742

I actually have no idea.

I'd start with the CRU and see what happens. I doubt he will

Happyhouse22

Thanks for the advice guys.

Some of it has been quite helpful.

to address a few of the points made.

Have been onto the CRU, they weren’t helpful to be honest. Saying I needed to contact ESB networks to sort it out.

Have put money away for it. Just don’t want to pay more than I owe.

Someone mentioned that I wouldn’t get backdated energy credits, I already have gotten this money now.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121445043#Comment_121445043

Stunned they gave the credits to you.

You seem aware what you have to do. Let the ESB deal with it and follow whatever they advise. I assume you pay then for energy before you joined and then BGE for after?

Happyhouse22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121445052#Comment_121445052

I’m not sure it was the actual credits I got. It was a cheque to their value from ESB networks with a hand written note of apology from missing out on them because of ESB error. I imagine the money came from ESB rather than the government.

Thats what I’m thinking, I really should be paying Bord Gais for the the energy used since joining them and then ESB networks/ electric Ireland for energy used previously.

Another thing I forgot to mention, is the date which Bord Gais starting billing me from is “coincidentally” the date on which their electricity prices went up by 34% 😂 . Technically immaterial to the rest of the story but another annoying detail when you have already lost confidence in a company!

JVince

I've seen this happen and have experienced something a little similar recently that just got rectified. In my case it was human error in Gas Networks that entered an incorrect GPRN, that was a real gprn in a nearby building that was unoccupied. It took 5 months to sort out but only because I kept at Energia looking for updates. Even when it got corrected, it still stook 3 weeks to be fully transferred.

I can't see any element of a scam. The OP has had the runaround and my guess is it started with a human error.

I suggest the OP spends a couple of hours creating a file and sending this file to the supplier and ESB networks and then copy in the energy regulator.

The file will have the following

Date you commenced in the property.

Meter reading of that date

Then firstly calculate approx. standing charges at a rate of 60c per day + vat for the time from the date you moved in to the date of the large bill. Accept that you have no dispute with this standing charge.

Then with the photo evidence you have, print 3 copies of each photo + the date the photo was taken. Work out the number of units used in each period between photo. Find out the approx. unit price at that time and provide this as an approx usage charge. Repeat for each period you have a photo of.

Add in details and ideally some form of print out showing you tried to open. Example is email correspondence.

Give a total calculation and say this is the amount you are willing to pay to make a full and final settlement of the account.

Send a copy by post to ESB networks (let them know you are sending this for reference) and to energy regulator (inform them that you may be opening a complaint if it is not settled).

For the copy you send to Bord Gais, let them know you have sent a copy to ESB networks and also to the regulator and ask them for their final response.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465506#Comment_121465506

The OP suggested he should refuse to pay for any electricity used in the opening post prior to joining BG. This was one year into the house. Thats trying to game the system.

How you acted and how the OP acted is very different. You got it resolved in 5 months. Its took the OP 2 years. Its really very different. You acted with integrity.

JVince

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465783#Comment_121465783

I'd refuse too if they tried to charge current exceptionally high rates for 2021 use especially if I had tried several times to regulate it. You are talking approx. 16c-18c a unit versus 45c-50c a unit. Would you pay 3 times the rate in such circumstances?

If you read the original post, it is out of exasperation rather than malice that he was suggesting he would not pay.

Mine resolved in 5 months because its a large warehouse & office building and my gas bill is about €3k a month at this time of year, so I was very proactive and still I faced utter incompetence.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465783#Comment_121465783

As they say, play silly games, win silly prizes.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121470525#Comment_121470525

Exasperation implies the guy did something. He did very little. It doesn't take 2 years to resolve this sort of stuff. "I heard nothing for 9 months" - he did nothing for 9 months.

If he has timestamped photos of the meter at different points in the year, he should of course pay the rate at the time and not the rate now. It would be the highest rate between photos though (one would imagine).

As Jim2007 says, he played a silly game and this is the consequence. The only difference is that you believe he was acting in good faith, I believe he wasn't. If he was acting in good faith, he would have regular photos of the meter as common sense would tell you to keep track of it as the rates increased every few months.